Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-21 Thread Chris Travers
Hi Christopher-- I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Also sorry for the delay in responding. My son was born on Dec 16th, the day the message was sent to which I am responding. Christopher Browne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Wrote: > 1. The businesses that are sufficiently "forward thinking

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-16 Thread Keith C. Perry
Quoting Peter Eisentraut <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Amy Young wrote: > > In the mean time, I will investigate the "21 day" book (I have used > > the series many times!) and hope the PostgreSQL community will > > recognize the need for some training classes > > I don't see that there is a lack of avai

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-15 Thread Amy Young
Bret, Thanks for voicing your opinion. I'll second it as loudly as I can. I work for a small 5 member team in a major hospitality corporation. Our team has a mish mash of responsibilities (help desk, tool design through MS Excel and MS Access, and corporate reporting). We are just pushing the l

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-15 Thread wim
Hi, Why worry? I'm sure that most of the guys in this list didn't have dedicated PostgreSQL training (I didn't for sure). You have lots of tutorials and (not to forget) a great documentation set on the Postgres website. There are also the mailing lists with people who like to help you. And reme

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-13 Thread Chris Travers
Hi Brett; On Sat, 2003-12-13 at 01:06, Bret Busby wrote: > > I assume from the above, that the 1 one (Basic competency), would be > the equivalent of the MySQL 4 Core Certification? > > Would it not also be appropriate, to include in that one, installation > and (basic) configuration; that is,

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-12 Thread John Sidney-Woollett
If you considering a skills outline, also consider dividing it two areas; developer and dba. My experience is mostly with Oracle (more years than I care to remember), and with this product in many organizations, there are usually two camps; the dba (God) and the developers (devils - always trying

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-12 Thread Bret Busby
PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training > > Chris Travers wrote: > > I think though that there is an opportunity, though, for us to perhaps > > work together in developing a Postgresql training base curriculum. We > >

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-12 Thread Bruce Momjian
Chris Travers wrote: > I am wondering if you are interested in helping with some sort of skills > outline project-- what skills we as a community think are important for > someone to claim basic mastery over the database manager. Not as if you > don't have enough to do already ;-) Maybe at least

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-12 Thread Bruce Momjian
Keith C. Perry wrote: > > Also, though lots of people want training, seems that want _free_ > > training. They aren't flooding my Atlanta classes, that's for sure. I > > give classes at many conferences around the world too, and I get usually > > 20-40 people --- not exactly a flood either. Mayb

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-12 Thread Keith C. Perry
Quoting "Marc G. Fournier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > > > Keith C. Perry wrote: > > > That situtation is a little different though since Linux comes is > > > various distributions. Eventually people with get that Linux = Red > > > Hat is NOT true. Heck,

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-12 Thread Keith C. Perry
Quoting Peter Eisentraut <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Keith C. Perry wrote: > > That situtation is a little different though since Linux comes is > > various distributions. Eventually people with get that Linux = Red > > Hat is NOT true. Heck, IBM is probably the best at promoting Linux > > these days

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-12 Thread Jeff Eckermann
Chris, Your persistence and your ideas suggest that you have something to contribute in this area. Why not sign up on the pgsql-advocacy list, and carry your ideas forward there? That would be an appropriate forum for this kind of discussion. The arguments on both sides (if there are only two s

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-12 Thread Keith C. Perry
Quoting Bruce Momjian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > John Gibson wrote: > > > > > > > > >> "Linux" training is not standardized by any measure either. Lots of > > >> companies and "institutions" offer their own training courses. Some > > >> of these grow to be fairly well recognized and are offered in

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-12 Thread Keith C. Perry
Quoting Rick Gigger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Ok, I see what you're trying to do. In looking at this it occurs to me > that one > > of the way to aid in this effort is through more tech documents. For > instance, > > I have asked before what is the recommended procedure or stategy for > recoveri

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-12 Thread Chris Travers
On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 21:40, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Imagine if Linus or the Linux kernel guys tried to standardize Linux > training --- it would be a mess. > Exactly, but that is what community is for :-) > Also, though lots of people want training, seems that want _free_ > training. They aren'

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-12 Thread Chris Travers
On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 02:04, Keith C. Perry wrote: > > > > Agreed. However-- there is a push in the IT world (much resisted here) > > to try to make sysadmin/DBA positions more of a technician-oriented > > rather than academic oriented. The idea here is that it reduces IT > > costs (perhaps, th

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-12 Thread Bruce Momjian
Chris Travers wrote: > I think though that there is an opportunity, though, for us to perhaps > work together in developing a Postgresql training base curriculum. We > can pool some resources and perhaps develop at least a list of the > things which ought to be covered. Perhaps this can lead to bo

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-12 Thread Bruce Momjian
John Gibson wrote: > > > > > >> "Linux" training is not standardized by any measure either. Lots of > >> companies and "institutions" offer their own training courses. Some > >> of these grow to be fairly well recognized and are offered in similar > >> form repeatedly in different locations, b

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-11 Thread Rick Gigger
> Ok, I see what you're trying to do. In looking at this it occurs to me that one > of the way to aid in this effort is through more tech documents. For instance, > I have asked before what is the recommended procedure or stategy for recovering > a database that has "crashed". Something like th

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-11 Thread Chris Travers
Before I begin, I think that most of us agree on the following points: 1: The PostgreSQL project is not in a position at the moment to bless any attempt to create an official curriculum or certification. 2: The idea of patterning PostgreSQL certifications on Microsoft exams is patently offensiv

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-10 Thread Chris Travers
On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 04:39, Keith C. Perry wrote: > I think what the real religious argument here is that many, many people feel > "skills assessment" should NOT be linked to a product. It should in fact be > linked to the underlying material a product is designed to manipulate. > > If someone

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-10 Thread Chris Travers
I think though that there is an opportunity, though, for us to perhaps work together in developing a Postgresql training base curriculum. We can pool some resources and perhaps develop at least a list of the things which ought to be covered. Perhaps this can lead to books on the subject, etc. I a

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-10 Thread John Gibson
"Linux" training is not standardized by any measure either. Lots of companies and "institutions" offer their own training courses. Some of these grow to be fairly well recognized and are offered in similar form repeatedly in different locations, but that is not "standardized" in the sense y

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-10 Thread Joshua D. Drake
"Linux" training is not standardized by any measure either. Lots of companies and "institutions" offer their own training courses. Some of these grow to be fairly well recognized and are offered in similar form repeatedly in different locations, but that is not "standardized" in the sense yo

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-10 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Bret Busby wrote: > Regarding the PostgreSQL training that is provided by companies, a > problem with that, as it exists, is that, insofar as I am aware, that > training is not standardised, "Linux" training is not standardized by any measure either. Lots of companies and "institutions" offer th

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-10 Thread Uwe C. Schroeder
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Although you certainly have a point that a lot of companies rely on "certification" in the one or other way, you'd have to admit that probably 80% of "certified" people have no clue what they are talking about. I met so many certified people where y

Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training

2003-12-10 Thread Bret Busby
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Bryan Encina wrote: > Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:06:05 -0800 > From: Bryan Encina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: 'Bruce Momjian' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training > > > I think that is about the author of the web site, and is > >