Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-19 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Andy Farnell wrote: This is pure superstition and folklore, but I'm sure it had something to do with using [knob] objects. Just a feeling in my bones. Well, that's possibly a very good guess. Now if only someone could look at [knob]'s code, to find out what might be wrong

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-09 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: I think I already used the cuisine metaphor here... My Italian genes always point me to that... Along the lines of Mathieu's (?) topic in the dataflow IRC about ready-made solutions. « Readymade Solutions Require Readymade Problems; For Everything Els

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread João Pais
Randomly disappearing boxes, and generally, canvas appearance that stops reflecting canvas content — wasn't that a big WINDOWS®-only bug in Pd a few years ago ? No idea what the problem was. Does that still happen to anyone ? I've used Pd 99,% of my time in windows, and don't ever remember

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Marco Donnarumma wrote: I agree one can freely complain on his own blog, but, hey, fact is you're still using a free software and the license is quite clear about it. No warranty, if it doesn't work as you expect go on for Max. Without bothering yourself and the others. If

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread Andy Farnell
I saw it quite recently. A student showed me a patch where objects kept disappearing. IIRC it would have been on a Mac with OSX 10.6 running whatever was the extended release available end October 2010 I said is was probably a graphics bug and to reinstall. AFAIK it went away. This is pure sup

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, João Pais wrote: Randomly disappearing boxes, and generally, canvas appearance that stops reflecting canvas content — wasn't that a big WINDOWS®-only bug in Pd a few years ago ? No idea what the problem was. Does that still happen to anyone ? I've used Pd 99,% of my tim

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings when they send someone else a patch. I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I have done projects that u

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Miller Puckette wrote: On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 04:45:09PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: Is that because of the version numbers ? They always begin with a zero. I never thought of that... It seems to be generalised all over pd : nearly all versioning of externals and abst

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: On 2011-03-08 16:46, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: It's split over two tickets because I don't really understand the difference between the patch tracker and the bug tracker. btw, a "bug" issue can be changed into a "patch" issue. Yeah, but I wouldn't

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread IOhannes m zmoelnig
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-03-08 16:46, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: > On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Matt Barber wrote: > >> Which reminds me: there used to be a problem with [delwrite~] where it >> would allocate its memory when the patch containing it loaded, based >> on the sample

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Matt Barber wrote: Which reminds me: there used to be a problem with [delwrite~] where it would allocate its memory when the patch containing it loaded, based on the sample rate active at the time, such that if you switched Pd to a higher sample rate after the patch loaded,

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I have done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless the sampling rate is set correctly. Therefore its an essential property of the pa

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner
On Mar 8, 2011, at 4:43 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The preferred way is to set them in your patch

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread Matt Barber
You can definite make persistent audio interface settings.  The preferred way is to set them in your patch. >>> >>> Preferred by whom ? >>> >>> I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings >>> when they send someone else a patch. >> >> I guess you don't work in anyth

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread Marco Donnarumma
Besides the unspecified bugs and crashes, I think what's overstated in that blog post is the brave comparison and generalization between OS and proprietary software. Imho it's fairly non-sense, even more 'cause not backed up by specifications or even simple ideas. I agree one can freely complain o

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread Lorenzo Sutton
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The preferred way is to set them in your patch. Preferred by whom ? I can't picture anyone wantin

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread Lorenzo Sutton
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mar 7, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Peter Kirn wrote: Okay, I'm with others here - what is Chris on this time? I can see three complaints: 1. Ugly UI (fine.) 2. Lack of persistence of audio interface settings. Actually, two comments here on that -- first, of course, you

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread Frank Barknecht
Hi, On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 10:46:02PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: > Right. But are some soundcards and/or drivers limited to only certain > sampling rates ? Actually most soundcards only support a limited number of samplerates in their hardware, everything else then requires resampling in s

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread Lorenzo Sutton
chris clepper wrote: I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of beta. I think I already used the cuisine metaphor here... My Italian genes always point me to that... Along the lines of Mathieu's (?) topic in the dataflow IRC about ready-made solutions. And of course it would have bee

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-08 Thread IOhannes m zmoelnig
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-03-08 00:43, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I have > done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless > the sampling rate is set correctly. Therefore its a

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Jonathan Wilkes
--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: > From: Mathieu Bouchard > Subject: Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on > analogindustries.com > To: "Max" > Cc: "PD list" > Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 4:34 AM > On Tue, 8 Mar 2

