Re: [PD] expr alternative

community view' here, as i > > feel very uncomfortable about pushing this issue if i am going against the > > general consensus. > > > > to outline so far, there seem to be 3 main options: > > > > 1) leave expr as GPL > > 2) take u

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-11-04 à 08:52:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : No, I'm serious.  I'll pay $200 for a replacement set of such objects where numbers are by default interpreted as floats like the rest of Pd. Oh, you mean 3/2==1.5 in the context of what gets written in [expr] boxes... for some reason, I did

Re: [PD] expr alternative

- Original Message - > From: Mathieu Bouchard > To: Jonathan Wilkes > Cc: Olivier B ; i go bananas ; > PD-List > Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 11:39 AM > Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative > > Le 2011-11-04 à 07:16:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : > &

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-11-04 à 07:16:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : I'll put up $200 for a 3-clause-BSD-licensed [expr] family replacement where 3 / 2 = 1.5 3/2 = 1.5 ? Is that another « private joke » ? Olivier a écrit : Just to say that, even if my patchs are published under GPL, as I definitely need my

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-11-04 à 16:28:00, i go bananas a écrit : "7.1    Delivery of Freely Available Licensed Applications via the App Store; Certificates If Your Application qualifies as a Licensed Application, it is eligible for delivery to end-users via the App Store by Apple and/or an Apple Subsidiary. I

Re: [PD] expr alternative

> >From: Olivier B >To: i go bananas >Cc: Jonathan Wilkes ; PD-List >Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 4:29 AM >Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative > > >2011/11/4 i go bananas > >apple just rang me.  >> >>as andy pre

Re: [PD] expr alternative

PL > 2) take up Mr Yadegari's offer to re-license under the LGPL > 3) raise some money or incentive for Mr Yadegari to re-write expr code to > be BSD compliant 3) I offer 10€... who's next ? > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Olivier B wrote

Re: [PD] expr alternative

nder the LGPL 3) raise some money or incentive for Mr Yadegari to re-write expr code to be BSD compliant On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Olivier B wrote: > 2011/11/2 Jonathan Wilkes > >> > >> >From: Olivier B >> >To: i go bana

Re: [PD] expr alternative

2011/11/2 Jonathan Wilkes > > > >From: Olivier B > >To: i go bananas > >Cc: PD-List > >Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 8:01 AM > >Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative > > > > > >Hi list... > > > >

Re: [PD] expr alternative

> >From: Olivier B >To: i go bananas >Cc: PD-List >Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 8:01 AM >Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative > > >Hi list... > >Just to say that, even if my patchs are published under GPL, as I definitely >

Re: [PD] expr alternative

in vexp.c. >> >> There is also the following list of authors: >> * Authors: Maurizio De Cecco, Francois Dechelle, Enzo Maggi, Norbert >> Schnell. >> >> -Jonathan >> >> -- >> *From:* i go bananas >> *To:* Hans-Chr

Re: [PD] expr alternative

is also the following list of authors: > * Authors: Maurizio De Cecco, Francois Dechelle, Enzo Maggi, Norbert > Schnell. > > -Jonathan > > -- > *From:* i go bananas > *To:* Hans-Christoph Steiner > *Cc:* PD-List ; Georg Bosch > *Sent:* Mo

Re: [PD] expr alternative

>From: i go bananas >To: Hans-Christoph Steiner >Cc: PD-List ; Georg Bosch >Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 11:04 AM >Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative > > >i just got a reply and they are reviewing my question, so hopefully we can >find out if they currently allow

Re: [PD] expr alternative

also, i think i am going to get slapped around the face again for this, but how impossible would it be to get IRCAM to grant a BSD license for the certain section of code used in [expr] ? i know people here are going to disagree, and yes, i can see your point, but look at this: "jMax is a new im

Re: [PD] expr alternative

i just got a reply and they are reviewing my question, so hopefully we can find out if they currently allow LGPL. however, even if the do, i PERSONALLY still think a BSD [expr] would be much better. i know there were a lot of heated comments in this thread defending GPL, but if the author of the

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Another side of it is that the GPL and LGPL do not allow additional restrictions to be placed on the code. The VLC and GNU Go complaints as I understood them were specifically about the Apple App Store placing additional restrictions on the code. So that would affect LGPL and GPL alike. An a

