Shawgi, You said the people in the U.S. don't hold political power (we were talking about Canada, but what the hell) and they're extremely unhappy with the political system. Sure. But then you said "in order for society to move forward, people must first have real and decisive decision-making power." For the sake of argument, I'll overlook the redundancy and focus only the imperative of your priority -- that is to say your "must first". I hate to sound corny, but isn't that like saying "in order to go someplace you *must first* already be there?" Next you give an example of "how extremely dangerous it is to promote something other than the concrete political empowerment of the citizenry." Forget the example, let's deal with your proposition. Just what do you think "concrete" means, anyway? And how do you suppose one does "promotion". Unless by "concrete" you mean the actual buildings within which state power is adminstered (along with the hydro-electric dams and freeway overpasses) -- on the premise that they are made out of "concrete" -- then you would have to be talking about an amalgam of public policies. But that's the kind of thing you dismiss as "something other than concrete". How could one promote a fundamental political change without talking about alternative public policies? Next you talk about "the people themselves, led by the working class" coming to power. . . organizing discussions. . . proposing solutions . . . So what am I, chopped liver? Your "people" and "working class" are such abstractions that actual living persons or workers need not apply. The "absence" of "this sort of discussion" (presumably about "concrete empowerment") could have more to do with its irrelevancy than its urgency. In closing you ask, "How can workers limit the working day if there aren't even any mechanisms in society which put them in a position to begin making meaningful decisions?" Forgive me if I answer with only one word: STRIKE. Regards, Tom Walker ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ knoW Ware Communications | Vancouver, B.C., CANADA | "Though I may be sent to Hell for it, [EMAIL PROTECTED] | such a God will never command my respect." (604) 688-8296 | - John Milton ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The TimeWork Web: http://mindlink.net/knowware/worksite.htm