RE: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

; To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision > > Am Mittwoch, 5. Juni 2002 14:26 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > "Peace through superior firepower"? That's a trademarked > > > american conce

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Am Mittwoch, 5. Juni 2002 14:26 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > "Peace through superior firepower"? That's a trademarked > > american concept at the moment, I think. > > > > Kristian > > Can we please keep the anti-american comments to ourselves. Or else! :-) Kristian -- PHP Development

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

> > > > "Peace through superior firepower"? That's a trademarked american > > concept at the moment, I think. > > > > Kristian > > Can we please keep the anti-american comments to ourselves. > Well, he can't help it, making broad generalizations about a culture is a trademarked german

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

> > "Peace through superior firepower"? That's a trademarked american > concept at the moment, I think. > > Kristian Can we please keep the anti-american comments to ourselves. -- PHP Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

John Lim Wrote: > If the cluster cannot handle the load, then the queues will just get > longer and longer. It's interesting that mlwmohawk asked about this > because msession is a lightweight session handler without rdbms > overhead. Similarly queuing is used instead of a real database fo

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

"Ilia A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > Hi Ilia, > > > > Don't know, but it sure looks like encrypted mud. This isn't a.out you > > know. > > > > Perhaps we should ask Zeev or Andi :-) > > That could very well be the case, but anyone who can

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

"Dan Kalowsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, John Lim wrote: > > Say you are Amazon or some similar company and has a fancy cluster for order > > processing. As orders come in, the cluster cannot handle the peak load, so >

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, John Lim wrote: > Say you are Amazon or some similar company and has a fancy cluster for order > processing. As orders come in, the cluster cannot handle the peak load, so > we need to queue the orders using some such technology until the cluster can > process them. These queue

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

> Hi Ilia, > > Don't know, but it sure looks like encrypted mud. This isn't a.out you > know. > > Perhaps we should ask Zeev or Andi :-) That could very well be the case, but anyone who can compile php/zend with debugging symbols and has a debuger like gdb or ddd will be able to easily grab the

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

"Ilia A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > John, > > If your authentication class holds the passwords inside wouldn't running the > 'strings' utility on the file reveal all the passwords even if the php script > is Zend Encoded? > > Ilia Hi Ilia

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > John Lim Wrote: > > Hi, > > > - advanced queueing > Queuing of what? > Say you are Amazon or some similar company and has a fancy cluster for order processing. As orders come in, the cluster cannot handle the pe

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > > I am not a fan of 100% fully redundant systems. I think the expense of > such systems are rarely justified, and unless you have REALLY done the > work to understand what all your points of failure are, you are wasting > your time and money. Hello mlwmohaw

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

John Lim Wrote: > Hi, > > I like the PHP language the way it is with some exceptions. Private > members and methods are essential from a security view-point, and > perhaps > application variables, but that's about it. My main problem with PHP's > direction is that it seems stuck at the l

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

At 12:34 PM 6/4/2002, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: >Kristian Koehntopp wrote: > > "Peace through superior firepower"? That's a trademarked american > > concept at the moment, I think. > > Pax Americana replaced Pax Romana a while ago :) 'cept there's no pax... -- PHP Development Mailing List

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Kristian Koehntopp wrote: > "Peace through superior firepower"? That's a trademarked american > concept at the moment, I think. Pax Americana replaced Pax Romana a while ago :) -- Sebastian Bergmann http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/ Did I help you?

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Am Montag, 3. Juni 2002 18:11 schrieb Sebastian Bergmann: > Zeev Suraski wrote: > > Hmm, because he's bigger? :) > > I can live with that :) "Peace through superior firepower"? That's a trademarked american concept at the moment, I think. Kristian -- PHP Development Mailing List

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

> Making PHP work a certain way because a specific platform doesn't have the > different items should not be a deciding factor. wrong. It's absolutely a major factor. Shane -- PHP Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

[Fwd: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision]

I admit I haven't been following this thread closely, but I agree and don't think PHP should be trying to write a transaction system itself. I do think it should try to interface with existing systems tho so PHP can become the front-end for them. I have a good start on a Tuxedo interface (php-