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-10-31 à 23:49:00, i go bananas a écrit : Also, i have already contacted a friend who works for a company making high profile iOS applications, and from what he is saying LGPL is OK.  it seems the main problem with plain GPL is that apple doesn't want to release their own surrounding co

Re: [PD] expr alternative

i just called a couple of apple numbers. first one had me on hold for 10 minutes so i gave up, 2nd one was useless. BUT third one was a rather helpful lady whose name i now have and she has issued me a 'case number' so my question is now listed in their system at least, so hopefully i can get th

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Sorry about the South Park bit Georg, I was trying to be too clever and do a snotty thing, making a scathing wise-guy commentary on a company and community, while not "naming any names". As a believer in plain communication I should have the courage to just come out and say it: Apple are a

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Am 24.10.2011 um 11:55 schrieb Andy Farnell: On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:54:59 +0900 i go bananas wrote: What makes you think its okay to ask someone to reconsider a carefully made moral decision simply for your convenience?<< I thought it would be ok to ask at least? Would it really be that

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Emailing is a good start. A better way to get their attention is to file a bug report. .hc On Oct 27, 2011, at 10:15 AM, i go bananas wrote: well, i have taken the first step towards harrassing apple. this is the next page i was sent to after i sent the mail: " Thank You Thank you for

Re: [PD] expr alternative

I know it takes a fair amount of faith, but you could try and contact Steve Jobs directly. Pierre 2011/10/27 i go bananas > well, i have taken the first step towards harrassing apple. > > this is the next page i was sent to after i sent the mail: > > " > Thank You > > Thank you for taking the t

Re: [PD] expr alternative

well, i have taken the first step towards harrassing apple. this is the next page i was sent to after i sent the mail: " Thank You Thank you for taking the time to contact us. If you do not receive a response from an Apple employee, we regret that we are unable to process your request. Please n

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:00:55 +0900 i go bananas wrote: > if people want to talk politics in a thread started by a person with > "bananas" in their name, then what do they expect? LOL. Well there you go. Welcome to the fruit basket. > > get back to occupying wall street you hippies! I thin

Re: [PD] expr alternative

if people want to talk politics in a thread started by a person with "bananas" in their name, then what do they expect? get back to occupying wall street you hippies! ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.pur

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 17:52:26 +0900 i go bananas wrote: > oh FFS. This is for _your_ sake. Dismissing the implications of the coversation you started seems a little ungrateful, if you don't mind me saying so. -- Andy Farnell ___ Pd-list@iem.at mai

Re: [PD] expr alternative

oh FFS. can all the politcal activists just leave this thread alone now? aren't you all meant to be occupying wall street anyway? as Max already pointed out, Shadrokh himself wanted expr to be BSD from the start, so all the political/moral/religious discussions about GPL and blah blah blah, just

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Wed, 2011-10-26 at 17:04 -0200, Ricardo Fabbri wrote: > 1) if you want someone to change their licensing, at least be willing > to offer them some cash. basically, you buy the new licensing. this > part is not free! I would go as far as saying it's unpolite to ask to > switch a license without

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-10-26 à 17:04:00, Ricardo Fabbri a écrit : 3) Colloquy IRC chat client is an example of a GPL software that has a BSD core and mobile version. Not sure if that's because the authors are the copyright holders so they can switch licensing as they please. It looks fairly clear that this

Re: [PD] expr alternative

My 2c: 1) if you want someone to change their licensing, at least be willing to offer them some cash. basically, you buy the new licensing. this part is not free! I would go as far as saying it's unpolite to ask to switch a license without offering money. 2) If you write a clone, be original lest

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Oct 26, 2011, at 1:20 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote: On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 08:51:23AM +0800, Simon Wise wrote: On 26/10/11 01:29, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: The Apple App Store is incompatible with the GPL and LGPL, from what I understand. Getting Apple to make their App Store compatibl

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Am 26.10.2011 um 05:28 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: > On Oct 25, 2011, at 8:51 PM, Simon Wise wrote: >> On 26/10/11 01:29, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: >> >>> The Apple App Store is incompatible with the GPL and LGPL, from what I >>> understand. Getting Apple to make their App Store compatible

