tizens :-)
Ian
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Peter Dorman
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 12:01 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [PEN-L:5114] Re: RE: Re: global warming talks failure
>
>
> If I understan
: Re: global warming talks failure
>If I understand this, you are frontloading the political hassle by building
the
>progressive tightening of the standard into the initial regulation. If the
>political juice is there, that's always a good thing to do...
>
>Lisa & Ian Murra
Maybe this is the time to vent an idea I've been carrying around...
The Kyoto negotiations are an example of global quasi-governance processes that
are proceeding fitfully but are absolutely essential to our future. I would add
third world debt-reduction to this list, also global labor standards
If I understand this, you are frontloading the political hassle by building the
progressive tightening of the standard into the initial regulation. If the
political juice is there, that's always a good thing to do...
Lisa & Ian Murray wrote:
> If we set
> stringent targets that do as you say, h
At 01:30 PM 11/29/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Max,
>Heck, I'll take both you and Peter, and
>maybe even the irascible Devine One up
>on that, :-).
start pouring...
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
em. Thus, they are both ceilings
>> and not floors, at least in principle, even if they are
>> violated in practice, which is possible for both.
>> Barkley Rosser
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Peter Dorman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTE
:5071] RE: Re: Re: global warming talks failure
>One or two should do it.
>
>mbs
>
>
>My hunch is that no one else on pen-l cares about this other than you or I,
>Barkley. We can take it up over a drink in New Orleans. Enough drinks and
>I'm sure you'll see it my way.
>Peter
>
>
Brad DeLong wrote:
>Pray for cleaner technology and raise the CAFE standards!
has praying ever done any good?
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
>A lot of lefties want to blame evil corporations for global warming,
>and while they're no angels, the real solution would mean profound
>changes in everyday life for almost all of us. How do we get there?
>
>Doug
Not by ignoring the problem. Not by having the Vice President show up
at lots of
>Eugene Coyle wrote:
>
>>I agree with Barkley that this is a frightening and urgent problem. My
>>take is that Gore and Clinton haven't had and don't have a serious
>>intention of doing anything about it, posture as Gore will.
>
>Well, it'd require massive changes in U.S. life just to get back to
Jr.>>
> Peter,
> Thanks for the reference.
> There is nothing stopping
> a firm that owns the right to emit a certain amount of a
> given pollutant to emit less. But it cannot emit more.
> Ceiling implies a maximum above which one cannot
> go. A floor is a minimum below which one can
One or two should do it.
mbs
My hunch is that no one else on pen-l cares about this other than you or I,
Barkley. We can take it up over a drink in New Orleans. Enough drinks and
I'm sure you'll see it my way.
Peter
ich is possible for both.
Barkley Rosser
-Original Message-
From: Peter Dorman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 3:42 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:5061] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: global warming talks failure
>"J. Barkley Ro
From an offlist discussion with Lou Proyect
I would say that the big opening for Marxism here,
aside from the general critique of profit-oriented
firms driving things, is for how one determines
the overall level of emissions. Although it was
done through an international negotiation, good
i
"J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." wrote:
> Peter,
> Thanks for the reference.
> There is nothing stopping
> a firm that owns the right to emit a certain amount of a
> given pollutant to emit less.
No, but under a tradeable system the underpolluting firm sells its excess to
another firm that "
Doug,
This is one reason why I am in favor of various
"flexible mechanisms" including a reasonably
structured market mechanism. This is indeed a
global problem and the issue is getting global
emissions down. Therefore I have no problem
with, for example, the US paying other countries
to
lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, November 27, 2000 6:17 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:5026] Re: Re: Re: global warming talks failure
>Under traditional regulation, each polluter is supposed to limit pollution
to
>some specified level. Some may find it feasible to cut pollution even
more,
>so th
Jim Devine wrote:
> Mike Lebowitz's book, BEYOND CAPITAL, deals with these issues of Marx's
> deterministic vision.
While they have somewhat different agendas, and clash on some issues,
Wood, Foster, and Harvey are all very good on the mixture of deterministic
and non-deterministic elements in
Mike Lebowitz's book, BEYOND CAPITAL, deals with these issues of Marx's
deterministic vision. In a nutshell, Marx deliberately minimized the role
of the self-organization working class in CAPITAL, in order to focus on the
contradictory dynamics of capital, which create conditions in which
work
G'day Doug,
>Louis Proyect wrote:
>
>>Actually most people value peace and health more than shopping at the
malls
>>and cancer. That is the reason drug use and prozac is so widespread in the
>>USA. Beneath the "good life" there is a profound feeling of despair.
>
>...but which can't get articulat
Louis Proyect wrote:
>Actually most people value peace and health more than shopping at the malls
>and cancer. That is the reason drug use and prozac is so widespread in the
>USA. Beneath the "good life" there is a profound feeling of despair.
...but which can't get articulated as despair. If I
>A lot of lefties want to blame evil corporations for global warming,
>and while they're no angels, the real solution would mean profound
>changes in everyday life for almost all of us. How do we get there?
>
>Doug
Actually most people value peace and health more than shopping at the malls
and
Under traditional regulation, each polluter is supposed to limit pollution to
some specified level. Some may find it feasible to cut pollution even more,
so that the overall target (permitted pollution level times number of
activities) serves as a ceiling. Under tradeable permits, all such gaps
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