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: For Audio API (OSS, ALSA, etc.): You can choose the respective menu item, then set it up in the dialog window that pops up. Click "Save all settings" to... save all settings. Isn't that persistent audio interface settings? D'oh, yeah, but I don't

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Max wrote: just to throw in a equally unspecific report. Yes. It's important to answer rumours using rumours. There's a prof who told me that she couldn't teach Pd, and it was because of its security holes. Then she also told me that Pd doesn't have any video support. Af

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Jonathan Wilkes
--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner > Subject: Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, > analogindustries.com > To: "Mathieu Bouchard" > Cc: "Peter Kirn" , pd-list@iem.at > Date: Tuesday,

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Max
no doubt aware that user >> bug reports are vital to fixing problems. I think he could have done a bit >> more to help his situation. >> >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:45 AM, pierlu wrote: >> Hi everybody. >> >> I regularly read the blog @ analogindu

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread João Pais
Randomly disappearing boxes, and generally, canvas appearance that stops reflecting canvas content — wasn't that a big WINDOWS®-only bug in Pd a few years ago ? No idea what the problem was. Does that still happen to anyone ? I've used Pd 99,% of my time in windows, and don't ever remember t

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner
On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The preferred way is to set them in your patch. Preferred by whom ? I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio s

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The preferred way is to set them in your patch. Preferred by whom ? I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings when they send someone else a patch. IOhannes

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Jonathan Wilkes
--- On Mon, 3/7/11, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner > Subject: Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on > analogindustries.com > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" > Cc: "chris clepper" , "Mathieu Bouchard" >

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Mar 7, 2011, at 5:07 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: But Gridflow goes up to 9. So just make sure to install Gridflow with Pd, and you should then be able to instantiate up to nine "simple" objects without Pd randomly crashing on you: Wait, are

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner
On Mar 7, 2011, at 5:07 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Mon, 3/7/11, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard Subject: Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com To: "chris clepper" Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 1

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner
On Mar 7, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Peter Kirn wrote: Okay, I'm with others here - what is Chris on this time? I can see three complaints: 1. Ugly UI (fine.) 2. Lack of persistence of audio interface settings. Actually, two comments here on that -- first, of course, you can set this as a command-li

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Jonathan Wilkes
--- On Mon, 3/7/11, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: > From: Mathieu Bouchard > Subject: Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on > analogindustries.com > To: "chris clepper" > Cc: pd-list@iem.at > Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 10:45 PM > On Mon, 7

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Miller Puckette
I never thought of that... cheers M On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 04:45:09PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: > On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, chris clepper wrote: > > >I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of beta. > > Is that because of the version numbers ? They always begin with a zero. > >

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, chris clepper wrote: I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of beta. Is that because of the version numbers ? They always begin with a zero. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 V

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread chris clepper
I just emailed Chris to see if he would send along crash logs and info. Maybe some bugs will get fixed from this. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:50 PM, chris clepper wrote: > It's a missed opportunity for everyone involved. Here was a developer of > audio plugins with a lot of experience who could ha

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Peter Kirn wrote: Anyway, I understand now - Chris is complaining generally about stability, not about vst~. It's troubling, but he's not going into specifics, so it's hard to know how to respond. I am genuinely curious about what's causing his troubles; I suspect it isn't

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread chris clepper
I get asked by people if Pd is ever coming out of beta. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: > On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Andy Farnell wrote: > > A "trial" version eh? Let's see how that comparison is working out in 30 >> days. >> > > I've been running a trial version of pd for 8 or

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread chris clepper
It's a missed opportunity for everyone involved. Here was a developer of audio plugins with a lot of experience who could have provided a lot of valuable feedback, but chose not to do so. It doesn't take that much time to fire off the crash log to the list or post something on Sourceforge, plus h

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Andy Farnell wrote: A "trial" version eh? Let's see how that comparison is working out in 30 days. I've been running a trial version of pd for 8 or 9 years now. I'm waiting for it to expire. ___ | Mathi

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Peter Kirn
Re-posting as my previous post got scrubbed - sorry, Thunderbird is convinced Pd-list archives are rich HTML. Doh. ;) Anyway, I understand now - Chris is complaining generally about stability, not about vst~. It's troubling, but he's not going into specifics, so it's hard to know how to respon

