Re: Re: Re: contradictions of capitalism

2000-05-10 Thread Jim Devine
At 01:20 PM 5/10/00 -0700, you wrote: >I want to thank Jim Devine for his exception[al] post. I might add one minor >point: by freeing capital to move to the places with the lowest standards for >the environment or for labor, it removes the incentives to improve technology >by making it more labo

Re: Re: Re: contradictions of capitalism

2000-05-10 Thread Jim Devine
>But when you support quotas against imports of textiles from Africa, that >is exactly the choice that you are making... but if the "free market" (and its supporters) insists that the costs of increased import competition be borne by the least-skilled (and least-paid) of manufacturing workers

Re: Re: Re: contradictions of capitalism

2000-05-10 Thread Michael Perelman
Brad, you are correct in a restricted sense. However, I am fully convinced that integration into the global economy will make it more difficult to for Africa to make independent decisions in the long run. Brad De Long wrote: > >Also, I'm not defending a romantisized version of the traditional >

Re: Re: Re: Re: contradictions of capitalism

2000-05-09 Thread Brad De Long
>The actual sweatshop employees will have to build their own >struggles from within their own conditions -- and what we >think about sweatshops is irrelevant. So to some extent this >whole debate, on both sides, as been academic trivializing. > >Carrol Oh not at all. It is very real. Whether or n

Re: Re: Re: contradictions of capitalism

2000-05-09 Thread Eugene Coyle
I did read the section on virtual materialism -- is that to which you refer? Gene Coyle Louis Proyect wrote: > At 10:39 AM 5/9/00 -0700, you wrote: > >Why would we make clothes if we are going to walk around naked? > > Pish-posh. Clearly you haven't read Stalin's lectures on dialectical > mater

Re: Re: Re: contradictions of capitalism

2000-05-09 Thread Michael Perelman
Doug, I did not accuse you of limiting the choice to the sweatshop or the peasant farm. Doug Henwood wrote: > > Well, gee, of course not. Did I ever say those were the only two > choices? Or that sweatshops are pleasant, soul-enriching places to > work? My point was that lots of workers may not

Re: Re: Re: contradictions of capitalism

2000-05-09 Thread Carrol Cox
Doug Henwood wrote: > My point was that lots of workers may not see maquiladoras as > the unmitigated hell we think of them as. That matters a lot for > union and political organizing, doesn't it? I tend to agree -- except. Looking at it from the perspective of Jim O'Connor's recent posts on

Re: Re: Re: contradictions of capitalism

2000-05-09 Thread Michael Perelman
Jim Devine wrote: > > Sweatshops, like traditional peasant agriculture (and the vast majority of > pre-capitalist modes of production), are very patriarchal. And > paternalistic. The freedom of the women at Lowell was highly restricted. > They were not that different from indentured servants, th

Re: Re: Re: Re: contradictions of capitalism

2000-05-09 Thread Jim Devine
At 12:11 PM 5/9/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Hmm, in journalism we call those interviews. But on scholarly > >matters, of course I defer to you. > > > >Doug > >Why, thank you. And when it comes to journalism, I defer to you. after you, my dear Alphonse. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://liberala

Re: Re: Re: contradictions of capitalism

2000-05-09 Thread Louis Proyect
>Hmm, in journalism we call those interviews. But on scholarly >matters, of course I defer to you. > >Doug Why, thank you. And when it comes to journalism, I defer to you. Louis Proyect Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org/