php-general Digest 17 Dec 2009 03:47:27 -0000 Issue 6492
Topics (messages 300549 through 300554):
Re: MySQL Appeal from Monty
300549 by: Philip Thompson
300552 by: Yousif Masoud
300553 by: Philip Thompson
Re: PHP + ODBC
300550 by: Andrew Ballard
300551 by: Philip Thompson
[JOB] Senior LAMP Developer needed immediately in Seattle, WA or Lake Forest, CA
300554 by: Daevid Vincent
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
On Dec 15, 2009, at 6:03 AM, Ashley Sheridan wrote:
> On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 02:53 +0000, Joseph Masoud wrote:
>>
>> On 14 Dec 2009, at 22:01, Ashley Sheridan <a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 15:59 -0600, Philip Thompson wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:51 AM, Lester Caine wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Lenin wrote:
>> >>>> You might also like this:
>> >>>> Come on Monty - Lukas Smith http://bit.ly/5lmwwD
>> >>>
>> >>> I've been watching some of this debate with interest, but I'll
>> >>> stay with a database that has none of the baggage that MySQL has
>> >>> always had, and IS currently replacing Oracle in many large sites :)
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Lester Caine - G8HFL
>> >>
>> >> Do share your db of interest... (and please don't say MSSQL).
>> >>
>> >> ~Philip
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > MSSQL has nearly brought me to tears and could have easily made me
>> > bald
>> > through hair pulling!
>> >
>> > I have to say, I do like MySQL, it's very flexible and fast, and being
>> > able to choose different storage engines for different tables in the
>> > same DB is brilliant! I really don't think there's anything to overly
>> > worry about from Oracle, as the two DB's have different audiences.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Ash
>> > http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
>> >
>> >
>> Unfortunately, I do not share your optimism. I believe that Oracle
>> taking over MySQL would be a disaster of epic proportions.
>>
>> The "different audiences" theory has been bought up several times but
>> I haven't [to date] seen a sound justification for it. Oracle wants
>> everyone to use ... Oracle, I can't see how this "different audiences"
>> theory is going to make Oracle promote MySQL, perhaps someone can tell
>> me?
>>
>> I don't think the EU would be able to do anything about it. The
>> powerful companies almost always get what they want.
>>
>> I don't think Monty wouldn't be doing this unless he felt that
>> something [put mildly] bad is coming.
>>
>> What has happened, has happened. Trying to figure out who is to blame
>> for this mess is pointless. Ideally, It would be nice if Oracle took
>> its claws off MySQL and found another project to ruin.
>>
>> Note: I am *not* trying to spread FUD
>
> I've always been led to believe that you go with MySQL if you want speed,
> Oracle if you want data integrity. I know they both handle each one
> admirably, but Oracle is known more for guarding the data against mishaps and
> MySQL is known more for performance. I just think it may be a little early to
> be condemning Oracle yet, we should wait a little to at least see what stance
> they have on the whole thing. And before you ask, no I have no connection to
> Oracle, I'm an avid MySQL fan!
>
> Thanks,
> Ash
> http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
>
Let's not forget one of the biggest decisions on why people choose MySQL over
Oracle/MSSQL.... it's way cheap. So cheap they're nearly giving it away. Oh
wait! They ARE giving it away. You start to piss people off whenever you take
away their working, free option. Also by being open source, you have plenty of
people that have the opportunity to work with it. The biggest reason I haven't
messed with Oracle (except in college for my db class) is that it's expensive.
Don't underestimate how cheap people are. There's your "different audience."
~Philip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Philip Thompson <philthath...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On Dec 15, 2009, at 6:03 AM, Ashley Sheridan wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 02:53 +0000, Joseph Masoud wrote:
> >>
> >> On 14 Dec 2009, at 22:01, Ashley Sheridan <a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 15:59 -0600, Philip Thompson wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:51 AM, Lester Caine wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Lenin wrote:
> >> >>>> You might also like this:
> >> >>>> Come on Monty - Lukas Smith http://bit.ly/5lmwwD
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I've been watching some of this debate with interest, but I'll
> >> >>> stay with a database that has none of the baggage that MySQL has
> >> >>> always had, and IS currently replacing Oracle in many large sites :)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> Lester Caine - G8HFL
> >> >>
> >> >> Do share your db of interest... (and please don't say MSSQL).