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

> just look at the most known opensource web applications written in > php. how many of them are coded not using objects? > the ones that don't use objects are most likely coming from the old > php3 times, like phpmyadmin. > > so developers are eager to use oop features of php, despite the fact >

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

At 17:52 3-6-2002, [EMAIL PROTECTED] shared with all of us: >The Zend engine is pretty strong, except for OO things, as it was not >designed with that in mind. Now I don't think OO is clutter, it's quite >nice, but IMO there are other things more important (for example the 1178 >open bug reports)

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

At 03:27 PM 6/3/2002 +0300, Jani Taskinen wrote: >On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Andi Gutmans wrote: > > >> >the web but more for Enterprise transaction based applications such as > >> >billing systems. > >> > >> Twisting your words a bit: You don't think PHP should be used for such > >> tasks ?? > >

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

John, If your authentication class holds the passwords inside wouldn't running the 'strings' utility on the file reveal all the passwords even if the php script is Zend Encoded? Ilia On June 3, 2002 04:44 am, John Lim wrote: > Hi Sebastian, > > Unfortunately some people are paranoid about sec

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Mon, 2002-06-03 at 09:39, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: > Jani Taskinen wrote: > > Currently, the bundled mysql is not been updated. (it's 3.23.39) > > Latest stable release is 3.23.49, AFAIK. > > I am told that Monty will see to it that Zak gets it updated before the > next release :-) Yep

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Zeev Suraski wrote: > Hmm, because he's bigger? :) I can live with that :) -- Sebastian Bergmann http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/ Did I help you? Consider a gift: http://wishlist.sebastian-bergmann.de/ -- PHP Development Mailing List

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, brad lafountain wrote: [...] > It's kinda frustrating to me, I like php alot and php defintly has the > potentional to be used for a wide virity of soultions. Then you guys are going > back and forth saying that OO design has a minimanl affect on the community and > that OO i

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

At 06:43 PM 6/3/2002, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: >Zeev Suraski wrote: > > Amen to that! > > Why does Kristian recieve an "Amen to that!" for saying the same things > I did? :-) Hmm, because he's bigger? :) Zeev -- PHP Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: ht

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Zeev Suraski wrote: > Amen to that! Why does Kristian recieve an "Amen to that!" for saying the same things I did? :-) (Maybe the padavan should express himself more clearly.) -- Sebastian Bergmann http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/ Did I help

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Jani Taskinen wrote: > Currently, the bundled mysql is not been updated. (it's 3.23.39) > Latest stable release is 3.23.49, AFAIK. I am told that Monty will see to it that Zak gets it updated before the next release :-) -- Sebastian Bergmann http://sebastian-bergmann.de/

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, brad lafountain wrote: > > > I'm bother by the fact that you guys keep on saying Php isn't Java so > don't > > use lets not use private methods or interfaces. Java is Object Oriented. > Java > > didn't invent private methods, private members an

RE: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

el. : +49 30 83 22 50 00 Fax : +49 30 83 22 50 07 www.dybnet.de [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -Original Message- > From: Zeev Suraski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 5:12 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV]

RE: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

At 06:03 PM 6/3/2002, Lukas Smith wrote: >(I wonder why none of them read this >list and said that they want to make PHP Enterprise ready ...) You're kidding, right? (it doesn't mean that that's what we're going to do). Zeev -- PHP Development Mailing List To unsubscrib

RE: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

chotte [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 4:59 PM > To: Rasmus Lerdorf > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision > > * Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > > I find this argument not only > > stupid, but extremely offensive. > >

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

> > > PHP != Java. :) > I'm bother by the fact that you guys keep on saying Php isn't Java so don't > use lets not use private methods or interfaces. Java is Object Oriented. Java > didn't invent private methods, private members and all the other goodies that > go along with OO development

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

* Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > I find this argument not only > stupid, but extremely offensive. I don't want to offense those people out there that use PHP but don't know how to program at all. I only want to share my observations I've made in the last year(s). As already said, I don't have a solutio

RE: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

: +49 30 83 22 50 07 www.dybnet.de [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -Original Message- > From: Rasmus Lerdorf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 4:50 PM > To: Björn Schotte > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision > > I have heard th