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Andy Farnell
A "trial" version eh? Let's see how that comparison is working out in 30 days. a. On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 17:45:12 +0100 pierlu wrote: > Hi everybody. > > I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com, and today an > interesting post about pd vs max/msp sta

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Peter Kirn
Okay, I'm with others here - what is Chris on this time? I can see three complaints: 1. Ugly UI (fine.) 2. Lack of persistence of audio interface settings. Actually, two comments here on that -- first, of course, you can set this as a command-line argument,

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread pierlu
:pie...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>>    Hi everybody. >>> >>>    I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com >>> <http://analogindustries.com>, and today an >>>    interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel app

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread cyrille henry
industries.com <http://analogindustries.com>, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared. You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902 To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be fairly stable for my

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner
. On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:45 AM, pierlu wrote: Hi everybody. I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared. You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread Mario
the software for years..well, just my opinion 2011/3/7 pierlu > Hi everybody. > > I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com, and today an > interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared. > > You can read about it here > http://www.analogindustri

Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread chris clepper
ierlu wrote: > Hi everybody. > > I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com, and today an > interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared. > > You can read about it here > http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902 > > To

[PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on analogindustries.com

2011-03-07 Thread pierlu
Hi everybody. I regularly read the blog @ analogindustries.com, and today an interesting post about pd vs max/msp stability on macintel appeared. You can read about it here http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/entry.php?blogid=1299508451902 To be honest, I always found pd on PPC macs to be

Re: [PD] Pd vs GUI (Was Re: pd and multi-core processors)

2010-04-07 Thread Matteo Sisti Sette
András Murányi escribió: On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Matteo Sisti Sette mailto:matteosistise...@gmail.com>> wrote: > I'd just like to add that the same happens to MIDI with DSP off on > a rather strong machine (Opteron 148 @ 2200). In which sense "the same happens"? Do you

Re: [PD] Pd vs GUI (Was Re: pd and multi-core processors)

2010-04-07 Thread Husk 00
2010/4/7 András Murányi : > > Sorry i meant that giving too much job (in zero logical time) to the GUI > has an impact on MIDI timing. > > Andras Hi, What I noticed in a few project where I was using a heavy GUI and a midi controller was a big delay in the midi signal transmission. I always sol

Re: [PD] Pd vs GUI (Was Re: pd and multi-core processors)

2010-04-07 Thread András Murányi
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Matteo Sisti Sette < matteosistise...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I'd just like to add that the same happens to MIDI with DSP off on > > a rather strong machine (Opteron 148 @ 2200). > > In which sense "the same happens"? Do you mean that sending a MIDI message > takes mo

Re: [PD] Pd vs GUI (Was Re: pd and multi-core processors)

2010-04-07 Thread Matteo Sisti Sette
> I'd just like to add that the same happens to MIDI with DSP off on > a rather strong machine (Opteron 148 @ 2200). In which sense "the same happens"? Do you mean that sending a MIDI message takes more CPU time than it should? -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistise...@gmail.com http://www.matteo

[PD] Pd vs GUI (Was Re: pd and multi-core processors)

2010-04-06 Thread András Murányi
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Matteo Sisti Sette < matteosistise...@gmail.com> wrote: > (this is a little OT respect to the thread) > > > nicely enough, pd's graphical interface and the actual process, > > are separate threads, > > The communication between the engine of Pd ("Pd") and the graphi

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2007-01-04 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Le Samedi 30 Décembre 2006 23:27, Mathieu Bouchard a écrit : But how does the type of those cords represent anything else than limitations of the implementation? Why should all the limitations of the implementation be hidden ? If each limitation,

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2007-01-03 Thread vade
perhaps one solution is a set of objects (well documented) that allows datatypes to easily be transmuted in ways that are clear and easy to use for their new incarnation. Not that my vote counts, but having clear separation between datatypes and how objects behave is a boon. It makes for qu

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2007-01-03 Thread Cyrille . Damez
Le Samedi 30 Décembre 2006 23:27, Mathieu Bouchard a écrit : > But how does the type of those cords represent anything else than > limitations of the implementation? Why should all the limitations of the implementation be hidden ? Be it under the guise of unexplainable behavior or inefficient pa

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2007-01-01 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner
On Dec 31, 2006, at 5:09 PM, carmen wrote: Yes, a lot of this kind of stuff is done for efficiency's sake, like messages vs. audio rate data. also for efficieny's sake (on the implementation side), some of the newer graphical dataflow / patcher engines consider them one and the same, and

