Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)

On Apr 26, 2008, at 1:58 PM, Kurt Granroth wrote: > Chris Gehlker wrote: >> On Apr 25, 2008, at 10:36 PM, Kurt Granroth wrote: >>> But it [the iLife suite] does so in a completely and totally >>> locked down fashion. All files are sucked in, converted to the >>> iLife formats, and good luc

Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)

Chris Gehlker wrote: On Apr 25, 2008, at 10:36 PM, Kurt Granroth wrote: But it [the iLife suite] does so in a completely and totally locked down fashion. All files are sucked in, converted to the iLife formats, and good luck ever trying to get them out again. I don't understand what you m

Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)

On Saturday 26 April 2008 1:06 pm, Chris Gehlker wrote: > -- > No matter how far you have gone on the wrong road, turn back. >   -Turkish proverb Love your quote! --- PLUG-discuss mailing list - PLUG-discuss@lists.plug.phoenix.az.us To subscribe, uns

Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)

On Apr 25, 2008, at 10:36 PM, Kurt Granroth wrote: > But it [the iLife suite] does so in a completely and totally locked > down fashion. All files are sucked in, converted to the iLife > formats, and good luck ever trying to get them out again. I don't understand what you mean here. I haven

Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)

Craig White wrote: never missing an opportunity to pile on... [snip] I honestly think that the reason Apple has customers is because the people who buy Apple think the only alternative is Windows. Which is why so many Linux people I know also have Macs wait, that doesn't follow at all.

Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)

On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 21:10 -0700, Mike Garfias wrote: > On Apr 24, 2008, at 8:34 PM, Craig White wrote: > > > > > > As for the hardware...until you need repairs and then you have to > > confront a revolutionary new business model...PreferredCare. > > > > $100 extortion fee and they repair in 2/3 d

Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)

On Apr 24, 2008, at 8:34 PM, Craig White wrote: > > > As for the hardware...until you need repairs and then you have to > confront a revolutionary new business model...PreferredCare. > > $100 extortion fee and they repair in 2/3 days. If you don't pay the > fee, repair in 1/3 weeks. Warranty is no

Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)

On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 20:45 -0700, Judd Pickell wrote: > > > > I honestly think that the reason Apple has customers is because the > > people who buy Apple think the only alternative is Windows. > > > > That or they need the multimedia properties and software that have > been do well done on the

Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)

> > I honestly think that the reason Apple has customers is because the > people who buy Apple think the only alternative is Windows. > That or they need the multimedia properties and software that have been do well done on the Mac. Simple fact is Windows can't touch them on that account for qua

Re: OT: notebook shopping

Donn wrote: > > > On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Austin Godber <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > wrote: > > Kevin Faulkner wrote: > >> I beg to differ, OS X is very different from Windows. It sells > for a fair > >> price and it works. > >> > > >

Re: Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)

On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 20:28 -0700, Alan Dayley wrote: > Donn wrote: > > > > Thank you Austin. That was part of my point. OS X has ONE Price and One > > version. It also has none of the typical Windows issues with Registry > > hell, reboot after sneezing hard, corruption of basic services by > >

Proprietary elegance good enough? (Was: Re: OT: notebook shopping)

Donn wrote: Thank you Austin. That was part of my point. OS X has ONE Price and One version. It also has none of the typical Windows issues with Registry hell, reboot after sneezing hard, corruption of basic services by applications (at least typically), etc. As far as 'Free' or Open Source

Re: OT: notebook shopping

On Apr 24, 2008, at 5:05 PM, Donn wrote: > Thank you Austin. That was part of my point. OS X has ONE Price and > One version. They actually have the "Family Pack" as well. Five users for $200. And there are discounts at student stores and places like Amazon. Just picking a nit. -- In Americ

Re: OT: notebook shopping

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Austin Godber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Kevin Faulkner wrote: > >> I beg to differ, OS X is very different from Windows. It sells for a > fair > >> price and it works. > >> > > > > Well its kinda hard to place a price on OS X when it comes bundled with > the > >

Re: OT: notebook shopping

Kevin Faulkner wrote: >> I beg to differ, OS X is very different from Windows. It sells for a fair >> price and it works. >> > > Well its kinda hard to place a price on OS X when it comes bundled with the > machine itself. I don't even know how much it sells for. I think Windows works > > O

Re: OT: notebook shopping

> > I beg to differ, OS X is very different from Windows. It sells for a fair > price and it works. Well its kinda hard to place a price on OS X when it comes bundled with the machine itself. I don't even know how much it sells for. I think Windows works too, quite well for people who enjoy it h

Re: OT: notebook shopping

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Kevin Faulkner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mac Book Pro - the 2.4GHz 15" version, with the high-speed drive option, > > is $2100, a bit out of my range. I _could_ set it up triple-boot with XP > > (and Linux, of course) which would bring it up to $2200. But I've

