Hi,
I also wrote Bruce about that.
It happens that, if you 'freely advertise' commercial solutions (rather
than they doing so by other vehicles) you will always happen to be an
'updater' to the docs if they change their product lines, if they change
their business model, if and if.
If you c
Praveen Kumar N <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> can anybody tell me what is the computational complexity of
> external sorting algorithm used by postgres in terms of time and space.
See the comments at the head of tuplesort.c:
http://developer.postgresql.org/cvsweb.cgi/pgsql/src/backend/utils
Hi,
can anybody tell me what is the computational complexity of
external sorting algorithm used by postgres in terms of time and space.
And one more question is how does # of DISK I/O's vary by varying jsf and
size of data while using external sorting algorithms to sort(I mean is it
like linea
"Gurjeet Singh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On 10/23/06, Tom Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
>> I didn't particularly trust the timing calculations in your benchmark
>> program,
> Any particular reason? (why and what did you doubt in it?).
Well, the specific thing that set off my bogometer
On Oct 24, 2006, at 9:20 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Steve Atkins wrote:
If we are to add them, I need to hear that from people who haven't
worked in PostgreSQL commerical replication companies.
I'm not coming to PostgreSQL for open source solutions. I'm coming
to PostgreSQL for _good_ solution
Steve Atkins wrote:
> > If we are to add them, I need to hear that from people who haven't
> > worked in PostgreSQL commerical replication companies.
>
> I'm not coming to PostgreSQL for open source solutions. I'm coming
> to PostgreSQL for _good_ solutions.
>
> I want to see what solutions might
On Oct 24, 2006, at 8:48 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
Josh Berkus wrote:
Bruce,
I have updated the text. Please let me know what else I should
change.
I am unsure if I should be mentioning commercial PostgreSQL
products in
our documentation.
I think you should ment
On 10/24/06, rajesh boppana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
i want to implement materialized views in postgresql . to do as i
want to modify the code in backend but i don't know what r the files i have
to modify. so please help me by mentioning about the backend code.
http://www.postgresql
i want to implement materialized views in postgresql . to do as i want to modify the code in backend but i don't know what r the files i have to modify. so please help me by mentioning about the backend code.
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Josh Berkus wrote:
> > Bruce,
> >
> >> I have updated the text. Please let me know what else I should change.
> >> I am unsure if I should be mentioning commercial PostgreSQL products in
> >> our documentation.
> >
> > I think you should mention the postgresql-only ones,
Alvaro Herrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Is this possible? It would be very fast.
It's possible but not exactly simple. As an example, your proposed
plan:
> Limit (50)
> Sort (key: pse_lastlogin)
> Result
>Append
> Limit (50)
>SeqScan tbl_profile_search
>
Tom Lane wrote:
NULL,/* let the backend deduce param type */
I think the JDBC driver will be passing the int4 OID for the param type
in this case.
Best thing is probably for the OP to run with loglevel=2 and see exactly
what's being sent, though.
-O
--
Josh Berkus wrote:
> Bruce,
>
>> I have updated the text. Please let me know what else I should change.
>> I am unsure if I should be mentioning commercial PostgreSQL products in
>> our documentation.
>
> I think you should mention the postgresql-only ones, but just briefly with a
> link. Bizg
Bruce,
> I have updated the text. Please let me know what else I should change.
> I am unsure if I should be mentioning commercial PostgreSQL products in
> our documentation.
I think you should mention the postgresql-only ones, but just briefly with a
link. Bizgres MPP, ExtenDB, uni/cluster, a
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
> > Looking at that, I'm a) missing PgCluster and b) arguing that we have to
> > admit that we simply can not 'list .. replication solutions ... and how
> > to get them' because all of the solutions mentioned need quite some
> > knowledge and require a more or less complex
I don't think the PostgreSQL documentation should be mentioning
commercial solutions.
---
Luke Lonergan wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Markus Schiltknecht wrote:
> Looking at that, I'm a) missing PgCluster and b) arguing that we have to
> admit that we simply can not 'list .. replication solutions ... and how
> to get them' because all of the solutions mentioned need quite some
> knowledge and require a more or less complex ins
I have updated the text. Please let me know what else I should change.