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

I have heard this argument a couple of times now. It basically boils down to, "PHP is too easy to use which means that non-programmers end up writing bad code and this hurts PHP". I find this argument not only stupid, but extremely offensive. PHP enables people to bring their ideas to life even

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, brad lafountain wrote: > I'm bother by the fact that you guys keep on saying Php isn't Java so don't > use lets not use private methods or interfaces. Java is Object Oriented. Java > didn't invent private methods, private members and all the other goodies that > go along with

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Monday 03 June 2002 3:35 pm, brad lafountain wrote: > Now good OO design is the > best way to get good code re-use out of your time developing. In your opinion! In my opinion the best way is to think hard and design your stuff well. For this I don't need my language fattening up and slowing

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Hi Jani, > Any examples? Is PHP too easy to use? :) > I find that hard swallow. It's one of the main features > why I am using PHP. Yep, but IMHO it's also one of its main 'bugs' in the sense of lacking its image. Web designer, Photoshoppers and every "allrounder" in small to mid-si

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

--- Edin Kadribasic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> And doesn't ZE2 address almost all of those OO related things? > > > > > > It does. Personally, I'm missing two things in Zend Engine 2.0: > > > interfaces and private methods. Both are not really critical, as they > > > don't aim at solvin

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

> >> And doesn't ZE2 address almost all of those OO related things? > > > > It does. Personally, I'm missing two things in Zend Engine 2.0: > > interfaces and private methods. Both are not really critical, as they > > don't aim at solving technical problems, but social ones during the > > desi

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Björn Schotte wrote: >Hi, > >* Jani Taskinen wrote: >> What do you mean with 'better release management' ? > >Extensions that get broken from one minor release to >another minor release is not a very good thing. That's a problem with the lack of proper QA. And als

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

At 04:28 PM 6/3/2002, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> I am curious, besides some language quarks, like multidimentional > >> arrays, what sorts of things can you do in Java which can not be done > >> in PHP? > > > > I'm actually curious about the multidimensional arrays point. Exactly > > what do y

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: >Jani Taskinen wrote: >> Is something/someone preventing anyone from doing all this? > > Look at the discussion that followed the proposition of bundling > libxml/libxslt with PHP. Does bundling anything really solve any problems? Or does i

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

>> I am curious, besides some language quarks, like multidimentional >> arrays, what sorts of things can you do in Java which can not be done >> in PHP? > > I'm actually curious about the multidimensional arrays point. Exactly > what do you mean? PHP can obviously do $a[1][2][3][4]... M

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

>> I am curious, besides some language quarks, like multidimentional >> arrays, what sorts of things can you do in Java which can not be done >> in PHP? > > I'm actually curious about the multidimensional arrays point. Exactly > what do you mean? PHP can obviously do $a[1][2][3][4]... M

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Andi Gutmans wrote: >> >the web but more for Enterprise transaction based applications such as >> >billing systems. >> >> Twisting your words a bit: You don't think PHP should be used for such >> tasks ?? > >No I definitely don't. And in most cases I wouldn't use J2EE

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision (was: libxml bundling)

At 12:28 PM 6/3/2002, Kristian Koehntopp wrote: >I think that PHP should be only as "newbie hostile" as security >dictates (register_globals off and similar stuff). It should be >as convenient and easy to use as possible. > >It should also provide hooks and means to reconfigure it >manually for th

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 04:44:05PM +0800, John Lim wrote: > We might not want people to fiddle around with the internals of a class, > for example an authentication class which holds the passwords of users. > Even if the whole web site is Zend Encoded, doing a var_dump on $GLOBALS > will reveal a

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 02:38:50PM +0800, John Lim wrote: > Let me explain. I'm developing extranets with PHP and occasionally I get a > checklist of required features from a customer. Features such as: > > - clustering, > - management of server farms, > - transparent fail-over, > - load bala

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Melvyn Sopacua wrote: > At 10:18 3-6-2002, Markus Fischer shared with all of us: > > >This is true, but ... there is absolutely _nothing_ we can do > > about it. The QA Team is, well .. sometimes I get the > > impression it's only one person! > > Derick had a goo

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision (was: libxml bundling)

On Sun, Jun 02, 2002 at 12:17:34AM +0300, Zeev Suraski wrote: > >The ease of PHP - one of its biggest advantages is also > >one of its biggest disadvantages. IMHO. > > Do you mind elaborating on that?? > > I think we should hash out this issue as soon as possible, > because if people have a visi

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

John, Whether we end up having private methods or not, it's way beyond their scope to address the issue of security, and protecting data from someone who has access to their code. It's always possible to work around that level of 'security', whether it's in C++, Java or any other language.

