[Pharo-users] Pharo 8.0 via get.pharo.org

Hi everyone, it looks like get.pharo.org suffers from some confusion about its own files. Here's what happens when I try to download the stable VM for macOS: url https://get.pharo.org/64/vm80 | bash [8:01:43] % Total% Received % Xferd Average Speed TimeTime

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo image processing library

Cool! I like that readme. Best, Kasper On 6 February 2020 at 03.26.05, Pablo Navarro (pablo...@gmail.com) wrote: Hi everyone I put available my code for Image Form in GitHub ( https://github.com/pablo1n7/ImageForm). This afternoon, I did the operations with kernels :D. It's not 100% complete

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

I've never posted to /r/smalltalk. There's no point in preaching to the choir. I posted to /r/programming and everybody there tried to lynch me. Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list wrote > FWIW I am one of the mods of /r/smalltalk - happy to have material > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 5,

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

--- Begin Message --- FWIW I am one of the mods of /r/smalltalk - happy to have material Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 5, 2020, at 13:12, horrido wrote: > > Reddit is a strange bird. I have found more resistance to Smalltalk there > than from any other source on the planet. Moreover, those peopl

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo image processing library

Hi everyone I put available my code for Image Form in GitHub (https://github.com/pablo1n7/ImageForm). This afternoon, I did the operations with kernels :D. It's not 100% complete, I'm still working on it. I hope you find it useful and any suggestion is welcomed Best Regards, Pablo. El 25 de e

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

--- Begin Message --- Here we go again... What is wrong with you people? Seriously? With this "Pharo is NOT Smalltalk" BS? If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck! To convince yourself, I urge you all to try to evaluate this in any oth

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

I'm not sure ANSI compliance is particularly useful. Nobody develops an application strictly to the ANSI standard. Ben Coman had to port VisualWorks code to Pharo for my JRMPC competition and it wasn't exactly a cake walk. My friend Bob Nemic got confused between VisualWorks and Pharo because of t

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

Yes, Esteban, maybe I was a bit harsh, in a sense you're right too, However it becomes blurred then wat Smalltalk really is. (e.g. I recommend Pharo as Smalltalk to others) I would prefer -but who am I- that all Smalltalk dialects should implement the ANSI standard as a minimum and at least o

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

I beg to differ. I believe it is possible to re-energize Smalltalk. I believe /marketing/ is the key. Read https://medium.com/@richardeng/yes-it-is-allow-me-to-explain-dbd33ef0ff21 I've always known this was an uphill battle. Ultimately, you may be right, but I choose to be more optimistic. My p

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

st 5. 2. 2020 v 20:42 odesílatel horrido napsal: > > It is your initiative, you should know, nobody asked you to do it > > Well, that's a peculiar attitude. There are many, many programming language > evangelists and I don't think anybody "asked" them to do it. They do it for > the love of the la

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

Reddit is a strange bird. I have found more resistance to Smalltalk there than from any other source on the planet. Moreover, those people *really* don't appreciate me evangelizing anything. Consequently, I've avoided Reddit like the plague. I don't know what kind of readership exists at Reddit, b

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

st 5. 2. 2020 v 20:48 odesílatel horrido napsal: > I learned a long time ago that you can't please everybody. I've heard the > critics about my evangelism. I've also heard the praise. > > So what am I supposed to do? Listen to the critics and ignore the fans? > > If you're an evangelist, you have

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

I'm not sure whose feedback I should regard as wisdom. This uncertainty stems from a key philosophical difference I had 5 years ago. Read Interview with a Smalltalk Evangelist . At the time, I don't think anybod

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

> > I don't think conformance or non-conformance to ANSI is important. This is a > red herring. You think... it was important in lots of past discussions that is at the end pure waste of energy as, unsurprisingly, this thread. > > If Pharo becomes mainstream, nobody will care about ANSI co

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 4:48 PM horrido wrote: > > I learned a long time ago that you can't please everybody. I've heard the > critics about my evangelism. I've also heard the praise. > > So what am I supposed to do? Listen to the critics and ignore the fans? tr;dr answer: know who you listen to.

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

I don't think conformance or non-conformance to ANSI is important. This is a red herring. If Pharo becomes mainstream, nobody will care about ANSI conformance. Ditto for any other flavour of Smalltalk. > Pharo is Pharo, a Smalltalk descendant with its own life And VisualWorks doesn't have its ow

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

I learned a long time ago that you can't please everybody. I've heard the critics about my evangelism. I've also heard the praise. So what am I supposed to do? Listen to the critics and ignore the fans? If you're an evangelist, you have to develop a thick skin and follow your heart. Otherwise, ge

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

> Le 5 févr. 2020 à 19:50, horrido a écrit : > > Yes, these are two completely different issues... > > - Pharo is Smalltalk As you state, you use Smalltalk as the superset of all Smalltalk descendance, what Sven call ‘Concept’ and this is true to me. But, as I understand it (I’m not a board

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

> It is your initiative, you should know, nobody asked you to do it Well, that's a peculiar attitude. There are many, many programming language evangelists and I don't think anybody "asked" them to do it. They do it for the love of the language. I hear what you're saying, and I understand fully.