I am unsure if I should be mentioning commercial PostgreSQL products in
our documentation.
---
Hannu Krosing wrote:
> ?hel kenal p?eval, T, 2006-10-24
Simon Riggs wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 00:20 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > Here is a new replication documentation section I want to add for 8.2:
> >
> > ftp://momjian.us/pub/postgresql/mypatches/replication
> >
> > Comments welcomed.
>
> It's a very good start to a complete minefield
I have changed the text to reference "fail over" and "load balancing".
I think it makes it clearer. Let me know what you think. I am hesitant
to mention commercial PostgreSQL products in our documentation.
---
Markus Schi
Dave Cramer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> This is a server bug, I will post to hackers for you,
Please provide a complete test case. I tried to reproduce the failure
in libpq, with
/* Here is our out-of-line parameter value */
paramValues[0] = "joe's place";
res = PQexecParams(conn,
Bruce,
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Momjian
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 5:16 PM
> To: Hannu Krosing
> Cc: PostgreSQL-documentation; PostgreSQL-development
> Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Replication documentation addition
>
On Tue, 24 Oct 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
AFAIK Continuent's product fails that test...
To my knowledge, p/cluster only works with PostgreSQL but I could be wrong.
p/cluster was the old name for the PostgreSQL specific version. It's been
rebranded as uni/cluster and they have versions f
OK, I have updated the URL. Please let me know how you like it.
---
Hannu Krosing wrote:
> ?hel kenal p?eval, T, 2006-10-24 kell 00:20, kirjutas Bruce Momjian:
> > Here is a new replication documentation section I want to a
Jim C. Nasby wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 03:33:03PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> Simon Riggs wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 15:13 -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>>
If it were me, I would say that the replication option has to be
specific to PostgreSQL (e.g; cjdbc or synchronous
On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 03:33:03PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Simon Riggs wrote:
> > On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 15:13 -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> >
> >> If it were me, I would say that the replication option has to be
> >> specific to PostgreSQL (e.g; cjdbc or synchronous jakarta pooling
> >>
On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 11:39:34PM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Query Broadcast Replication
> ---
>
> This involves sending write queries to multiple servers. Read-only
> queries can be sent to a single server because there is no need for all
> servers to process it. Th
Simon Riggs wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 15:33 -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> Simon Riggs wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 15:13 -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>>
If it were me, I would say that the replication option has to be
specific to PostgreSQL (e.g; cjdbc or synchronous jakarta
On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 15:33 -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Simon Riggs wrote:
> > On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 15:13 -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> >
> >> If it were me, I would say that the replication option has to be
> >> specific to PostgreSQL (e.g; cjdbc or synchronous jakarta pooling
> >> doesn't
Simon Riggs wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 15:13 -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
>> If it were me, I would say that the replication option has to be
>> specific to PostgreSQL (e.g; cjdbc or synchronous jakarta pooling
>> doesn't go in).
>
> ...and how do you define PostgreSQL exactly?
I replicat
On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 15:13 -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> If it were me, I would say that the replication option has to be
> specific to PostgreSQL (e.g; cjdbc or synchronous jakarta pooling
> doesn't go in).
...and how do you define PostgreSQL exactly?
--
Simon Riggs
Enterpr
On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 00:20 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Here is a new replication documentation section I want to add for 8.2:
>
> ftp://momjian.us/pub/postgresql/mypatches/replication
>
> Comments welcomed.
It's a very good start to a complete minefield of competing solutions.
My first
Simon Riggs wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 12:34 -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>> Looking at that, I'm a) missing PgCluster and b) arguing that we have to
>>> admit that we simply can not 'list .. replication solutions ... and how
>>> to get them' because all of the solutions mentioned need quite
This is a server bug, I will post to hackers for you, it has little
to do with JDBC, however the ? can't be a column in a prepared statement
DAVE
On 24-Oct-06, at 4:45 PM, JEAN-PIERRE PELLETIER wrote:
Hi,
I have a query that throws "org.postgresql.util.PSQLException: An I/
O error occured w
On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 12:34 -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > Looking at that, I'm a) missing PgCluster and b) arguing that we have to
> > admit that we simply can not 'list .. replication solutions ... and how
> > to get them' because all of the solutions mentioned need quite some
> > knowledge an
> >> Why not? The shipped tarball would contain exactly the same
> >> pg_config.h.win32 it does today; the only difference is that the
> >> version info would've been inserted automatically instead of
> >> manually.
