On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:02:34PM +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
> Thanks Robert. I've tried to accommodate all of your thoughts, plus Alvaro's.
>
> New v5 attached.
>
> Happy to receive further comments.
I liked this patch very much. It gives details on a lot of the
internals we expose to users.
Op 13-10-2022 om 23:28 schreef Bruce Momjian:
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:02:34PM +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
Thanks Robert. I've tried to accommodate all of your thoughts, plus Alvaro's.
New v5 attached.
Happy to receive further comments.
I liked this patch very much. It gives details on a lo
On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 11:54:51PM +0200, Erik Rijkers wrote:
> > [xact.diff]
>
> I think that
> 'This chapter explains how the control the reliability of'
>
> should be:
> 'This chapter explains how to control the reliability of'
>
>
> And in these lines:
> + together in a transactional ma
On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 at 23:06, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> Thanks, updated patch attached. You can see the output at:
Thank you for your work to tighten and cleanup this patch, much appreciated.
I had two minor typos, plus a slight rewording to avoid using the word
"global" in the last section, sin
+1 for this new chapter. This latest patch looks pretty good. I think
that introducing the concept of "sub-commit" as in Simon's follow-up
patch clarifies things, though the word itself looks very odd. Maybe
it's okay. The addition of the savepoint example looks good also.
On 2022-Oct-13, Bruc
On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 at 09:46, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
>
> +1 for this new chapter. This latest patch looks pretty good. I think
> that introducing the concept of "sub-commit" as in Simon's follow-up
> patch clarifies things, though the word itself looks very odd. Maybe
> it's okay. The addition
On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 at 08:55, Simon Riggs wrote:
> In related changes, I've also done some major rewording of the RELEASE
> SAVEPOINT command, since it was incorrectly described as having "no
> other user visible behavior". A complex example is given to explain,
> using the terminology establishe
On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 08:55:05AM +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 at 23:06, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, updated patch attached. You can see the output at:
>
> Thank you for your work to tighten and cleanup this patch, much appreciated.
>
> I had two minor typos, plus a
On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 01:05:14PM +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 at 08:55, Simon Riggs
> wrote:
>
> > In related changes, I've also done some major rewording of the RELEASE
> > SAVEPOINT command, since it was incorrectly described as having "no
> > other user visible behavior".
On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 10:46:15AM +0200, Álvaro Herrera wrote:
> +1 for this new chapter. This latest patch looks pretty good. I think
> that introducing the concept of "sub-commit" as in Simon's follow-up
> patch clarifies things, though the word itself looks very odd. Maybe
> it's okay. The
On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 12:22:35PM +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > > +
> > > +The parent xid of each subxid is recorded in the
> > > +pg_subtrans directory. No entry is made for
> > > +top-level xids since they do not have a parent, nor is an entry made
> > > +for read-only subtran
On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 3:51 PM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Attached is the merged patch from all the great comments I received. I
> have also rebuilt the docs with the updated patch:
>
> https://momjian.us/tmp/pgsql/
>
+ RELEASE SAVEPOINT also subcommits and destroys
+ all savepoints tha
On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 05:46:55PM -0400, Robert Treat wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 3:51 PM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > Attached is the merged patch from all the great comments I received. I
> > have also rebuilt the docs with the updated patch:
> >
> > https://momjian.us/tmp/pgsql/
> >
On Sun, 16 Oct 2022 at 02:08, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 05:46:55PM -0400, Robert Treat wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 3:51 PM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > Attached is the merged patch from all the great comments I received. I
> > > have also rebuilt the docs with the upd
On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 11:02 AM Simon Riggs
wrote:
>
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2022 at 02:08, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 05:46:55PM -0400, Robert Treat wrote:
> > > On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 3:51 PM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > > Attached is the merged patch from all the great comm
On Sat, 2022-10-15 at 21:08 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> I therefore merged all three paragraphs into
> one and tried to make the text saner; release_savepoint.sgml diff
> attached, URL content updated.
I wanted to have a look at this, but I am confused. The original patch
was much bigger. Is
On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 at 15:17, Laurenz Albe wrote:
>
> On Sat, 2022-10-15 at 21:08 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > I therefore merged all three paragraphs into
> > one and tried to make the text saner; release_savepoint.sgml diff
> > attached, URL content updated.
>
> I wanted to have a look at thi
On Fri, Nov 4, 2022 at 04:17:28PM +0100, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> On Sat, 2022-10-15 at 21:08 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > I therefore merged all three paragraphs into
> > one and tried to make the text saner; release_savepoint.sgml diff
> > attached, URL content updated.