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2007-01-01 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner
On Dec 31, 2006, at 4:32 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Sun, 31 Dec 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Dec 30, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: But how does the type of those cords represent anything else than limitations of the implementation? How does the choice of consider

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2007-01-01 Thread Patco
Frank Barknecht a écrit : Hallo, Patco hat gesagt: // Patco wrote: Patco a écrit : The most deluding stuff is $0 for my concern, it's very harassing to not being able to use it in messages. all the other craps are quite tolerable here with last versions. [i $0] | [$1( is hara

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2007-01-01 Thread Frank Barknecht
Hallo, Patco hat gesagt: // Patco wrote: > Patco a écrit : > >The most deluding stuff is $0 for my concern, it's very harassing to > >not being able to use it in messages. > >all the other craps are quite tolerable here with last versions. > [i $0] > | > [$1( > > is harassing/boring too. What a

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-31 Thread Patco
Patco a écrit : The most deluding stuff is $0 for my concern, it's very harassing to not being able to use it in messages. all the other craps are quite tolerable here with last versions. [i $0] | [$1( is harassing/boring too. __

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-31 Thread Patco
Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : Yes, a lot of this kind of stuff is done for efficiency's sake, like messages vs. audio rate data. Its hard to get around that. But the strong types of symbol vs. float are an human-computer interface question. The most deluding stuff is $0 for my concern,

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-31 Thread carmen
> Yes, a lot of this kind of stuff is done for efficiency's sake, like messages > vs. audio rate data. also for efficieny's sake (on the implementation side), some of the newer graphical dataflow / patcher engines consider them one and the same, and solve the rate-efficiency issue by allowing a

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-31 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Dec 30, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: But how does the type of those cords represent anything else than limitations of the implementation? How does the choice of considering those things as distinct types, and the choice to not

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-31 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Dec 30, 2006, at 5:14 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: Have you read what I wrote to you, about "strongly typed" being vague wording? I think the wikipedia page does a pretty good job of describing it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_typing T

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-31 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner
On Dec 30, 2006, at 5:14 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Pd is strongly typed, so floats and signal data are different types, just like floats and symbols. What is a type? (without just giving a list of the existing types in pd) What does "

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-31 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner
On Dec 30, 2006, at 10:41 PM, David NG McCallum wrote: On 27/12/06, Tim Blechmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Do you mean that it would be difficult to figure out what's a DSP object > and what's not, in terms of figuring out what's in the DSP chain? from the user point of view, i think,

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-31 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner
On Dec 30, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Thu, 28 Dec 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Much more importantly, the thick coords represent that a different data type is passing thru the coords. It's not really an issue of representing the implementation, instead it's repres

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-30 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Sat, 30 Dec 2006, David NG McCallum wrote: If we're to think about the metaphor of dataflow languages, which is essentially modelled after electronics and circuits (and I'm thinking about analogue circuits, although I'm sure a similar argument could be made for digital), then there should b

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-30 Thread David NG McCallum
On 27/12/06, Tim Blechmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Do you mean that it would be difficult to figure out what's a DSP object > and what's not, in terms of figuring out what's in the DSP chain? from the user point of view, i think, it's a good idea, to have a specific separation between dsp

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-30 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Thu, 28 Dec 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Much more importantly, the thick coords represent that a different data type is passing thru the coords. It's not really an issue of representing the implementation, instead it's representing that those two types of coords can not be intermix

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-30 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Thu, 28 Dec 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Pd is strongly typed, so floats and signal data are different types, just like floats and symbols. What is a type? (without just giving a list of the existing types in pd) What does "strongly typed" mean? Have you read what I wrote to you, ab

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-28 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner
On Dec 27, 2006, at 12:01 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: I have some newbie questions here... why is it that [*] is only for floats, whereas if you want to multiply two signals one has to use [*~] ? Pd is strongly typed, so floats and signal data are different types, just like floats and s

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-28 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner
On Dec 27, 2006, at 4:46 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, Tim Blechmann wrote: Matju wrote: why is it that [*] is only for floats, whereas if you want to multiply two signals one has to use [*~] ? why do patch cords have different width? Because Miller added that in 0.35

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-28 Thread Roman Haefeli
--- Tim Blechmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > > > and why is expr~ so slow? > > > > I don't know, this might deserve a look (or a > rewrite). > > sample-wise dsp processing is usually way slower > than block-wise. iirc, > i read something about a factor 2 ... afaik, [expr~] does non-recursi

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-28 Thread Tim Blechmann
> >> If there was no DSP chain, or if the chain included all of the non-DSP, > >> we might delay such determination until later... (but should we?) > > if there was no dsp chain, it would be easier to utilize several audio > > threads (see jackdmp) ... caching would definitely be worse, though ..

