hi ...
so .. http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=915184
when did we start adding features that have no chance in hell of actually
working accurately?
i love how my battery had 0:00 time just a second ago, even though it's fully
charged, and now it has 0:18 left. these are bullshit numbers
On Wednesday 13 May 2009, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> i love how my battery had 0:00 time just a second ago, even though it's
> fully charged, and now it has 0:18 left. these are bullshit numbers, not
0:51 left. neat, esp that it's plugged in _and_ 100% charged
--
Aaron J. Seigo
humru othro a kohnu
On May 13, 2009 18:11:44 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Wednesday 13 May 2009, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > i love how my battery had 0:00 time just a second ago, even though it's
> > fully charged, and now it has 0:18 left. these are bullshit numbers, not
>
> 0:51 left. neat, esp that it's plugged in _an
On Wednesday 13 May 2009, Chani wrote:
> On May 13, 2009 18:11:44 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > On Wednesday 13 May 2009, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > > i love how my battery had 0:00 time just a second ago, even though it's
> > > fully charged, and now it has 0:18 left. these are bullshit numbers,
> > >
On Thursday 14 May 2009 06:01:36 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> i honestly don't get it.
Me neither. Had to constantly fight this kind of stuff going in libsolid
too... There's quite some obsession out there regarding "remaining time" even
though it's completely unreliable information.
Regards.
--
Ké
> >
> > well, it works well enough for *me*... you don't want to hobble mouse
> > interaction because some people have crappy touchpads, so why hide
> > battery info because some people have crappy battery hardware/drivers?
>
> because beyond crappy drivers i have yet to see calculations that actu
Hi,
On Thursday 14 May 2009 03:07:43 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> so .. http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=915184
>
> when did we start adding features that have no chance in hell of actually
> working accurately?
>
> i love how my battery had 0:00 time just a second ago, even though it's
> fully
On Thursday 14 May 2009, Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > can someone provide a justification, other than idiot pacification, for
> > r#915184
>
> Yes. The percentage is even less relevant, a bad battery can show 100% and
> still go down within two minutes.
if my battery is going bad, that's one thing
On Thursday 14 May 2009, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> it is not an absolute number, it's a made up number. it's a guess. you call
on my way to bed i remembered one further point: on handheld devices this
"time left" number would be a total joke.
both my cell phone and n810 can last days if i let them
I do like the "remaining time" feature. Even if it's not 100% accurate, it's
accurate enough, and it would be a big loss not having it.
Why not just change it to "Approx. remaining time", and you're fine.
The proposed "Time since last charge" would be a very useful addition, but not
a replaceme
A Thursday 14 May 2009 10:20:55, Aaron J. Seigo escreveu:
> On Thursday 14 May 2009, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > it is not an absolute number, it's a made up number. it's a guess. you
> > call
>
> on my way to bed i remembered one further point: on handheld devices this
> "time left" number would be
A Thursday 14 May 2009 07:26:52, Kevin Ottens escreveu:
> On Thursday 14 May 2009 06:01:36 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > i honestly don't get it.
>
> Me neither. Had to constantly fight this kind of stuff going in libsolid
> too... There's quite some obsession out there regarding "remaining time"
> eve
On Thursday 14 May 2009 12:13:22 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> let me close with an example from the world of automobiles: ever notice how
> fuel gages show "how much is left in your tank" versus "how many kilometers
> you have left to go"? think about it. this is the exact same issue. now,
> either car
There are two questions
1) what is the most useful (or conversely, misleading) information for the user
2) what is pleasant/pretty for the user
My experience is that non-tech-savvy users tend to consider inaccurate
predictions to be simply "wrong". This means that they are (1) not
useful and (2)
A Thursday 14 May 2009 11:10:29, Casper Clemence escreveu:
> There are two questions
>
> 1) what is the most useful (or conversely, misleading) information for the
> user 2) what is pleasant/pretty for the user
>
> My experience is that non-tech-savvy users tend to consider inaccurate
> predictions
On Thursday 14 May 2009 11:20:55 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Thursday 14 May 2009, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > it is not an absolute number, it's a made up number. it's a guess. you
> > call
>
> on my way to bed i remembered one further point: on handheld devices this
> "time left" number would be a t
Am Donnerstag 14 Mai 2009 12:40:35 schrieb Nuno Pinheiro:
> A Thursday 14 May 2009 11:10:29, Casper Clemence escreveu:
> > There are two questions
> >
> > 1) what is the most useful (or conversely, misleading) information for
> > the user 2) what is pleasant/pretty for the user
> >
> > My experienc
On Thursday 14 May 2009 11:13:22 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Thursday 14 May 2009, Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > > can someone provide a justification, other than idiot pacification, for
> > > r#915184
> >
> > Yes. The percentage is even less relevant, a bad battery can show 100%
> > and still go down
2009/5/14 Sebastian Kügler :
> On Thursday 14 May 2009 11:13:22 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
>> > The time remaining gives at least an approximation of what the user can
>> > expect, and does so in a *meaningful* way (by providing an absolute
>> > number).