>
> I wanted to have a
On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 at 07:43, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2022 at 04:17:28PM +0100, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> > On Sat, 2022-10-15 at 21:08 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > I therefore merged all three paragraphs into
> > > one and tried to make the text saner; release_savepoint.sgml dif
On Sat, 2022-11-05 at 10:08 +, Simon Riggs wrote:
> Agreed; new compilation patch attached, including mine and then
> Robert's suggested rewordings.
Thanks. There is clearly a lot of usefule information in this.
Some comments:
> --- a/doc/src/sgml/func.sgml
> +++ b/doc/src/sgml/func.sgml
>
On Mon, 2022-11-07 at 23:04 +0100, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> On Sat, 2022-11-05 at 10:08 +, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > Agreed; new compilation patch attached, including mine and then
> > Robert's suggested rewordings.
>
> Thanks. There is clearly a lot of usefule information in this.
>
> Some commen
On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 10:58:05AM +, Simon Riggs wrote:
> What I've posted is the merged patch, i.e. your latest patch, plus
> changes to RELEASE SAVEPOINT from you on Oct 16, plus changes based on
> the later comments from Robert and I.
Thanks. I have two changes to your patch. First, I ag
On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 04:37:59AM +0100, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> On Mon, 2022-11-07 at 23:04 +0100, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> > On Sat, 2022-11-05 at 10:08 +, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > > Agreed; new compilation patch attached, including mine and then
> > > Robert's suggested rewordings.
> >
> > Thanks
On Mon, 2022-11-07 at 22:43 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > I thought some more about the patch, and I don't like the title
> > "Transaction Management" for the new chapter. I'd expect some more
> > from a chapter titled "Internals" / "Transaction Management".
> >
> > In reality, the new chapter
On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 5:04 PM Laurenz Albe wrote:
>
> On Sat, 2022-11-05 at 10:08 +, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > Agreed; new compilation patch attached, including mine and then
> > Robert's suggested rewordings.
>
> Thanks. There is clearly a lot of usefule information in this.
>
> Some comments:
On Wed, 2022-11-09 at 09:16 -0500, Robert Treat wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 5:04 PM Laurenz Albe wrote:
> > Some comments:
> >
>
> > > --- a/doc/src/sgml/ref/release_savepoint.sgml
> > > +++ b/doc/src/sgml/ref/release_savepoint.sgml
> > > @@ -34,23 +34,16 @@ RELEASE [ SAVEPOINT ]
> > > save
On 2022-Nov-10, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> On Wed, 2022-11-09 at 09:16 -0500, Robert Treat wrote:
> > > > - If AND CHAIN is specified, a new transaction
> > > > is
> > > > + If AND CHAIN is specified, a new unaborted
> > > > transaction is
> > > > immediately started with the same t
On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 at 22:04, Laurenz Albe wrote:
>
> On Sat, 2022-11-05 at 10:08 +, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > Agreed; new compilation patch attached, including mine and then
> > Robert's suggested rewordings.
>
> Thanks. There is clearly a lot of usefule information in this.
>
> Some comments:
>
On Thu, 2022-11-10 at 12:17 +0100, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> On 2022-Nov-10, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> > On Wed, 2022-11-09 at 09:16 -0500, Robert Treat wrote:
> > > > > - If AND CHAIN is specified, a new
> > > > > transaction is
> > > > > + If AND CHAIN is specified, a new unaborted
> > > >
On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 at 03:41, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 10:58:05AM +, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > What I've posted is the merged patch, i.e. your latest patch, plus
> > changes to RELEASE SAVEPOINT from you on Oct 16, plus changes based on
> > the later comments from Robert an
On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 11:04:46PM +0100, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> On Sat, 2022-11-05 at 10:08 +, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > Agreed; new compilation patch attached, including mine and then
> > Robert's suggested rewordings.
>
> Thanks. There is clearly a lot of usefule information in this.
Sorry ag
On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 09:16:18AM -0500, Robert Treat wrote:
> > "Subtransactions of the named savepoint" is somewhat confusing; how about
> > "subtransactions of the subtransaction established by the named savepoint"?
> >
> > If that is too long and explicit, perhaps "subtransactions of that
> >
On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 08:39:29AM +0100, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> > > I don't think that is an improvement. "Unaborted" is an un-word. A new
> > > transaction
> > > is always "unaborted", isn't it?
> >
> > I thought about this as well when reviewing it, but I do think
> > something is needed for
On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 12:56:30PM +0100, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> > Maybe there's a way to reword the entire phrase that leads to a better
> > formulation of the idea.
