It is very difficult to maintain your stance in the face of 'studies' and 'research' and 'hospital policy' and 'midwives' agreeing with the quack. Unless you are very strong, and have very supportive support people and a sympathici midwife, don't present to hospital until bub's head is out. It is very frustrating to give the info, support and advocate for the woman, only to have the dr say a few words, and mum back down. Maureen
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@;acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Vicki Chan Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Spam Alert: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC The decision always rests with the mother!! And more power to the midwife who is willing to put all on the line to give the woman the information, support, and love she deserves. Vicki -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@;acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Jenny Balnaves Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Thank you for your reply Lynne. Unfortunately, the model of care where I practice is 95% medical, so consequently, options are rather limited. All obstetricians here would veto the choice of VBAC...litigation being foremost in their minds. One GP incorporates Team Midwifery into his practice, but even there we are still "under his banner" so to speak. A midwifery model of care has been bandied about for many years here. This has been met with great resistance from the obstetricians who view the model as being one where they get to clean up the mess as one so delicatly put it.(We should wish!) This particular woman has been advised that the only option was caesarian section. She has seen her obstetrician privately throughout her pregnancy and as a consequence, our only 'access' to her is when she was admitted as I said at 36 weeks gestation, although the cry..."Its never too late" could be used in this instance. She is certainly aware of her options though, being advised by the midwives who have met her since her admission. Unfortunately, because she would have to change hospitals (none of the other obstetricians would take on her care at this stage, in support of the other obstetrician), it is all too much of a bother to have to address the issues of booking else where etc etc apparently, and woe betide the midwife who is found culpable of directing this woman to an alternative hospital, let alone another doctor! Hope this is not too long winded. Regards, <br><br><br><html><DIV><FONT color=#cc3333 face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive" size=5>Jenny <IMG height=12 src="http://graphics.hotmail.com/emrose.gif"; width=12></FONT></DIV></html> >From: "Lynne Staff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC >Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:03:48 +1000 > >Hi Jenny - How does this woman feel about the decision to have another >caesarean? Does she know that she is entitled to a second (and third...) >opinion? Or will she be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire >with the other opinions she seeks (if all of the obs are like-minded)? And >not just obs either. I remember many years ago at a homebirth meeting, a >woman approached me who had had three caesareans and asked me whether I >thought she could labour and give birth vaginally, and I said "No, it is >unlikely". In my ignorance and naievety, and working within a system where >no woman was encouraged, nor mostly "allowed" to have a "trial of scar" >(ugh...), I did not know, nor had the experience to support a woman through >this experience. I had therefore never seen what women could do, except for >those who were dripped and monitored continually and told if they hadn't >dilated x centimeters by x time they would 'need' a caesarean. Talk about >setting them up for one! > >Anyway, years have gone by when I have been able to be with women >choosing >this option and yes, it was at home. I got to know women who had done >amazing things to get their babies born, and I remember telling ab ob I >know about these experiences, and others I had heard about. He asked me why >he had never heard of women achieving these incredible births after one and >more caesareans. I can remember just looking at him, and asking back "Would >you or colleagues of yours have listened to them had they requested support >for this?" He could not answer me. > >I was at two amazing births a fortnight ago where the woman had had >previous caesareans - I am fortunate enough to work in a hospital now with >people who support the concept of vaginal birth following caesarean, and >our "stats" are exceptional. But what is far more important than stats is >how the woman planning to give birth vaginally feels about it, whether she >gives birth vaginally or by caesarean (or as a friend of mine and I hear >"from above, or from below" - WHAT mesages does that give!!!). > >She is the 'liver' of the experience - the giver of birth, and what she >feels as she moves through it and into the rest of her life may be cruicial >to how she sees herself, her relationship with the infant, with her >partner, and with her other children. And incidentally - I have learned >more than you could know, or I could have possibly believed from these >women - many go through agony before they get to the point of actually >giving birth, and the agony begins long before the labour...and often >doesn't include the labour either. > >Some women go a long way, both emotionally and distance wise to find >that >support, but it is a fact that most have no or little support from family >or friends for their decision, and less from the medical profession on the >whole. A well know ob in Bris is often quoted as saying "you will never get >sued for doing a caesarean but you will if you don't". I happen to >disagree, and the really unfortunate thing about this is that either a >woman or a baby, or both, will have to die or be badly injured during the >course of an uneccessary caesarean for this to occur. > >My tuppence worth.... > > > >----- Original Message ----- > From: Jenny Balnaves > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:22 AM > Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC > > > > Just a query...the hospital I work in has a fairly high caesarian >section rate unfortunately. I admitted a woman for rest last week (at 37 >weeks) who is expecting twins...second pregnancy...first was an elective >luscs because of 'high head at term'- otherwise known as cephalo pelvic >disproportion. > > This time, both twins are cephalic, first twin's presenting part is >very >low in the pelvis and is well and truly engaged. Is such a shame that this >woman's obstetrician will not even discuss the concept of vaginal birth >after caesarian don't you think? > > I welcome any comments anyone would like to make please. > > Regards, > > > > Jenny > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. Click Here -- >This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or >unsubscribe. _________________________________________________________________ Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband. Join now! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
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