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > little documentation or support whatsoever-- not to mention hardware like > Apple's > which gets periodic firmware updates specifically to break compatibility with > anything other than Itunes.  This is what I mean by anti-eco

Re: [PD] expr alternative

- Original Message - > From: Marvin Humphrey > To: Simon Wise > Cc: pd-list@iem.at > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:20 AM > Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 08:51:23AM +0800, Simon Wise wrote: >> On 26/10/11 01:29, H

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 08:51:23AM +0800, Simon Wise wrote: > On 26/10/11 01:29, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > >> The Apple App Store is incompatible with the GPL and LGPL, from what I >> understand. Getting Apple to make their App Store compatible with the GPL and >> LGPL is another much better

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-10-25 à 23:28:00, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : They also contribute to gcc, which is GPL software, and its their main compiler for both Mac OS X and iOS. Then came iOS, and they got crazy. In XCode 4.2, they removed the option named just «GCC», leaving the choice between «GCC LLVM

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-10-26 à 10:32:00, Simon Wise a écrit : Their corporate strategy regarding creating and maintaining a monopoly on as many technologies as they can, and taking a percentage of every transaction within those monopoly platforms is very sensible and reasonable way to maximise profits if you

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Oct 25, 2011, at 8:51 PM, Simon Wise wrote: On 26/10/11 01:29, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: The Apple App Store is incompatible with the GPL and LGPL, from what I understand. Getting Apple to make their App Store compatible with the GPL and LGPL is another much better solution since it

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On 26/10/11 09:53, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: It's worse than that-- they want to lock their customers into using their hardware only in the ways they intend. Ever tried syncing an Ipad with a free software operating system? indeed it is, but I was trying to focus on the open source issue as rel

Re: [PD] expr alternative

- Original Message - > From: Simon Wise > To: pd-list@iem.at > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 8:51 PM > Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative > > On 26/10/11 01:29, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > >> The Apple App Store is incompatible with

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On 26/10/11 01:29, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: The Apple App Store is incompatible with the GPL and LGPL, from what I understand. Getting Apple to make their App Store compatible with the GPL and LGPL is another much better solution since it will work for all GPL and LGPL software. this is o

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-10-25 à 14:02:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : Right, but that punishes the Pd users by making them use Max notation to force floating point math, and it confuses the Max users coming to (or porting patches to) Pd, who learn Pd's float-centrism then are forced to relearn some bizarro vers

Re: [PD] expr alternative

- Original Message - > From: Mathieu Bouchard > To: Jonathan Wilkes > Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner ; Max ; > PD list ; Shahrokh Yadegari > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 3:47 PM > Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative > > Le 2011-10-25 à 12:38:00, Jonathan Wilk

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-10-25 à 12:38:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : It's worth noting that the current [expr] is both "Max-centric"-- because numbers written as integers imply integer math-- and incompatible with Max-- because in object boxes Pd strips the decimal from "1." which is a common idiom in Max to f

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Oct 25, 2011, at 3:38 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: - Original Message - From: Mathieu Bouchard To: Jonathan Wilkes Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner ; Max >; PD list ; Shahrokh Yadegari Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative Le 2011-10-25 à 10:45

Re: [PD] expr alternative

- Original Message - > From: Mathieu Bouchard > To: Jonathan Wilkes > Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner ; Max ; > PD list ; Shahrokh Yadegari > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative > > Le 2011-10-25 à 10:45:00, Jonathan W

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-10-25 à 10:45:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : 2) all the expr objects have a Max-centric view of numbers that clashes with Pd's "everything-is-a-float" philosophy.  (If you don't understand what I mean, matju has written about it on the list and I've also documented it in the revised PDD

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Hey Martin, I haven't heard that before. Do you have any references on the App Store being compatible with the LGPL? I found this write-up on the topic, it makes sense to me, and outlines basically how the App Store is incompatible with the FSF copyleft idea, which is definitely includ

Re: [PD] expr alternative

- Original Message - > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner > To: Max > Cc: PD list ; Shahrokh Yadegari > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 1:29 PM > Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative > > > On Oct 25, 2011, at 1:26 PM, Max wrote: > >> Am 25.10.2011 um 19:

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Oct 25, 2011, at 1:26 PM, Max wrote: Am 25.10.2011 um 19:10 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: On Oct 25, 2011, at 10:15 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: Le 2011-10-25 à 12:19:00, Max a écrit : So what is the situation now that expr could be LGPL instead of GPL? What does that mean for things l

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Am 25.10.2011 um 19:10 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: > On Oct 25, 2011, at 10:15 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: >> Le 2011-10-25 à 12:19:00, Max a écrit : >> >>> So what is the situation now that expr could be LGPL instead of GPL? What >>> does that mean for things like the Apple App Store? >> >>

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Oct 25, 2011, at 10:15 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: Le 2011-10-25 à 12:19:00, Max a écrit : So what is the situation now that expr could be LGPL instead of GPL? What does that mean for things like the Apple App Store? In the end I'm not sure anymore that LGPL would be fine, even though

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-10-25 à 12:19:00, Max a écrit : So what is the situation now that expr could be LGPL instead of GPL? What does that mean for things like the Apple App Store? In the end I'm not sure anymore that LGPL would be fine, even though it does look like Apple ships with LGPL libs. (Though it's

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Update: Shahrokh just wrote me that he has asked IRCAM if they would be okay with releasing the expr code under LGPL. Quote: “I got news from IRCAM that they are willing to release expr code on LGPL. Will that solve the current licensing problems? Max, could you communicate to the list and let

Re: [PD] expr alternative

i am. i probably shouldn't mess round with my mail settings so much. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-10-24 à 20:27:00, Andy Farnell a écrit : It's not a discouragement to Matt to contact the author, Who is Matt ? __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC__

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 07:46:03 -0700 Marvin Humphrey wrote: > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 08:36:39AM +0100, Andy Farnell wrote: > > On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 11:16:18 +0900 > > i go bananas wrote: > > > > > in that case, it might be as simple as a nice email to Shadrokh Yadegari > > > to > > > get his exp

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Am 23.10.2011 um 19:27 schrieb i go bananas: > or has anyone ever tried contacting the original authors and asking them to > change the license so it can fit in with pd's standard BSD ?? I've had the pleasure to meet Shahrokh Yadegari a few weeks back here in Weimar and asked him about just that

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Mon, 2011-10-24 at 15:26 +0100, Andy Farnell wrote: > The thing about a "nice email", no matter how politely and tactfully > you pen it, is that such a request can feel quite uncomfortable. > First it makes the assumption that the programmers choice of licence > was somehow shallow, maybe even a

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 08:36:39AM +0100, Andy Farnell wrote: > On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 11:16:18 +0900 > i go bananas wrote: > > > in that case, it might be as simple as a nice email to Shadrokh Yadegari to > > get his expr for pd license changed to LGPL too?? > > What makes you think its okay to as

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:33:25 +0900 i go bananas wrote: > hi andy - of course i'd be very willing to know your point of view here, > particularly from your firsthand experience. I got an email like that, it kept me awake for some nights. I experienced annoyance, anger, conflict, frustration. Fina

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-10-24 à 17:16:00, i go bananas a écrit : LGPL seems ok on iphone, legally at least. http://multinc.com/2009/08/24/compatibility-between-the-iphone-app-store-and-the-lgpl/ Too much info on the net contradicting each other. I think that we might need legal advice or something that looks

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-10-24 à 16:59:00, i go bananas a écrit : out of interest, what's the deal with pd being used as the audio engine for computer games, like Spore, or whatever?  They don't make the source code available, do they?  Wouldn't those applications also have to avoid [expr] ? yes. _

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-10-24 à 11:16:00, i go bananas a écrit : "jMax is distributed under GNU’s Lesser General Public License" http://jmax.sourceforge.net/ is that the LGPL that mattieu is talking about? My name is Mathieu. I no longer think that the LGPL is ok with the AppStore. in that case, it might be

Re: [PD] expr alternative

hi andy - of course i'd be very willing to know your point of view here, particularly from your firsthand experience. i didn't even know or care a thing at all about licenses until about 2 years ago, and that was just from being employed to do the sound for an iphone app. with my own stuff i have

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:54:59 +0900 i go bananas wrote: > >>What makes you think its okay to ask someone to reconsider a > carefully made moral decision simply for your convenience?<< > > I thought it would be ok to ask at least? Would it really be that bad? Sure. I can only tell you my own exp