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

st 5. 2. 2020 v 19:02 odesílatel horrido napsal: > > You want to take the Smalltalk heritage as a definition, that’s ok. We > don’t, and that’s ok too. Is about what we want to do. > > Who's "we"? > > Last time I checked, nobody owns Pharo. Pharo is not a bunch of core > developers; it's a commun

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

Yes, these are two completely different issues... - Pharo is Smalltalk - you don't want general Smalltalk discussion polluting this forum I get it. But as I point out here , Pharo is in a unique position and I would hop

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

> Am 05.02.2020 um 19:02 schrieb horrido : > >  >> >> You want to take the Smalltalk heritage as a definition, that’s ok. We > don’t, and that’s ok too. Is about what we want to do. > > Who's "we"? > As you have obviously trouble reading our web site for instructions like bug reporting or o

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

> Am 05.02.2020 um 18:22 schrieb Steve Davies : > >  > > >> On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 at 19:08, Cédrick Béler wrote: >> https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org >> > > Thanks. > > My problem is I'm a newbie. I thought Pharo was a Smalltalk, containing > code going

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

> On 5 Feb 2020, at 19:01, horrido wrote: > >> You want to take the Smalltalk heritage as a definition, that’s ok. We > don’t, and that’s ok too. Is about what we want to do. > > Who's "we"? > > Last time I checked, nobody owns Pharo. Pharo is not a bunch of core > developers; it's a communi

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

> On 5 Feb 2020, at 18:50, horrido wrote: > > It would be like trying to deny that Clojure, Scheme, and Racket are not > LISP. Only an imbecile would claim they're not. I am pretty sure the mailing lists of Clojure, Scheme or Racket don't want you to go there to discuss Common Lisp or Emacs'

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

> You want to take the Smalltalk heritage as a definition, that’s ok. We don’t, and that’s ok too. Is about what we want to do. Who's "we"? Last time I checked, nobody owns Pharo. Pharo is not a bunch of core developers; it's a community. And I believe there are many Pharoers who share my view.

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

> pharo is not smalltalk I understand that Pharo wants to chart its own future, and that's great, but to deny its heritage only makes Pharo look haughty and foolish because... Pharo *is* Smalltalk in the same way that VisualWorks is Smalltalk and VA Smalltalk is Smalltalk and GemStone/S is Smallt

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

Hi Steve, > On 5 Feb 2020, at 18:21, Steve Davies wrote: > > > > On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 at 19:08, Cédrick Béler wrote: > https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org > > > Thanks. > > My problem is I'm a newbie. I thought Pharo was a Smalltalk, containing > code goin

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 2:22 PM Steve Davies wrote: > I don't know where Pharo stops and Smalltalk starts, so its not easy for me > to tell if my question is a Pharo question of a Smalltalk one. Pharo is the political division(*) , Smalltalk was is the same territory. >From now on you can call

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 at 19:08, Cédrick Béler wrote: > https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org > > Thanks. My problem is I'm a newbie. I thought Pharo was a Smalltalk, containing code going back to ST80. I don't know where Pharo stops and Smalltalk starts, so its not

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

https://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org > Le 5 févr. 2020 à 17:08, Steve Davies a écrit : > >  > Hi, > > Can you point me to how to unsubscribe. Obviously not the list for me. > > Thanks, > Steve > > >> On Wed, 05 Feb 2020, 18:04 Esteban Lorenzano, wrote: >>

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

Hi, Can you point me to how to unsubscribe. Obviously not the list for me. Thanks, Steve On Wed, 05 Feb 2020, 18:04 Esteban Lorenzano, wrote: > We are so over this discussion. > You want to take the Smalltalk heritage as a definition, that’s ok. > We don’t, and that’s ok too. > Is about what

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

We are so over this discussion. You want to take the Smalltalk heritage as a definition, that’s ok. We don’t, and that’s ok too. Is about what we want to do. For any other argument, please take into account this thought from Alan Kay: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMJoLicXsAA7dej?format=jpg&name=

[Pharo-users] R: Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

It will be a pleasure for me. Lorenzo Da: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di Cédrick Béler Inviato: mercoledì 5 febbraio 2020 16:15 A: Any question about pharo is welcome Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-users] Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk Hi Lorenzo, Thanks

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

Pharo IS Smalltalk, whether you like it or not. my 2 cents: This thread is incredibly ridiculous IMHO. Is this becoming something like a religious argument, like church schisms in medieval times? Pharo IS Smalltalk and that is good: That means everyone that is familiar with Smalltalk can use P