>
> Any of your auggestions is better than "unaborted".
>
> How about:
>
> If AND CHAIN is specified, a new transaction is
> i
On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 11:31:25AM +, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > That's not true. Transactions waiting for table-level locks are shown
> > waiting for a "relation" lock in both "pg_stat_activity" and "pg_locks".
>
> Agreed.
>
> Lock waits on table-locks are shown waiting for a lock type of
> rel
On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 10:16:44AM +, Simon Riggs wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 at 03:41, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 10:58:05AM +, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > > What I've posted is the merged patch, i.e. your latest patch, plus
> > > changes to RELEASE SAVEPOINT from you
On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 02:33:26PM -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 12:56:30PM +0100, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> > > Maybe there's a way to reword the entire phrase that leads to a better
> > > formulation of the idea.
> >
> > Any of your auggestions is better than "unaborted".
> >
On Fri, 2022-11-18 at 14:28 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> New patch attached.
Thanks.
> --- a/doc/src/sgml/ref/release_savepoint.sgml
> +++ b/doc/src/sgml/ref/release_savepoint.sgml
> + RELEASE SAVEPOINT releases the named savepoint and
> + all active savepoints that were created after the n
Agreed on not using "unaborted", per previous discussion.
On 2022-Nov-21, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> Perhaps we should also avoid the term "transaction block". Even without
> speaking
> of a "block", way too many people confuse PL/pgSQL's BEGIN ... END blocks
> with transactions. On the other hand,
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 11:15:36AM +0100, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> > --- a/doc/src/sgml/ref/release_savepoint.sgml
> > +++ b/doc/src/sgml/ref/release_savepoint.sgml
>
> > + RELEASE SAVEPOINT releases the named savepoint and
> > + all active savepoints that were created after the named savepoint,
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 11:35:09AM +0100, Álvaro Herrera wrote:
> Agreed on not using "unaborted", per previous discussion.
>
> On 2022-Nov-21, Laurenz Albe wrote:
>
> > Perhaps we should also avoid the term "transaction block". Even without
> > speaking
> > of a "block", way too many people co
Op 22-11-2022 om 19:00 schreef Bruce Momjian:
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 11:15:36AM +0100, Laurenz Albe wrote:
..., while both columns will be set in read-write transactions.
Agreed, changed. Updated patch attached.
In func.sgml:
'Only top-level transaction ID are' should be
'Only top-lev
On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 07:47:26PM +0100, Erik Rijkers wrote:
> Op 22-11-2022 om 19:00 schreef Bruce Momjian:
> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 11:15:36AM +0100, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> > >..., while both columns will be set in read-write transactions.
> >
> > Agreed, changed. Updated patch attached.
On Tue, 2022-11-22 at 13:50 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Agreed, updated patch attached.
I cannot find any more problems, and I shouldn't mention the extra empty
line at the end of the patch.
I'd change the commitfest status to "ready for committer" now if it were
not already in that status.
Yo
On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 01:50:36PM -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> +
> +
> + A more complex example with multiple nested subtransactions:
> +
> +BEGIN;
> +INSERT INTO table1 VALUES (1);
> +SAVEPOINT sp1;
> +INSERT INTO table1 VALUES (2);
> +SAVEPOINT sp2;
> +INSERT INTO table1
On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 08:57:33AM +0100, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> On Tue, 2022-11-22 at 13:50 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > Agreed, updated patch attached.
>
> I cannot find any more problems, and I shouldn't mention the extra empty
> line at the end of the patch.
Fixed. ;-)
> I'd change the co
On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 02:17:19AM -0600, Justin Pryzby wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 01:50:36PM -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > +
> > +
> > + A more complex example with multiple nested subtransactions:
> > +
> > +BEGIN;
> > +INSERT INTO table1 VALUES (1);
> > +SAVEPOINT sp1;
> > +
On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 02:11:50PM -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 11:04:46PM +0100, Laurenz Albe wrote:
> > On Sat, 2022-11-05 at 10:08 +, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > > Agreed; new compilation patch attached, including mine and then
> > > Robert's suggested rewordings.
> >
>
On 30.11.22 02:51, Bruce Momjian wrote:
On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 02:11:50PM -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:
On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 11:04:46PM +0100, Laurenz Albe wrote:
On Sat, 2022-11-05 at 10:08 +, Simon Riggs wrote:
Agreed; new compilation patch attached, including mine and then
Robert's su
On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 at 01:51, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Thanks to Simon for getting this important
> information in our docs, and for the valuable feedback from others that
> made this even better.
And thanks to you for pulling that all together Bruce.
