Re: [HACKERS] Stopgap solution for table-size-estimate updatingproblem

2004-11-30 Thread Zeugswetter Andreas DAZ SD
I think I recall that lseek may have a negative effect on some OS's readahead calculations (probably only systems that cannot handle an lseek to the next page eighter) ? Do you think we should cache the last value to avoid the syscall ? We really can't, since the point of doing it is to

Re: [HACKERS] Stopgap solution for table-size-estimate updatingproblem

2004-11-30 Thread Rupa Schomaker
On 11/29/2004 10:49 AM, Greg Stark wrote: I'll point out other databases end up treading the same ground. Oracle started with a well defined rules-based system that was too inflexible to handle complex queries. So they went to a cost-based optimizer much like Postgres's current optimizer.

Re: [HACKERS] Stopgap solution for table-size-estimate updatingproblem

2004-11-29 Thread Zeugswetter Andreas DAZ SD
One possibility: vacuum already knows how many tuples it removed. We could set reltuples equal to, say, the mean of the number-of-tuples- after-vacuuming and the number-of-tuples-before. In a steady state situation this would represent a fairly reasonable choice. In cases where the table

Re: [HACKERS] Stopgap solution for table-size-estimate updatingproblem

2004-11-29 Thread Tom Lane
Zeugswetter Andreas DAZ SD [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom wrote: But I am used to applications that prepare a query and hold the plan for days or weeks. If you happen to create the plan when the table is by chance empty you lost. You lose in either case, since this proposal doesn't change

Re: [HACKERS] Stopgap solution for table-size-estimate updatingproblem

2004-11-29 Thread Zeugswetter Andreas DAZ SD
This is not true in my case, since I only update statistics/analyze when the tables have representative content (i.e. not empty). I'm unsure why you feel you need a knob to defeat this. The only time when the plan would change from what you think of as the hand-tuned case is when the

Re: [HACKERS] Stopgap solution for table-size-estimate updatingproblem

2004-11-29 Thread Tom Lane
Zeugswetter Andreas DAZ SD [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think I recall that lseek may have a negative effect on some OS's readahead calculations (probably only systems that cannot handle an lseek to the next page eighter) ? Do you think we should cache the last value to avoid the syscall ? We

Re: [HACKERS] Stopgap solution for table-size-estimate updatingproblem

2004-11-29 Thread Greg Stark
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm unsure why you feel you need a knob to defeat this. The only time when the plan would change from what you think of as the hand-tuned case is when the physical table size is greatly different from what it was when you analyzed. The entire point of

Re: [HACKERS] Stopgap solution for table-size-estimate updatingproblem

2004-11-29 Thread Tom Lane
Greg Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm unsure why you feel you need a knob to defeat this. Simply put because the optimizer isn't infallible. And one of the main reasons that it's fallible is because it sometimes uses grossly obsolete statistics. We can

Re: [HACKERS] Stopgap solution for table-size-estimate updatingproblem

2004-11-29 Thread Greg Stark
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Nonsense. You're assuming incremental changes (ie, only a small fractional change in table size), but we are getting killed by non-incremental cases. If the plan cost estimates are such that a small fractional change in table size will cause the planner to