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

At 10:18 3-6-2002, Markus Fischer shared with all of us: >This is true, but ... there is absolutely _nothing_ we can do > about it. The QA Team is, well .. sometimes I get the > impression it's only one person! Derick had a good thing going, when he emailed people who reported proble

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

At 09:48 AM 6/3/2002, Björn Schotte wrote: > > >more complexity to the language itself. > > Why would making PHP more complex be a good thing? > >Because not every web designer and semi-programmer could >then work with PHP - this lacks the image of PHP. ("PHP >ist only good for guestbooks and

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Hi Sebastian, Unfortunately some people are paranoid about security. We might not want people to fiddle around with the internals of a class, for example an authentication class which holds the passwords of users. Even if the whole web site is Zend Encoded, doing a var_dump on $GLOBALS will rev

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 08:48:48AM +0200, Björn Schotte wrote : > Hi, > > * Jani Taskinen wrote: > > What do you mean with 'better release management' ? > > Extensions that get broken from one minor release to > another minor release is not a very good thing. This is true, but ... ther

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Hi, > > And doesn't ZE2 address almost all of those OO related things? > > It does. Personally, I'm missing two things in Zend Engine 2.0: > interfaces and private methods. Both are not really critical, as they > don't aim at solving technical problems, but social ones during the > design

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

One problem you run into with this kind of project is making the project be a "BE-ALL-END-ALL" to every problem. (Kind of recursive, eh) > - clustering, > - management of server farms, > - transparent fail-over, > - load balancing > - application deployment without restarting server > - ad

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

John Lim wrote: > Private members and methods are essential from a security view-point, Why? They solve social issues between developers. > and perhaps application variables, but that's about it. SRM adds Application Variables to the PHP Platform. -- Sebastian Bergmann http://sebasti

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Hi, * Jani Taskinen wrote: > What do you mean with 'better release management' ? Extensions that get broken from one minor release to another minor release is not a very good thing. > >more complexity to the language itself. > Why would making PHP more complex be a good thing? Bec

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

"Jani Taskinen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: > > So what really ARE the needs of more advanced developers? > (I'm starting to sound like a broken record now :) > > --Jani > > Hi, I li

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I am curious, besides some language quarks, like multidimentional > arrays, What's your problem with multi-dimensional arrays in PHP? -- Sebastian Bergmann http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.de/ Did I help you? Consider a gif

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Zeev Suraski wrote: > Ok, just wondering, can you explain why, for an average person, > learning PHP takes an average of the time it takes to learn Java? Java has a much higher learning curve, because it more or less forces the programmer to use object orientation. Which, for medium to large

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

"Stig S. Bakken" wrote: > PHP has a _much_ higher cost for using objects. This has design > implications that rules out designing your PHP code as you would do > for Java. Ah, here comes the beauty of SRM to play: I don't care about object creation costs, if I have to create my objects only

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Jani Taskinen wrote: > Is something/someone preventing anyone from doing all this? Look at the discussion that followed the proposition of bundling libxml/libxslt with PHP. > And doesn't ZE2 address almost all of those OO related things? It does. Personally, I'm missing two things in Zend

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Jani Taskinen wrote: > SRM already exists... What it needs is people to really > use it and report the bugs and missing features..and also > some free time for the people working on it. :) I'll have some time planned to spend on this soon. -- Sebastian Bergmann http://sebastian-bergmann.d

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Björn Schotte wrote: > Perhaps some more complexity to the language itself. I don't think adding new language keywords (like 'private' or 'delete' in Zend Engine 2) make the language more complex. -- Sebastian Bergmann http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://phpOpenTracker.