--
Simon Riggshttp://www.Ent
On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 07:33:44AM +0100, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> On 30.11.22 02:51, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > Patch applied back to PG 11. Thanks to Simon for getting this important
> > information in our docs, and for the valuable feedback from others that
> > made this even better.
>
> I requ
On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 6:52 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 07:33:44AM +0100, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> > On 30.11.22 02:51, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > Patch applied back to PG 11. Thanks to Simon for getting this
> important
> > > information in our docs, and for the valuable
On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 07:10:35AM -0700, David G. Johnston wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 6:52 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> I'd maybe accept having it back-patched to v15 on that basis but not any
> further.
>
> But I agree that our general behavior is to only apply this scope of update of
> the
On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 8:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 07:10:35AM -0700, David G. Johnston wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 6:52 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > I'd maybe accept having it back-patched to v15 on that basis but not any
> > further.
> >
> > But I agree that ou
On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 08:25:19AM -0700, David G. Johnston wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 8:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 07:10:35AM -0700, David G. Johnston wrote:
> If everyone agrees this new chapter is helpful, and as helpful to PG 11
> users as PG 16 user
On 2022-Nov-30, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 07:33:44AM +0100, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> > On 30.11.22 02:51, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > Patch applied back to PG 11. Thanks to Simon for getting this important
> > > information in our docs, and for the valuable feedback from othe
Alvaro Herrera writes:
> I find it a bit shocking to have had it backpatched, even to 15 -- a
> whole chapter in the documentation? I don't see why it wouldn't be
> treated like any other "major feature" patch, which we only consider for
> the development branch. Also, this is a first cut -- pre
On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 12:31:55PM -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
> Alvaro Herrera writes:
> > I find it a bit shocking to have had it backpatched, even to 15 -- a
> > whole chapter in the documentation? I don't see why it wouldn't be
> > treated like any other "major feature" patch, which we only consid
On 2022-Dec-01, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Patch reverted in all back branches. I was hoping to get support for
> more aggressive backpatches of docs, but obviously failed. I should
> have been clearer about my intent to backpatch, and will have to
> consider these issues in future doc backpatches.
Op 06-09-2022 om 17:16 schreef Simon Riggs:
New chapter on transaction management, plus a few related changes.
Markup and links are not polished yet, so please comment initially on
the topics, descriptions and wording.
[xact_docs.v2.patch]
Very clear explanations, thank you.
Two typos:
'n
On Tue, 6 Sept 2022 at 17:19, Erik Rijkers wrote:
>
> Op 06-09-2022 om 17:16 schreef Simon Riggs:
> > New chapter on transaction management, plus a few related changes.
> >
> > Markup and links are not polished yet, so please comment initially on
> > the topics, descriptions and wording.
>
> > [xa
On Tue, Sep 06, 2022 at 04:16:02PM +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
> New chapter on transaction management, plus a few related changes.
>
> Markup and links are not polished yet, so please comment initially on
> the topics, descriptions and wording.
This is useful. Nitpicks follow.
+If execu
On Tue, 6 Sept 2022 at 21:33, Justin Pryzby wrote:
>
> On Tue, Sep 06, 2022 at 04:16:02PM +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > New chapter on transaction management, plus a few related changes.
> >
> > Markup and links are not polished yet, so please comment initially on
> > the topics, descriptions and
On 2022-Sep-06, Simon Riggs wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Sept 2022 at 17:19, Erik Rijkers wrote:
> >
> > Op 06-09-2022 om 17:16 schreef Simon Riggs:
> > > New chapter on transaction management, plus a few related changes.
> > >
> > > Markup and links are not polished yet, so please comment initially on
> >
On Thu, 8 Sept 2022 at 08:42, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
>
> On 2022-Sep-06, Simon Riggs wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 6 Sept 2022 at 17:19, Erik Rijkers wrote:
> > >
> > > Op 06-09-2022 om 17:16 schreef Simon Riggs:
> > > > New chapter on transaction management, plus a few related changes.
> > > >
> > > > Mar
On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 8:05 AM Simon Riggs wrote:
>
> On Tue, 6 Sept 2022 at 21:33, Justin Pryzby wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 06, 2022 at 04:16:02PM +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > > New chapter on transaction management, plus a few related changes.
> > >
> > > Markup and links are not polished yet,
On Sun, 11 Sept 2022 at 21:35, Robert Treat wrote:
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 8:05 AM Simon Riggs
> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 6 Sept 2022 at 21:33, Justin Pryzby wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, Sep 06, 2022 at 04:16:02PM +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > > > New chapter on transaction management, plus a fe
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