Rob Schaap concludes:
> >It is good that we can engage in this ideological dialogue among ourselves
> >here.  But if we aren't willing to think the whole process out and consider
> >social forces that will get in the way of any progressive social
> >transformation, then we are merely pontificating among ourselves.
> 
> William White has, I reckon, made some points which go the very heart of
> explaining why the left is where Michael Perelman has just located it.
> 
> G'Night all - and thanks, Valis,

All the more to you, Rob.  I hope you kicked off a monster of a thread! 
                                                                   
                                                                   valis



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