> >> >>
> >> >> ~Philip
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > MSSQL has nearly brought me to tears and could have easily made me
> >> > bald
> >> > through hair pulling!
> >> >
> >> > I have to say, I do like MySQL, it's very flexible and fast, and being
> >> > able to choose different storage engines for different tables in the
> >> > same DB is brilliant! I really don't think there's anything to overly
> >> > worry about from Oracle, as the two DB's have different audiences.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Ash
> >> > http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
> >> >
> >> >
> >> Unfortunately, I do not share your optimism. I believe that Oracle
> >> taking over MySQL would be a disaster of epic proportions.
> >>
> >> The "different audiences" theory has been bought up several times but
> >> I haven't [to date] seen a sound justification for it. Oracle wants
> >> everyone to use ... Oracle, I can't see how this "different audiences"
> >> theory is going to make Oracle promote MySQL, perhaps someone can tell
> >> me?
> >>
> >> I don't think the EU would be able to do anything about it. The
> >> powerful companies almost always get what they want.
> >>
> >> I don't think Monty wouldn't be doing this unless he felt that
> >> something [put mildly] bad is coming.
> >>
> >> What has happened, has happened. Trying to figure out who is to blame
> >> for this mess is pointless. Ideally, It would be nice if Oracle took
> >> its claws off MySQL and found another project to ruin.
> >>
> >> Note: I am *not* trying to spread FUD
> >
> > I've always been led to believe that you go with MySQL if you want speed,
> Oracle if you want data integrity. I know they both handle each one
> admirably, but Oracle is known more for guarding the data against mishaps
> and MySQL is known more for performance. I just think it may be a little
> early to be condemning Oracle yet, we should wait a little to at least see
> what stance they have on the whole thing. And before you ask, no I have no
> connection to Oracle, I'm an avid MySQL fan!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ash
> > http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
> >
>
> Let's not forget one of the biggest decisions on why people choose MySQL
> over Oracle/MSSQL.... it's way cheap. So cheap they're nearly giving it
> away. Oh wait! They ARE giving it away. You start to piss people off
> whenever you take away their working, free option. Also by being open
> source, you have plenty of people that have the opportunity to work with it.
> The biggest reason I haven't messed with Oracle (except in college for my db
> class) is that it's expensive. Don't underestimate how cheap people are.
> There's your "different audience."
>
> ~Philip
Your rant has been repeated so many times that it is becoming like a
corporate mantra. Some of the biggest software companies in the world use
open source software (which is free as in free beer). Are companies that
use Linux or FreeBSD as their server software "cheap"? For the remainder of
my argument, I will assume that your assertions only apply to database
servers (I'm not sure why you've chosen to single them out).
It is disheartening that developers who decide to use open source software
are castigated as "cheap". Well in my case, I like to know what's under the
bonnet. That's just me, not a generalization and I emphasize that I am not
speaking on behalf of anyone.
The tenets of a successful argument include a viable theory substantiated by
reliable and independently verifiable facts (none of which exist in your
rant). I will, nevertheless, try to make sense of your logic [in my own
mind[.
I think you are making 2 assertions and then clumsily using them to prove
your claim.
Assertion 1: It is inconvenient when a successful, widely adopted and very
convenient open source solution is taken away from the community (I am aware
that there are no explicit plans to kill the project, but this is my
perception based on how Oracle treated InnoDB).
True. This is not only inconvenient, it is rude, immoral and very selfish.
Now, you tell me who's being "cheap"? Developers who implement MySQL (for
whatever reason) or Oracle by viciously going after businesses that are
happily using MySQL?
Assertion 2: People who implement Open Source Software are tawdry.
This is absurd. Period. Cost is one of the more important factors when
choosing a software solution to implement, irrespective of company or
project size. Suggesting that developers who use Open Source Software are
inferior to their counterparts using propriety software is stunning. To
convince me of this you will need to conduct a thorough survey comparing the
skill of developers from both camps. It would be exceptionally difficult to
produce the criteria that will differentiate between the two and give
reliable results that prove your claim beyond reasonable doubt.
You are claiming that the assertions above are enough to differentiate
between a typical MySQL and Oracle user. I am not convinced. Lack of
funding is a problem faced by every company in the world, it is therefore
logically flawed to use that as a differentiating factor between the
audiences.