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-28 Thread Tim Blechmann
> > why is there no |!/~| object like in max/msp? > > I don't know. Where's the [swap] that can support signals? ;) well, a |swap| object itself is not a really good solution without an optimizing compiler for the dsp chain ... > > and why is expr~ so slow? > > I don't know, this might deserve

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-27 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, Tim Blechmann wrote: from the user point of view, i think, it's a good idea, to have a specific separation between dsp and messaging, because both work with very different concepts. But of the difference between dsp and messaging, which ones of the very differences of th

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-27 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, Tim Blechmann wrote: Matju wrote: why is it that [*] is only for floats, whereas if you want to multiply two signals one has to use [*~] ? why do patch cords have different width? Because Miller added that in 0.35 or 0.36 or some other release. But more deeply: because i

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-27 Thread Tim Blechmann
On Wed, 2006-12-27 at 15:40 -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: > On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, Tim Blechmann wrote: > > > well, does polymorphism improve the expressive power in terms of > > determination between messaging and dsp? > > I can't answer because I can't guess what you mean by "determination" > h

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-27 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, Charles Henry wrote: What about efficiency? There may be certain advantages to defining the data types, and constraining _inlets_ and atom types during editing, rather than at run time. (that's just a guess) Yes, it's an easy way to get such efficiency, and for example,

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-27 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, Tim Blechmann wrote: well, does polymorphism improve the expressive power in terms of determination between messaging and dsp? I can't answer because I can't guess what you mean by "determination" here. Do you mean that it would be difficult to figure out what's a DSP o

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-27 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, carmen wrote: Matju wrote: why is it that [*] is only for floats, whereas if you want to multiply two signals one has to use [*~] ? And then why is it that [*~] can multiply a signal by a float, but [*] can't do that? because according to Pd rules its not OK to confuse the

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-27 Thread Tim Blechmann
On Wed, 2006-12-27 at 13:43 -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: > On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, Georg Holzmann wrote: > > > Hm ... what do you want to say ? You want polymorphism ? > > I say what I say. I'm asking, would we prefer polymorphism in this > particular circumstance, and why or why not. > > (Of co

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-27 Thread Charles Henry
What about efficiency? There may be certain advantages to defining the data types, and constraining _inlets_ and atom types during editing, rather than at run time. (that's just a guess) > Hm ... what do you want to say ? You want polymorphism ? I say what I say. I'm asking, would we prefer

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-27 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006, Georg Holzmann wrote: Hm ... what do you want to say ? You want polymorphism ? I say what I say. I'm asking, would we prefer polymorphism in this particular circumstance, and why or why not. (Of course I want polymorphism, but I don't want to push that into the questio

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-27 Thread carmen
> I have some newbie questions here... > > why is it that [*] is only for floats, whereas if you want to multiply two > signals one has to use [*~] ? > And then why is it that [*~] can multiply a signal by a float, but [*] can't > do that? because according to Pd rules its not OK to confuse the

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-27 Thread Georg Holzmann
Hallo! Hm ... what do you want to say ? You want polymorphism ? LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-27 Thread Tim Blechmann
some follow-ups: > why is it that [*] is only for floats, whereas if you want to multiply two > signals one has to use [*~] ? why do patch cords have different width? > And then why is it that [*~] can multiply a signal by a float, but [*] > can't do that? why can |*~| multiply two signals, b

Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-27 Thread Kyle Klipowicz
Haha at first I didn't see who posted this and thought, 'what a newb...' Now I'm thinking that some philosophic sparring of Pd fundamentals is about to begin. I'll make some popcorn and watch this one from the sidelines... ~Kyle On 12/27/06, Mathieu Bouchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I ha

[PD] [*] vs [*~]

2006-12-27 Thread Mathieu Bouchard
I have some newbie questions here... why is it that [*] is only for floats, whereas if you want to multiply two signals one has to use [*~] ? And then why is it that [*~] can multiply a signal by a float, but [*] can't do that? And then why is it that [*~] can't multiply a float by a signa