>>
>> it is not an absolute number, it's a made u
Petri Damstén schrieb:
> On Thursday 14 May 2009 12:13:22 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
>> i'm guessing car manufacturers realize that it's safer to let the user
>> guess based on the readout of the fuel level, [...]
>
> I think I have seen several cars that estimate kilometers left with the
> current ta
2009/5/14 Andreas Stricker :
> But what about to show the remaining time only with the expected
> accurancy? Either in scientific form...
because the power consumption may vary by a factor of two or more.
More important is to communicate that it depends on what the computer
is doing.
_
On Thursday 14 May 2009, David Nolden wrote:
> We can do a better calculation than the users bad one, and that's why we
> should do it.
but our calculation will still be wrong. and that's a cardinal rule: the user
is allowed to get it wrong. the computer can't without diminishing trust in
the sy
On Thursday 14 May 2009, Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> On Thursday 14 May 2009 11:20:55 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > On Thursday 14 May 2009, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > > it is not an absolute number, it's a made up number. it's a guess. you
> > > call
> >
> > on my way to bed i remembered one further poin
Am Donnerstag 14 Mai 2009 17:32:56 schrieb Aaron J. Seigo:
> On Thursday 14 May 2009, David Nolden wrote:
> but our calculation will still be wrong. and that's a cardinal rule: the
> user is allowed to get it wrong. the computer can't without diminishing
> trust in the system. lower trust translate
On Thursday 14 May 2009, David Nolden wrote:
> Yes maybe, but to the average user the percentage will be a near useless
> number.
so people don't find the battery indicator on their cell phone useful?
--
Aaron J. Seigo
humru othro a kohnu se
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA EE75 D6B7 2
On Thursday 14 May 2009 07:27:33 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > if my battery is going bad, that's one thing and i deserve everything i
> > get with that. nothing will save me then. but point to a defective corner
> > case in hardware is not justification for anything. we're talking about
> > generall
Am Donnerstag 14 Mai 2009 22:25:19 schrieb Aaron J. Seigo:
> On Thursday 14 May 2009, David Nolden wrote:
> > Yes maybe, but to the average user the percentage will be a near useless
> > number.
>
> so people don't find the battery indicator on their cell phone useful?
To me my cellphone has 2 stat
>
> > It's not made up, as far as I can see it's remaining capacity / current
> > discharge rate. So it does tell you when your battery runs out if you
> > keep doing what you're doing right now.
> >
> > Maybe a good point is to think about how we can make this more clear to
> > the user.
>
> I'd
On May 14, 2009 13:25:19 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Thursday 14 May 2009, David Nolden wrote:
> > Yes maybe, but to the average user the percentage will be a near useless
> > number.
>
> so people don't find the battery indicator on their cell phone useful?
ugh, I hate that thing. what the hell do
On Thursday 14 May 2009 23:22:46 Chani wrote:
> > > It's not made up, as far as I can see it's remaining capacity / current
> > > discharge rate. So it does tell you when your battery runs out if you
> > > keep doing what you're doing right now.
> > >
> > > Maybe a good point is to think about how
On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 6:14 AM, Zack Rusin wrote:
> On Thursday 14 May 2009 23:22:46 Chani wrote:
>> > > It's not made up, as far as I can see it's remaining capacity / current
>> > > discharge rate. So it does tell you when your battery runs out if you
>> > > keep doing what you're doing right n
Am Freitag 15 Mai 2009 09:25:00 schrieb Eduardo Robles Elvira:
> * It's difficult to calculate accurately and we cannot predict the
> future, and some devices are broken. But if we relay on recent battery
> usage and percentage of battery left, which I've experienced both are
> fairly accurate meas
On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 09:25:00AM +0200, Eduardo Robles Elvira wrote:
> we can guess the future usage and get a good
> enough predictions for most of the time. You've been using 10W+-2W for
> last 10 mins, and in 10mins the battery has decreased 2%. We can
> predict that if the battery usage cont
Hi all,
When Zack calls, I answer (Sebas poking me helps too ;). I've read through
most of the thread and want to provide my .02. Let's begin by breaking down
the problem a bit.
