Until recently, I taught at a community college just outside of Boston, where I encountered much of the same frustrations as Michael Yates. I, and all my colleagues, tried every sort of pedagogical innovation that came down the pike -- daily quizzes, group-based learning, discovery learning, field trips, movies, guest lectures. I gave only take-home assignments, encouraged study groups and spent a considerable portion of class time having students work in groups. Nevertheless, we encountered a hard-core of young recent high-school grads - probably a third of our student body - whose ignorance and alienation were profound. They knew nothing about current events, save what they picked up from Howard Stern, Jerry Springer and the 30-seconds-on-the-half-hour news updates on KISS 107. Teachers, no matter how cool, hip or caring, intimidated them, and they fought back with pointless and self-defeating acts of mini-rebellion, like giggling over last night's debauchery when they were supposed to be figuring out how a new construction ban would impact rents. Many of them could barely write and had great difficulty reading anything more challenging than a junk-novel, a fact of which they were ashamed. I have to say that I hated teaching these students. I was also shocked that people, apparently, can make it through 12 years of public schooling with no knowledge of the world, no experience of abstract critical thought, not to mention limited skills in basic math and english. The good news, however, is that these students were, in our college, surrounded by people just like themselves, only 10-20 years older and wiser. Its amazing what lessons one learns after 10 years of shit jobs in dead-end industries. I often advised the young students against continuing college. I suggested they drop out, work for a while and come back when life had knocked them around a bit. Then they'd be ready to get serious. Ellen Frank