>
> > Right. And then you can only build from tarball and not
> from CVS, righ
Title: Re: [HACKERS] Release stamping (Was: [CORE] Schedule for release?)
On 24/10/06 21:59, "Magnus Hagander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Right. And then you can only build from tarball and not from CVS, right?
Because the pg_config.h.win32 with version is actually in cvs. Or an I
missing
"Magnus Hagander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Why not? The shipped tarball would contain exactly the same
>> pg_config.h.win32 it does today; the only difference is that
>> the version info would've been inserted automatically instead
>> of manually.
> Right. And then you can only build from
> >> Sorry - we're just talking about getting the version
> number in there
> >> automatically to avoid it getting forgotten during release
> bundling.
>
> > I can see that being a good idea. But I don't see Toms ./configure
> > solution working.
>
> Why not? The shipped tarball would contai
On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 12:53:23PM -0700, Ron Mayer wrote:
> Anyway, for those who want to see what they do in Linux,
> http://www.gelato.unsw.edu.au/lxr/source/mm/fadvise.c
> Pretty scary that Bruce said it could make older linuxes
> dump core - there isn't a lot of code there.
The bug was prob
On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 14:07 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> "Gregory Maxwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > I'm not aware of any other system which can guaranteed the atomicity
> > of 8k writes.
>
> The reasoning for supporting full_page_writes = off is that if you have
> a stable kernel and suitable b
Zeugswetter Andreas ADI SD wrote:
> POSIX_FADV_WILLNEED definitely sounds very interesting, but:
>
> I think this interface was intended to hint larger areas (megabytes).
> But the "wishful" thinking was not to hint seq scans, but to advise
> single 8k pages.
Surely POSIX_FADV_SEQUENTIAL is the o
Tom Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Simon is essentially arguing that if we are willing to assume no
> incomplete write() we may as well assume it for WAL too. This seems
> to me to be raising the risk significantly, but I admit that I can't
> put my finger on why exactly.
Actually I think we
> Looking at that, I'm a) missing PgCluster and b) arguing that we have to
> admit that we simply can not 'list .. replication solutions ... and how
> to get them' because all of the solutions mentioned need quite some
> knowledge and require a more or less complex installation and
> configuration
Hello Josh,
Josh Berkus wrote:
Hmmm ... while the primer on different types of replication is fine, I
think what users were really looking for is a listing of the different
replication solutions which are available for PostgreSQL and how to get
them.
Well, let's see what we have:
* Shared D
On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 10:13:21PM +0400, Teodor Sigaev wrote:
> Tsearch2 round table should have two presentations, one of them is already
> on site, another: http://www.sigaev.ru/gin/Gin.pdf
Added. Thanks.
By the way, I should have mentioned that there are apparently more
audio files on the w
I followed up with Joshua on Jabber. This is the query:
SELECT pse_userid FROM tbl_profile_search WHERE pse_normalized_text='1'
and pse_interest_type = 10 order by pse_lastlogin DESC limit 50 offset 0
I suggested adding an index on (pse_normalized_text, pse_lastlogin), on
the assumption that th
Bruce,
> Here is my first draft of a new replication section for our
> documentation. I am looking for any comments.
Hmmm ... while the primer on different types of replication is fine, I
think what users were really looking for is a listing of the different
replication solutions which are ava
this. If your materials are not there, it's because we don't have
them. If you send them to me, I'll put them in place as soon as I
receive them. Really, I will. My TODO list doesn't need to get
Tsearch2 round table should have two presentations, one of them is already on
site, another: htt
Sorry for getting into the conversation so late... It was a long weekend in India.On 10/23/06, Tom Lane <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:I didn't particularly trust the timing calculations in your benchmark
program, Any particular reason? (why and what did you doubt in it?). I designed the prog.