You have failed to demonstrate how your assertions would enable Oracle to
promote and nurture MySQL so that it becomes the better database solution.
If you can't see the conflict of interest then you are knowingly choosing to
ignore reality.
With a heavy heart, I have to say that Oracle will undoubtedly get its way.
I am in no position to predict the consequences, however I do wish Monty
Widenius the best of luck in his bout with the proverbial "Big Fish".
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Dec 16, 2009, at 1:48 PM, Yousif Masoud wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Philip Thompson <philthath...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> On Dec 15, 2009, at 6:03 AM, Ashley Sheridan wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 02:53 +0000, Joseph Masoud wrote:
> >>
> >> On 14 Dec 2009, at 22:01, Ashley Sheridan <a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 15:59 -0600, Philip Thompson wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Dec 14, 2009, at 12:51 AM, Lester Caine wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Lenin wrote:
> >> >>>> You might also like this:
> >> >>>> Come on Monty - Lukas Smith http://bit.ly/5lmwwD
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I've been watching some of this debate with interest, but I'll
> >> >>> stay with a database that has none of the baggage that MySQL has
> >> >>> always had, and IS currently replacing Oracle in many large sites :)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> Lester Caine - G8HFL
> >> >>
> >> >> Do share your db of interest... (and please don't say MSSQL).
> >> >>
> >> >> ~Philip
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > MSSQL has nearly brought me to tears and could have easily made me
> >> > bald
> >> > through hair pulling!
> >> >
> >> > I have to say, I do like MySQL, it's very flexible and fast, and being
> >> > able to choose different storage engines for different tables in the
> >> > same DB is brilliant! I really don't think there's anything to overly
> >> > worry about from Oracle, as the two DB's have different audiences.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Ash
> >> > http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
> >> >
> >> >
> >> Unfortunately, I do not share your optimism. I believe that Oracle
> >> taking over MySQL would be a disaster of epic proportions.
> >>
> >> The "different audiences" theory has been bought up several times but
> >> I haven't [to date] seen a sound justification for it. Oracle wants
> >> everyone to use ... Oracle, I can't see how this "different audiences"
> >> theory is going to make Oracle promote MySQL, perhaps someone can tell
> >> me?
> >>
> >> I don't think the EU would be able to do anything about it. The
> >> powerful companies almost always get what they want.
> >>
> >> I don't think Monty wouldn't be doing this unless he felt that
> >> something [put mildly] bad is coming.
> >>
> >> What has happened, has happened. Trying to figure out who is to blame
> >> for this mess is pointless. Ideally, It would be nice if Oracle took
> >> its claws off MySQL and found another project to ruin.
> >>
> >> Note: I am *not* trying to spread FUD
> >
> > I've always been led to believe that you go with MySQL if you want speed,
> > Oracle if you want data integrity. I know they both handle each one
> > admirably, but Oracle is known more for guarding the data against mishaps
> > and MySQL is known more for performance. I just think it may be a little
> > early to be condemning Oracle yet, we should wait a little to at least see
> > what stance they have on the whole thing. And before you ask, no I have no
> > connection to Oracle, I'm an avid MySQL fan!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ash
> > http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
> >
>
> Let's not forget one of the biggest decisions on why people choose MySQL over
> Oracle/MSSQL.... it's way cheap. So cheap they're nearly giving it away. Oh
> wait! They ARE giving it away. You start to piss people off whenever you take
> away their working, free option. Also by being open source, you have plenty
> of people that have the opportunity to work with it. The biggest reason I
> haven't messed with Oracle (except in college for my db class) is that it's
> expensive. Don't underestimate how cheap people are. There's your "different
> audience."
>
> ~Philip
> Your rant has been repeated so many times that it is becoming like a
> corporate mantra. Some of the biggest software companies in the world use
> open source software (which is free as in free beer). Are companies that use
> Linux or FreeBSD as their server software "cheap"? For the remainder of my
> argument, I will assume that your assertions only apply to database servers
> (I'm not sure why you've chosen to single them out).
>
> It is disheartening that developers who decide to use open source software
> are castigated as "cheap". Well in my case, I like to know what's under the
> bonnet. That's just me, not a generalization and I emphasize that I am not
> speaking on behalf of anyone.