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

> I am curious, besides some language quarks, like multidimentional arrays, > what sorts of things can you do in Java which can not be done in PHP? I'm actually curious about the multidimensional arrays point. Exactly what do you mean? PHP can obviously do $a[1][2][3][4]... -Rasmus -- PHP D

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

At 03:36 AM 6/3/2002 +0300, Jani Taskinen wrote: >On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Andi Gutmans wrote: > > >At 04:21 PM 6/2/2002 +0200, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: > >>Jani Taskinen wrote: > >> > I'm not that familiar with Java..so it would be nice to hear > >> > what Java offers that PHP doesn't? > >> > >> Pr

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Björn Schotte wrote: >new machine) things like Application Server functionality >(VL-SRM), native .NET and WebServices Support, better SRM already exists... What it needs is people to really use it and report the bugs and missing features..and also some free time

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Andi Gutmans wrote: >At 04:21 PM 6/2/2002 +0200, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: >>Jani Taskinen wrote: >> > I'm not that familiar with Java..so it would be nice to hear >> > what Java offers that PHP doesn't? >> >> Private members and methods, interfaces, Application Servers, Bea

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: >Jani Taskinen wrote: >> I'm not that familiar with Java..so it would be nice to hear >> what Java offers that PHP doesn't? > > Private members and methods, interfaces, Application Servers, Beans, > Enterprise Beans. > > And coming back to the origi

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

> Sebastian Bergmann Wrote: > I love PHP, but I would like to design and implement my application > the same way I could do with Java. I think this is the problem. PHP is not Java, so it follows you would probably need a different approach. When I code something in assembler,

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

> Stig S. Bakken Wrote: > But that is what you'll never get with PHP. Just look at how fast > creating objects is in Java. Java revolves aroun on objects, they are > created and destructed implicitly during execution of overloaded > operators and everything. PHP has a _much_ higher cost fo

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

> There are also a number of people for whom the above is not enough. > They strive for the possibilities the Java platform offers, without > being forced to develop in a closed-source environment. As I said > before, I really like Java as a language, but don't want to use the > Java

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Sun, 2002-06-02 at 23:13, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: > Zeev Suraski wrote: > > PHP can become stronger, but it will NEVER make a shift and become > > Java. > > I don't want it to become Java. > > I want PHP to stay as simple as possible for beginners, simpler if > possible as Shane poin

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

At 12:13 AM 6/3/2002, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: > But, as I said before, I don't understand why simplicity should mean in > its consequence that software designs you find these days in the Java > World cannot be done with PHP. The essence (in one sentence) of what I > would like to see: >

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Zeev Suraski wrote: > PHP can become stronger, but it will NEVER make a shift and become > Java. I don't want it to become Java. I want PHP to stay as simple as possible for beginners, simpler if possible as Shane pointed out. Regarding this I think once the PEAR/PECL infrastructure is

RE: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

age- > From: Zeev Suraski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 10:39 PM > To: Björn Schotte > Cc: Jani Taskinen; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision > > At 09:23 PM 6/2/2002, Björn Schotte wrote: > >* Jani Taskinen wrote: > &g

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Zeev Suraski wrote: > A multithreaded server running code is hardly what EJB is about. No, but when people use the words "PHP" and "Application Server" in conjunction, they mean a server that provides persistence for PHP objects in the way SRM provides. SRM's Bananas have in my opinion the

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

At 09:23 PM 6/2/2002, Björn Schotte wrote: >* Jani Taskinen wrote: > > Could you explain in more detail what exactly these needs > > would be? > >As Sebastian mentioned (sorry I couldn't reply earlier, >we are currently moving PHP-Center/PHP-Conference to a >new machine) things like Applic

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

At 09:13 PM 6/2/2002, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: >Andi Gutmans wrote: > > Are you aware how complex and expensive it is to create a Java > > application server solution? > > Probably not. But I know that Derick et al. are doing a good job adding > Application Server-like functionality to the "P