Re: [PD] expr alternative - licences

i go bananas wrote: > out of interest, what's the deal with pd being used as the audio engine for > computer games, like Spore, or whatever? They don't make the source code > available, do they? Wouldn't those applications also have to avoid [expr] ? To some extend, that's a point for GPLv3 : cl

Re: [PD] expr alternative

LGPL seems ok on iphone, legally at least. http://multinc.com/2009/08/24/compatibility-between-the-iphone-app-store-and-the-lgpl/ On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 4:59 PM, i go bananas wrote: > >>The GPL has absolutely no restrictions on commerce. You are free to sell > any GPL software however you s

Re: [PD] expr alternative

>>The GPL has absolutely no restrictions on commerce. You are free to sell any GPL software however you see fit. But you must give the source code to everyone you give the software to.<< sorry hans, i should have been clearer on that. i meant 'closed source commercial application'. out of int

Re: [PD] expr alternative

>>What makes you think its okay to ask someone to reconsider a carefully made moral decision simply for your convenience?<< I thought it would be ok to ask at least? Would it really be that bad? On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Andy Farnell wrote: > On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 11:16:18 +0900 > i go b

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 11:16:18 +0900 i go bananas wrote: > in that case, it might be as simple as a nice email to Shadrokh Yadegari to > get his expr for pd license changed to LGPL too?? What makes you think its okay to ask someone to reconsider a carefully made moral decision simply for your con

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On 23/10/2011 19:54, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Oct 23, 2011, at 1:45 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: Le 2011-10-24 à 02:27:00, i go bananas a écrit : how hard would it be to rewrite the expr code so that it doesn't need to be GPL licensed? [...] I think the Apple App Store conflicts wit

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Oct 23, 2011, at 9:47 PM, i go bananas wrote: What is the pain? -Jonathan Hi Jonathan, if you want to use pd in a commercial application, and particularly if you want to use it as the basis for an iphone application, then you cannot include anything that is licensed under the GPL l

Re: [PD] expr alternative

"jMax is distributed under GNU’s Lesser General Public License" http://jmax.sourceforge.net/ is that the LGPL that mattieu is talking about? in that case, it might be as simple as a nice email to Shadrokh Yadegari to get his expr for pd license changed to LGPL too?? i agree with hans that app

Re: [PD] expr alternative

ok, so i checked out the http link that's listed at the top of expr help in pd. http://www.crca.ucsd.edu/~yadegari/expr.html and it says, "Based on original sources from IRCAM's jMax Released under GNU's General Public License." so, if it is based on jMax code, does

Re: [PD] expr alternative

> > What is the pain? > > -Jonathan > > > Hi Jonathan, if you want to use pd in a commercial application, and particularly if you want to use it as the basis for an iphone application, then you cannot include anything that is licensed under the GPL license. In vanilla PD, this means that you have

Re: [PD] expr alternative

> >From: i go bananas >To: PD List >Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 1:27 PM >Subject: [PD] expr alternative > > >how hard would it be to rewrite the expr code so that it doesn't need to be >GPL licensed? > >or has anyone ever

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-10-23 à 13:54:00, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : I think the Apple App Store conflicts with all GNU/FSF licenses. Then think again ! __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___

Re: [PD] expr alternative

On Oct 23, 2011, at 1:45 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: Le 2011-10-24 à 02:27:00, i go bananas a écrit : how hard would it be to rewrite the expr code so that it doesn't need to be GPL licensed? The only other implementation of [expr] is [#expr], but that's GPL too. But it shows that an imp

Re: [PD] expr alternative

Le 2011-10-24 à 02:27:00, i go bananas a écrit : how hard would it be to rewrite the expr code so that it doesn't need to be GPL licensed? The only other implementation of [expr] is [#expr], but that's GPL too. But it shows that an implementation of [expr] doesn't have to be long and complic

[PD] expr alternative

how hard would it be to rewrite the expr code so that it doesn't need to be GPL licensed? or has anyone ever tried contacting the original authors and asking them to change the license so it can fit in with pd's standard BSD ?? sorry if i'm being naive. just wondering. seems a bit of a pain tha