First on Jim Craven's apologies: Don't bend over backwards, Jim. I enjoyed your tirade immensely. Right on! Secondly: It should be a consolation that libertarianism f.inst. in Europe is a non-significant phenomenon (does it have any punch ANYWHERE outside the U.S.?). Market liberalism, yes, but not the crackpot U.S. "libertarianism". Here in Norway the stably tiny group that professes to be libertarians consists of a few young, yuppie- or nerdiness-projecting conservatives with zero popular appeal. But even those are social democrats compared to the uebermenschy gun-toting heinleinian U.S. type. Trond Andresen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) | phone (work) +47 7359 4358 Department of Engineering Cybernetics | fax (work) +47 7359 4399 Norwegian University of Science and Technology| private ph. +47 7353 0823 N-7034 Trondheim, NORWAY | cellular ph. +47 9016 6930 http://www.itk.unit.no/ansatte/Andresen_Trond __________________________