>
> The tenets of a successful argument include a viable theory substantiated by
> reliable and independently verifiable facts (none of which exist in your
> rant). I will, nevertheless, try to make sense of your logic [in my own
> mind[.
>
> I think you are making 2 assertions and then clumsily using them to prove
> your claim.
>
> Assertion 1: It is inconvenient when a successful, widely adopted and very
> convenient open source solution is taken away from the community (I am aware
> that there are no explicit plans to kill the project, but this is my
> perception based on how Oracle treated InnoDB).
>
> True. This is not only inconvenient, it is rude, immoral and very selfish.
> Now, you tell me who's being "cheap"? Developers who implement MySQL (for
> whatever reason) or Oracle by viciously going after businesses that are
> happily using MySQL?
>
> Assertion 2: People who implement Open Source Software are tawdry.
> This is absurd. Period. Cost is one of the more important factors when
> choosing a software solution to implement, irrespective of company or project
> size. Suggesting that developers who use Open Source Software are inferior
> to their counterparts using propriety software is stunning. To convince me
> of this you will need to conduct a thorough survey comparing the skill of
> developers from both camps. It would be exceptionally difficult to produce
> the criteria that will differentiate between the two and give reliable
> results that prove your claim beyond reasonable doubt.
>
> You are claiming that the assertions above are enough to differentiate
> between a typical MySQL and Oracle user. I am not convinced. Lack of
> funding is a problem faced by every company in the world, it is therefore
> logically flawed to use that as a differentiating factor between the
> audiences.
>
> You have failed to demonstrate how your assertions would enable Oracle to
> promote and nurture MySQL so that it becomes the better database solution.
> If you can't see the conflict of interest then you are knowingly choosing to
> ignore reality.
>
> With a heavy heart, I have to say that Oracle will undoubtedly get its way.
> I am in no position to predict the consequences, however I do wish Monty
> Widenius the best of luck in his bout with the proverbial "Big Fish".
Ooops! I forgot to conclude my last email with... "Tongue in cheek."
~Philip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Philip Thompson <philthath...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Dec 14, 2009, at 8:47 PM, James McLean wrote:
>> Why not just use the built in MySQL libraries or PDO?
>
> Oh, that would be "my" preference. However, the database that I
> really need to connect to is an MSSQL one and the allowed connection
> type is ODBC.
Is there any chance that you have to work with fields that will return
more than 4k of text? If so, you may have problems with ODBC. I can't
remember if I ever used odbc_connect() and its related functions with
SQL Server (I mostly use it to read Excel spreadsheets), but I know we
couldn't use PDO (with either the PDO_MSSQL or PDO_ODBC drivers)
because of a limit on TEXTSIZE that we couldn't get around. On our
older stuff, we're still using the mssql library, but on our newer
stuff we're using the SQL Server Driver for PHP. It connects via ODBC,
but it is the best library I've found for working with SQL Server in
PHP.
Andrew
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Dec 16, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Andrew Ballard wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Philip Thompson <philthath...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> On Dec 14, 2009, at 8:47 PM, James McLean wrote:
>>> Why not just use the built in MySQL libraries or PDO?
>>
>> Oh, that would be "my" preference. However, the database that I
>> really need to connect to is an MSSQL one and the allowed connection
>> type is ODBC.
>
> Is there any chance that you have to work with fields that will return
> more than 4k of text? If so, you may have problems with ODBC. I can't
> remember if I ever used odbc_connect() and its related functions with
> SQL Server (I mostly use it to read Excel spreadsheets), but I know we
> couldn't use PDO (with either the PDO_MSSQL or PDO_ODBC drivers)
> because of a limit on TEXTSIZE that we couldn't get around. On our
> older stuff, we're still using the mssql library, but on our newer
> stuff we're using the SQL Server Driver for PHP. It connects via ODBC,
> but it is the best library I've found for working with SQL Server in
> PHP.
>
>
> Andrew
So, instead of using odbc_* functions, just use the mssql_* functions?
~Philip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey guys, I've been on this list since 1997, wow, 12 years! Anyways, we've
been desperately trying to find a talented LAMP developers/Linux "admin".