"Gregory Maxwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I'm not aware of any other system which can guaranteed the atomicity
> of 8k writes.
The reasoning for supporting full_page_writes = off is that if you have
a stable kernel and suitable backup power, battery backed write cache,
etc, your risk of a pa
Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> Tom Lane wrote:
>>> "Joshua D. Drake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
We have a problem with CE that I want to verify is either expected
behavior, a bug or something else :).
>>> Uh, what's your problem exactly? The example only seems to demo
On 10/24/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I wasn't aware that a system could protect against this. :-)
I write 8 Kbytes - how can I guarantee that the underlying disk writes
all 8 Kbytes before it loses power? And why isn't the CRC a valid means
of dealing with this? :-)
[snip]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm on wrong on one of these assumptions, I'm open to being educated.
> My opinion as of a few seconds ago, is that a write to a single disk
> sector is safe, but that a write that extends across several sectors
> is not.
Unless it's fsync'ed, which is what we do at CHE
On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 14:52 +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 09:37 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> > "Simon Riggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > On Mon, 2006-10-23 at 15:12 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> > >> There are actually three checks used to detect end of WAL: zero record
> > >> leng
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Tom Lane wrote:
> > "Joshua D. Drake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >> We have a problem with CE that I want to verify is either expected
> >> behavior, a bug or something else :).
> >
> > Uh, what's your problem exactly? The example only seems to demonstrate
> > that if
Tom Lane wrote:
> "Joshua D. Drake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> We have a problem with CE that I want to verify is either expected
>> behavior, a bug or something else :).
>
> Uh, what's your problem exactly? The example only seems to demonstrate
> that if you don't ask for a sort, you don't g
On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 12:47 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 05:05:58PM +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 10:18 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 02:52:36PM +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 09:37 -0400, To
"Joshua D. Drake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> We have a problem with CE that I want to verify is either expected
> behavior, a bug or something else :).
Uh, what's your problem exactly? The example only seems to demonstrate
that if you don't ask for a sort, you don't get one.
On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 05:05:58PM +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 10:18 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 02:52:36PM +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 09:37 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> > > > No, because unlike tuples, WAL records can and
Hello,
We have a problem with CE that I want to verify is either expected
behavior, a bug or something else :).
Yes constraint exclusion is on.
I have tried increasing the default_statistics_target (all the way 1000)
no change in behavior.
Query plan with ORDER BY:
Limit (cost=47110.19..4711
On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 10:18 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 02:52:36PM +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
> > On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 09:37 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> > > No, because unlike tuples, WAL records can and do cross page boundaries.
>
> > But not that often, with full_page_
Tom Lane wrote:
> Why not? The shipped tarball would contain exactly the same
> pg_config.h.win32 it does today; the only difference is that the
> version info would've been inserted automatically instead of
> manually.
I suggest you do it in a makefile as part of the distprep target.
distprep:
"Magnus Hagander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Sorry - we're just talking about getting the version number
>> in there automatically to avoid it getting forgotten during
>> release bundling.
> I can see that being a good idea. But I don't see Toms ./configure
> solution working.
Why not? The
> > Getting late into this discussion, so I may be completely
> off here :-)
> > How's that going to work+ pg_config.h.win32 needs to know
> > win32 platform
> > specifics, right? So it has to be created, in that case, on
> win32. But
> > when you're building with MSVC, you don't run configure,
> -Original Message-
> From: Magnus Hagander [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 24 October 2006 15:56
> To: Tom Lane; Dave Page
> Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
> Subject: RE: [HACKERS] Release stamping (Was: [CORE] Schedule
> for release?)
>
> Getting late into this discussion, so
On Tue, Sep 19, 2006 at 12:29:18PM -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
> The slides, all the photos, and even the audio are, I've been
> assured, going to get cleared up in the next few days.
Well, those were some very long days, but it seems a good time to
note that the slides and audio (all that we h
> >> The pg_config.h.win32 file is intended to support building in an
> >> environment where you can't run automake/autoconf, or
> indeed much of
> >> anything else.