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

At 05:21 PM 6/2/2002, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: >Jani Taskinen wrote: > > I'm not that familiar with Java..so it would be nice to hear > > what Java offers that PHP doesn't? > > Private members and methods, interfaces, Application Servers, Beans, > Enterprise Beans. Seriously, Sebastian, if t

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Markus Fischer wrote: > On Sun, Jun 02, 2002 at 04:21:48PM +0200, Sebastian Bergmann wrote : > >>Jani Taskinen wrote: >> >>>I'm not that familiar with Java..so it would be nice to hear >>>what Java offers that PHP doesn't? >> >> And coming back to the original topic of this thread: perfect supp

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

* Jani Taskinen wrote: > Could you explain in more detail what exactly these needs > would be? As Sebastian mentioned (sorry I couldn't reply earlier, we are currently moving PHP-Center/PHP-Conference to a new machine) things like Application Server functionality (VL-SRM), native .NET an

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

> Jani Taskinen wrote: >> I'm not that familiar with Java..so it would be nice to hear >> what Java offers that PHP doesn't? > > Private members and methods, interfaces, Application Servers, Beans, > Enterprise Beans. > > And coming back to the original topic of this thread: perfect

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Andi Gutmans wrote: > Are you aware how complex and expensive it is to create a Java > application server solution? Probably not. But I know that Derick et al. are doing a good job adding Application Server-like functionality to the "PHP Platform" with SRM. -- Sebastian Bergmann http:/

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

At 04:21 PM 6/2/2002 +0200, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: >Jani Taskinen wrote: > > I'm not that familiar with Java..so it would be nice to hear > > what Java offers that PHP doesn't? > > Private members and methods, interfaces, Application Servers, Beans, > Enterprise Beans. Are you aware how co

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Sun, Jun 02, 2002 at 04:21:48PM +0200, Sebastian Bergmann wrote : > Jani Taskinen wrote: > > I'm not that familiar with Java..so it would be nice to hear > > what Java offers that PHP doesn't? > > And coming back to the original topic of this thread: perfect support > for XML and all rela

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Jani Taskinen wrote: > I'm not that familiar with Java..so it would be nice to hear > what Java offers that PHP doesn't? Private members and methods, interfaces, Application Servers, Beans, Enterprise Beans. And coming back to the original topic of this thread: perfect support for XML an

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: > layout with some logic. For many of those, PHP is / was the first > programming language they learned. I wonder if that's good or bad thing? :) > There are also a number of people for whom the above is not enough. > They strive for the po

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Björn Schotte wrote: >It's great that PHP is so easy to learn and that you can >get good results without investing too much time (and therefore, >too much money). But as web sites get more and more complex >(guestbooks are boring, integrating PHP applications into complex >infr

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

* Sebastian Bergmann wrote: > For most PHP programmers, mixing PHP and HTML (or using a template > system of some kind to avoid this) is enough. These are the users of > the "quick, powerful platform for creating web sites, in use by > hundreds of thousands of people around the world." I

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision

Zeev Suraski wrote: >> The ease of PHP - one of its biggest advantages is also >> one of its biggest disadvantages. IMHO. > > Do you mind elaborating on that?? PHP has become as popular as it is today because it is easy to learn. It is very attractive for HTML "programmers" who want to mix th

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision (was: libxml bundling)

On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Zeev Suraski wrote: > At 07:12 PM 6/1/2002, Björn Schotte wrote: > >The ease of PHP - one of its biggest advantages is also > >one of its biggest disadvantages. IMHO. > > Do you mind elaborating on that?? While I shouldn't speak for others, I can share my take on this. PHP's

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision (was: libxml bundling)

I agree with every word. Zeev At 12:25 AM 6/2/2002, Shane Caraveo wrote: >I think PHP can be both powerful and easy to use, and I think I have an >example of that in my own experience. I've got code I wrote on PHP 2 >years ago, that has gone through a couple face lifts and modifications to >

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's vision (was: libxml bundling)

> > The PHP project does not exist to create the perfect incarnation of a > computer language on the planet, for CS majors to drool over and utter > 'Wow!' at. It exists as a quick, powerful platform for creating web > sites, in use by hundreds of thousands of people around the world. For