[Pharo-users] R: Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

Hi Rich, I share completely your opinion; ST is the real point; let's go on! If you are interested, I have an application (MIDA - Management Integrato Dati Aziendali) which first version has been HP official application for companies in Italy. Ciao package Lorenzo -Messaggio originale-

Re: [Pharo-users] Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

Hi Lorenzo, Thanks for the explanation. > Le 5 févr. 2020 à 16:06, Lorenzo a écrit : > > Hi Cedrick, > > this version is an evolution of an application that I presented maybe at 3° > or 4° ESUG held and promoted in Università Cattolica di Brescia, were I was > professor of O.R. > After th

[Pharo-users] R: Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

Hi Cedrick, this version is an evolution of an application that I presented maybe at 3° or 4° ESUG held and promoted in Università Cattolica di Brescia, were I was professor of O.R. After that, I implemented 3 or 4 new versions using some algorithms I created. I have been very lucky becouse

Re: [Pharo-users] Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

I see two major points here. First, that this forum is supposedly only for Pharo-related matters (not general Smalltalk-related matters), and second, that people want to see actual source code. I think this is too narrow a viewpoint and here's why. First, the Pharo Smalltalk Users forum is, as far

Re: [Pharo-users] Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

> >> On 5 Feb 2020, at 13:28, Lorenzo wrote: >> >> Anyway, if I can say my opinion, the observation ridicolous. > > Even though the article is interesting, there is no mention of the word > 'Pharo' anywhere in the article, nor in any of the 3 slide presentations. Nor > is there any Pharo or

Re: [Pharo-users] R: Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

> On 5 Feb 2020, at 13:28, Lorenzo wrote: > > Anyway, if I can say my opinion, the observation ridicolous. Even though the article is interesting, there is no mention of the word 'Pharo' anywhere in the article, nor in any of the 3 slide presentations. Nor is there any Pharo or even Smallta

[Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

I think it is time again to remind people on this list about a subtle but important difference: pharo is not smalltalk You can read this either way and like it or not. But this is a pharo list which wants to focus on the development and usage of pharo. It is not the place for "all things small

[Pharo-users] R: Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

Hi Serge, I suggest you to live in Italy, where burocracy is at it best. Lorenzo Da: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di Serge Stinckwich Inviato: mercoledì 5 febbraio 2020 13:15 A: Any question about pharo is welcome Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-users] Fuzzy

[Pharo-users] R: Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

Thank you Peter, I am astonished. Lorenzo Da: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di PBKResearch Inviato: mercoledì 5 febbraio 2020 12:59 A: 'Any question about pharo is welcome' Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-users] Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk Norbert Is t

[Pharo-users] R: Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

I am sorry, but I had just finished to create a SMALLTALK application with Richard and I have asked him for a previous work I have done with him. Anyway, if I can say my opinion, the observation ridicolous. Lorenzo Da: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di

Re: [Pharo-users] Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

Hi Peter, don't want to discuss about that endlessly :-) We receive already all a lot of emails from various lists. There may be a few off-topic messages, but let's try to focus mainly on Pharo on pharo-users mailing-list. There was a message from Stephane about that some days ago and I agree with

Re: [Pharo-users] Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

Norbert Is that really all you can see? If you trace back this thread, it began with a post (less than 24 hours ago) by Richard Kenneth Eng, drawing attention to a blog post by Lorenzo, whose title is also the subject of the thread: https://smalltalk.tech.blog/2020/02/04/fuzzy-thinking-in-sm

Re: [Pharo-users] Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

> Am 05.02.2020 um 10:53 schrieb Lorenzo : > > I am sorry; I was not awer of this kind of problem. > Do you think that an application in Smalltalk is not interesting for Pharo > users even if it has been developped in Pharo? > which application? I just read about things you've lost and wordpr

[Pharo-users] R: Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

I am sorry; I was not awer of this kind of problem. Do you think that an application in Smalltalk is not interesting for Pharo users even if it has been developped in Pharo? Lorenzo Da: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di Norbert Hartl Inviato: mercol

Re: [Pharo-users] Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

This is a mailing list for people that want to talk about pharo, seeking help for pharo or anything pharo related. What you are talking about is not pharo related and that's why I ask you to keep that off list if possible. Norbert > Am 05.02.2020 um 09:19 schrieb Lorenzo : > > Excuse me, but I

[Pharo-users] R: R: R: Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

Excuse me, but I do not understand what are you meaning; can you explain to me? Da: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di Norbert Hartl Inviato: martedì 4 febbraio 2020 23:43 A: Any question about pharo is welcome Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-users] R: R: Fuzzy Th

[Pharo-users] R: R: R: Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk

Just that! Thank you very much. Lorenzo -Messaggio originale- Da: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-boun...@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di horrido Inviato: martedì 4 febbraio 2020 18:45 A: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-users] R: R: Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk Do you mean