>
> > That doesn't matter does it? Marc runs the bootstrap, which inserts
> > the version numbers into the right place and runs
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> The 5 year claim seems
> decades too short unless they are talking about a newer technology.
I think what Simon is on about is CRCs being routinely used on the cable
between the disk drive and the CPU. When I was involved in this stuff
you usually only got a parity bit
Tom Lane wrote:
> Hmm, so manufacture pg_config.h.win32 during tarball build and insert
> the version numbers at that point? Yeah, that would work. Actually
> the easiest thing would likely be to have configure build it the same
> way it builds pg_config.h, and then not remove it in "make
> distc
On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 02:52:36PM +0100, Simon Riggs wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 09:37 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> > "Simon Riggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > On Mon, 2006-10-23 at 15:12 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> > >> There are actually three checks used to detect end of WAL: zero record
> >
Heikki Linnakangas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I would've liked to give freezing a new opcode,
> but we've ran out of them (see htup.h).
Hardly ... we have plenty of unused rmgr id's still.
The real issue that still has to be resolved is the interaction of all
this stuff with PITR scenarios
Hannu Krosing wrote:
I think the "official" term for this kind of "replication" is
Shared-Nothing Clustering.
Well, that's just another distinction for clusters. Most of the time
it's between Shared-Disk vs. Shared-Nothing. You could also see the very
Big Irons as a Shared-Everything Cluster.
On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 09:37 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> "Simon Riggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > On Mon, 2006-10-23 at 15:12 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> >> There are actually three checks used to detect end of WAL: zero record
> >> length, invalid checksum, and incorrect back-pointer. Zero length i
"Dave Page" writes:
> From: Tom Lane [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> The pg_config.h.win32 file is intended to support building in an
>> environment where you can't run automake/autoconf, or indeed much of
>> anything else.
> That doesn't matter does it? Marc runs the bootstrap, which inserts the
> -Original Message-
> From: Tom Lane [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 24 October 2006 14:30
> To: Dave Page
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CORE] Schedule for release?
>
> > In pgAdmin we have a simple bootstrap script the writes all
> the version
> > numbers into a bunch o
Zdenek Kotala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I prepared patch which use oid output function instead regproc output.
> This change works only for COPY TO command.
This is not a bug and we're not going to fix it, most especially not
like that.
regards, tom lane
"Simon Riggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Mon, 2006-10-23 at 15:12 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
>> There are actually three checks used to detect end of WAL: zero record
>> length, invalid checksum, and incorrect back-pointer. Zero length is
>> the first and cleanest-looking test, but AFAICS we hav
Ühel kenal päeval, T, 2006-10-24 kell 00:20, kirjutas Bruce Momjian:
> Here is a new replication documentation section I want to add for 8.2:
>
> ftp://momjian.us/pub/postgresql/mypatches/replication
This is how data partitioning is currently described there
> Data Partitioning
> -
Tom Lane wrote:
Alvaro Herrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Hmm, maybe it should be using regprocedure instead?
Not unless you want to break initdb. The only reason regproc still
exists, really, is to accommodate loading of pg_type during initdb.
Guess what: we can't do type lookup at that poi
Hi, Simon,
Simon Riggs wrote:
> 1. Provide a filter that can be easily used by archive_command to remove
> full page writes from WAL files. This would require us to disable the
> file size test when we begin recovery on a new WAL files, plus would
> need to redesign initial location of the checkp
> If the decision to vacuum based on autovacuum criteria is good enough
> for you then I think you should just focus on getting autovac to do what
> you want it to do. Perhaps you just need to decrease the sleep time to a
> few seconds, so that autovac will quickly detect when something needs to
>
On Mon, 2006-10-23 at 15:12 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> "Simon Riggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > On Mon, 2006-10-23 at 13:52 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> >> No can do --- we rely on the checksums to be able to tell when we've hit
> >> the end of WAL during replay.
>
> > No we don't: Zero length re
Hello Bruce,
Bruce Momjian wrote:
Here is a new replication documentation section I want to add for 8.2:
ftp://momjian.us/pub/postgresql/mypatches/replication
Comments welcomed.
Thank you, that sounds good. It's targeted to production use and
currently available solutions, which mak
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