We've got recruiters hunting, but all the candidates are sub-par and it's
wasting a lot of my/our time. It seems that many people CLAIM to be LAMP
devs, but when you actually quiz them, they fail horribly. Or they don't
know their way around a Linux system, if it doesn't have a pretty GUI. So,
I apologize if this is not allowed on the list, but I don't see a "job"
list (http://www.php.net/mailing-lists.php maybe there should be? )
Since I'm going to be working directly with this person, I figured I'd just
take the bull by the horns and post here to find someone with skills
amongst my fellow PHPriends. I'm not a recruiter, just a worker-bee here at
PAC and want to find another developer that I can be sure will take pride
in their work and get things done and not dump it all on my lap. So with
that, here is the job description. If you're in the Bothell, WA (Seattle)
area or the Lake Forest, CA (Irvine/OC) area, and are interested in a
6-month contract to perm job, let me know. BTW, everyone starts as a
contractor here, myself included. It's an easy way to "test" someone and
not have to worry about firing them if they turn out to suck. I was offered
my perm position after only 3 months, as were my two co-workers. This is an
immediate ASAP opening.
--------------------- 8< ----------------------------------------- >8
-------------------
We are looking to hire an "MTS III, Software" AKA: a "Senior LAMP
Developer"
Panasonic Avionics Corporation is the world's leading supplier of in-flight
entertainment and communication systems. Headquartered in Lake Forest,
California, Panasonic Avionics Corporation maintains corporate and
engineering offices in Bothell, Washington; The position can be filled at
either location. http://www.panasonic.aero/Contacts/Contact.aspx
Core responsibilities are to design and develop software for the LAMP
stack. You will be part of a small and agile software development team and
must be able to work using Internet collaboration tools, such as instant
messaging, CVS/SourceForge, Wiki, Bug trackers, etc. You should be
familiar with the Linux environment from a command line. The chosen
candidate will be responsible for developing and maintaining the current
customer facing ground-application suite and future applications which
support our IFE (In-Flight Entertainment) system.
Duties include:
* Design and implement database-driven reports from a database with 1
Billion rows
* Design and develop web applications in PHP, MySQL, JavaScript, jQuery,
DHTML, CSS, XML
* Design and optimize SQL databases (with a focus on mySQL, but some
Oracle and MSSQL)
* Perform complex SQL JOINs and SUB SELECTS (no functions, triggers or
procedures needed currently)
* Be familiar with mySQL CLI tools and commands (such as EXPLAIN, SHOW,
DESCRIBE, mytop, etc.)
* Monitor mySQL replication/clusters (Master/Slaves) and basic DBA skills
related to uptime thereof
* Enhance software to reduce operating time or improve efficiency (ie.
mySQL slowlog, reduce JOINs, etc.)
* Develop system architecture and design including software, hardware,
communications and interface requirements
* Prepare, review, and evaluate documentation, specifications, test plans
and procedures
* Conducts analysis to define, analyze and allocate requirements
* Budget time and make accurate estimates for task completion
* Prepares program-level/code documentation and self-documenting code (ie.
Wiki, PHPDoc)
* Basic Ubuntu server maintenance, security and knowledge required (CLI
only, no GUI)
* Python experience is a definite plus
* Eventually creating Unit Tests and User Acceptance Tests (UAT)
* Engage in Pair Programming and Code Reviews
Qualifications:
* Applicant must be able to effectively communicate on a technical level
with hardware and software engineering personnel. The position does not
require the communication skills set required to communicate with external
customers.
* Applicant must be capable of solving complex software problems,
trouble-shoot code, and provide very creative input on user interface
designs.
EDUCATION: BS Computer Science, or equivalent and 8 years of experience.
WORK EXPERIENCE: 8+ years of software development experience. Being a small
team, we need senior level people, not newbies.
SOFTWARE SKILLS: Must be very experienced with PHP and familiar with web
development pitfalls such as browser incompatibilities/quirks and CSS/JS
discrepancies. PHP and SQL optimization tricks and techniques appreciated.
Feel free to send me your resumes for review and then I'll send worthy
candidates to my boss to schedule a more formal interview. (Send them to
the email below please, not my personal one I used to post this from -- I
like to keep things organized, plus it'll be a test to see how well you
follow directions *wink*) Sorry, there is no relocation offered.
Daevid Vincent
MTS-IV, Software
O: 425.415.9334
E: daevid.vinc...@panasonic.aero
W: http://www.panasonic.aero
Panasonic Avionics Corporation
--- End Message ---