Purpose of the battery widget:
* Provide a visual indicator of the current power status (battery or AC power)
* Pr
On Friday 15 May 2009, Celeste Lyn Paul wrote:
> Percentage as an indicator to how much battery power remains:
>
> * We're all geeks and pretty much treat our laptops like they were the
> security blanket we had when we were 3. Sane/normal people don't know much
> about their hardware or battery ca
On Thursday 14 May 2009, Chani wrote:
> On May 14, 2009 13:25:19 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > On Thursday 14 May 2009, David Nolden wrote:
> > > Yes maybe, but to the average user the percentage will be a near
> > > useless number.
> >
> > so people don't find the battery indicator on their cell phone
Am Sonntag 17 Mai 2009 20:22:30 schrieb Aaron J. Seigo:
> On Thursday 14 May 2009, Chani wrote:
> > On May 14, 2009 13:25:19 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > > On Thursday 14 May 2009, David Nolden wrote:
> > > > Yes maybe, but to the average user the percentage will be a near
> > > > useless number.
> >
On Sunday 17 May 2009 20:06:57 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> come up with the algorithm to figure that on a random laptop and you get a
> lollipop.
... and you're complaining about 'talking down to someone'? Seriously ...
--
sebas
http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9
On Sunday 17 May 2009 02:06:57 pm Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Friday 15 May 2009, Celeste Lyn Paul wrote:
> > Percentage as an indicator to how much battery power remains:
> >
> > * We're all geeks and pretty much treat our laptops like they were the
> > security blanket we had when we were 3. Sane/
On Sunday 17 May 2009, David Nolden wrote:
> > you're asking for magic to happen. "please predict how many phone calls
> > i'll get in the next 2 hours" <-- that's what it would take to translate
> > "one bar" into "38 minutes left"
>
> The computer can add use additional information for computing
On Sunday 17 May 2009, Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> On Sunday 17 May 2009 20:06:57 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > come up with the algorithm to figure that on a random laptop and you get
> > a lollipop.
>
> ... and you're complaining about 'talking down to someone'? Seriously ...
thank you for adding sign
On Sunday 17 May 2009, Celeste Lyn Paul wrote:
> However, the rest of the email is pretty much useless. If there was
> supposed to be anything constructive between the insults and other crap..
> sorry, I missed it.
then let me quote the relevant bit for you:
==
the issue is not "would it be g
On Monday 18 May 2009 07:45:59 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Sunday 17 May 2009, Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > On Sunday 17 May 2009 20:06:57 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > > come up with the algorithm to figure that on a random laptop and you
> > > get a lollipop.
> >
> > ... and you're complaining about 't
eather forecast.
Kind Regards
Jared
-Original Message-
From: Kevin Ottens [mailto:er...@kde.org]
Sent: Monday, 18 May 2009 4:38 PM
To: plasma-devel@kde.org
Subject: Re: battery plasmoid and remaining time..
On Monday 18 May 2009 07:45:59 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Sunday 17 May 2009
On Monday 18 May 2009, Jared Kells wrote:
> She said it's an important feature for her. With no prompting she explained
> that it is just an estimate based on what she is doing now. When reading
> email the time will be more then if she was watching a movie.
i have to ask: is it really not apparen
>
> nope, that's crap. if *you* don't see a huge difference between idle
> processor and a movie playing/compile/gamin then it's your hardware that's
> shite.
ok, I guess you're right about that ;) this laptop *is* standard mass-produced
crap, and it does kinda suck.
>
>
> > > of course that's
>
> > How do you think about weather forecast?
>
> 20 years ago they were nearly worthless and the weather man was a character
> people made jokes about. there reputation was horrible and nobody took them
> seriously.
>
> today they have proper computer models, insane amounts of data and their
> pr
On May 18, 2009 00:40:25 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Monday 18 May 2009, Jared Kells wrote:
> > She said it's an important feature for her. With no prompting she
> > explained that it is just an estimate based on what she is doing now.
> > When reading email the time will be more then if she was wat
ok, let's try to get a more productive discussion... hmm... how can we do
this?
how about a list of questions?
1) what methods of time estimation can we think of? (eg. the current one-point
method, averaging over X amount of time...)
2) how useful is each, and how accurate in what way? (eg. th
>
> so it seems where we disagree is whether inaccurate information (which
> users are aware is inaccurate) is better than no information.
sorry, that's not right. showing the percentage is not "no information". it's
more.. "no time information".
--
This message brought to you by eevil bananas
> 1) what methods of time estimation can we think of? (eg. the current
> one-point
> method, averaging over X amount of time...)
Without being able to add sensors into the battery itself, what we are left
with is a machine learning problem: predict, on the basis of what can be
measured, the
Chani wrote:
> 4) what other methods of reporting battery status can we think of, and what
> are their pros & cons? (eg. percentage is already there, it's perfectly
> accurate, but the user may not interpret it very well)
Someone smart said:
1 word = 1 millipicture
Why not include a graph wh
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