Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:7276] Re: Natural Propositions Chapter 4

2014-10-20 Thread Gary Richmond
Edwina, I agree with you both that (a) it goes without saying that members of the biosemiotics list should feel free to discuss whatever they wish to and (b) that it would have been helpful to have changed the Subject line from one pointing to the NP seminar. I sent my post to the Peirce forum be

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:7276] Re: Natural Propositions Chapter 4

2014-10-20 Thread Edwina Taborsky
Gary R - I can understand, since you are (to my knowledge) one of the moderators of the Peirce-L list, that you can decide that the discussion some of us have been having only on the biosemiotics list should not be extended to the Peirce-L list. But I don't think that you can decide what the bio

[PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:7276] Re: Natural Propositions Chapter 4

2014-10-20 Thread Gary Richmond
List, Sung was responding in the context of about 10 messages in the biosemiotics list where, by the way, I think this discussion should remain (that is, not on peirce-l). I won't copy all those messages, but the last one before Sung's was sent by me and reads: *Howard, * *Semiosis is a process

[PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:7274] Re: Natural Propositions Chapter 4

2014-10-20 Thread Sungchul Ji
Howard, Edwina, Stan, Gary R, Gary F, Frederick, lists, What I don't understand is why can't we extend "nominalism", whatever it is, beyond the human mind to living cells, when Peirce himself extended the concept of Mind to crystals and that of Propositions to non-linguistic things ? Are we all

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:7261] Re: Natural Propositions Chapter 4

2014-10-20 Thread Edwina Taborsky
Howard - I think I begin to see your viewpoint but I think you have a very personal definition of some terms. You don't mean to say that 'nominalism existed before humans' - or do you? Nominalism is, by definition, a perspective that exists only within human cognition. It says that knowledge an

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:7261] Re: Natural Propositions Chapter 4

2014-10-20 Thread Howard Pattee
At 09:40 AM 10/20/2014, Edwina Taborsky wrote: Howard wrote: That is only a narrow human view of nominalism. I think Peirce's view of Tychasm and Agapism is more radical. He generalizes signs, interpreters, mind, habits, and love to the entire natural world. Edwina: What do tychasm and agapa

[PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:7267] Natural Propositions Chapter 4

2014-10-20 Thread Edwina Taborsky
Thanks for your very succinct and clear outline of this chapter and its issues. I agree that "the purely functional definition of propositions liberates Dicisigns from the confinement to human language, intention, and consciousness." (105). That's vital - semiosis proceeds without language or

[PEIRCE-L] Re: Natural Propositions Chapter 4

2014-10-20 Thread Jon Awbrey
Re:Tyler Bennet At:http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.philosophy.peirce/14779 Peircers, The Peirce I have known for nigh unto the last 50 years is not much in evidence on the Peirce List anymore, so I'll just limit myself to one general observation that I've made before and then hope fin

[PEIRCE-L] Natural Propositions Chapter 4

2014-10-20 Thread Tyler Bennett
Hello. It is now time to begin discussion of chapter four of Natural Propositions, "Some Consequences of the Dicisign Doctrine". I come to the discussion as a student of applied semiotics in Tartu and my main interest here is in contemporary debates about the application of Peirce for empirical s

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:7261] Re: Natural Propositions Chapter 4

2014-10-20 Thread Edwina Taborsky
Howard - I think that some of these debates are due to confusion over terminology. 1) Howard wrote: "That is only a narrow human view of nominalism. I think Peirce's view of Tychism and Agapism is more radical. He generalizes signs, interpreters, mind, habits, and love to the entire natural w

[PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:7261] Re: Natural Propositions Chapter 4

2014-10-20 Thread Howard Pattee
Edwina, Gary F, Frederik, and list: At 12:47 PM 10/19/2014, Edwina Taborsky wrote: But both nominalism and psychologism are rooted in and indeed confined to the human cognition and consciousness and again, include 'thought, logic, semiotics and mind as intrinsic'. But they deny these attributes