Re: OT: notebook shopping

> Mac Book Pro - the 2.4GHz 15" version, with the high-speed drive option, > is $2100, a bit out of my range. I _could_ set it up triple-boot with XP > (and Linux, of course) which would bring it up to $2200. But I've always > admired the Mac's design, the fact that OS X is based on Unix, and th

Re: OT: notebook shopping

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 12:12 PM, JD Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm pretty happy with my asus eee :) > The distro that comes with it (xandros based) is perfectly fine but I > recently loaded mandriva on it and like it. > It's a little small to type on but it didn't take me long to get

Re: OT: notebook shopping

I think you've got the effect here where people think its higher quality *because* the price is high. As I mentioned, a lot of what you pay for with Dell or Lenovo is for people who call up and ask basic questions. So all these people use resources that is embedded in the cost for *all users*

Re: OT: notebook shopping

I think these are cool and if I had a few extra hundred dollars I'd buy one. However would you run your business on one? Joshua Zeidner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: btw- If youre looking to run Linux exclusively there are a lot more attractive options. One general observation I've made about

Re: OT: notebook shopping

I'm pretty happy with my asus eee :) The distro that comes with it (xandros based) is perfectly fine but I recently loaded mandriva on it and like it. It's a little small to type on but it didn't take me long to get used to it. The other downside is the small screen (800x400). It's perfect for m

Re: OT: notebook shopping

btw- If youre looking to run Linux exclusively there are a lot more attractive options. One general observation I've made about hardware markets and Linux is that a large portion of the consumer price for major brand names is to cover *support* costs. These costs are for Windows support costs,

Re: OT: notebook shopping

On Sunday 20 April 2008 1:05:57 pm Vaughn Treude wrote: > Hello everybody! > > I'm planning to buy a new notebook, <> > Any comments or relevant experiences any of you could share? > Thanks, > Vaughn Vaughn: I picked up a Lenovo T61p (Intel 2.2 GHz dual core, Nvidia Quadro FX 570M 256 MB, 2

Re: OT: notebook shopping

There is NO better PC based video editor than Final Cut, and it is mac exclusive. (I) do not like Mac, but when something is superior, you have to acknowledge it. If Video editing is a good part of what you plan to do, Then the MAC would be the choice. I just hate paying more $$$ for hardware a

Re: OT: notebook shopping

> handle are DOA hardware. >> >> 2. The Windows tax becomes obvious. >> >> 3. Preinstalled-software inertia becomes less of an issue. >> (OpenOffice would get installed more if MS Office, or worse yet, its >> free trial versiopn, wasn't preinstalled) >>

Re: OT: notebook shopping

I am surprised how many responses there were with little mention of Toshiba and none of Compaq! I have been running Linux and windows xp/vista on both for many years. I would say by far the toshiba had ZERO Linux install problems (openSuSE 10.3) and the windows installs were fine. As far as dura

Re: OT: notebook shopping

Slackware do, then all of a sudden: > > > > 1. Their support costs drop 90%-- the only things they really have to > > handle are DOA hardware. > > > > 2. The Windows tax becomes obvious. > > > > 3. Preinstalled-software inertia becomes less of an i

Re: OT: notebook shopping

s obvious. > > 3. Preinstalled-software inertia becomes less of an issue. > (OpenOffice would get installed more if MS Office, or worse yet, its > free trial versiopn, wasn't preinstalled) > > 4. No more crapware. > > > > > -Original M

Re: OT: notebook shopping

re if MS Office, or worse yet, its free trial versiopn, wasn't preinstalled) 4. No more crapware. -Original Message- From: der.hans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Main PLUG discussion list Sent: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 8:42 pm Subject: Re: OT: notebook shopping Am 20. Apr, 200

Re: OT: notebook shopping

Am 20. Apr, 2008 schwätzte Cat Chapman so: I'm using a system76 laptop to post this. They make Linux lappies, and so far I've had nothing but great things with this machine. Check them out at http://system76.com By going with sytem76 or something else purchased with GNU/Linux we can get suppor

Re: OT: notebook shopping

On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 16:03 -0700, Vaughn Treude wrote: > Ted Gould wrote: > > On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 13:05 -0700, Vaughn Treude wrote: > >> I plan to make it dual-boot, because it would be useful to have Windoze > >> available so I can run Visual Studio. I detest Vista, so this means the > >> not

Re: OT: notebook shopping

I want to 2nd the Mac recommendations.. Mac's have little touches that make them worth the few extra dollars. Off the top of my head, here are two things I find make their laptops worth the dough: 1. Design touches.. I have a Asus gaming laptop right now.. Specs and performance wise it awesome bu

Re: OT: notebook shopping

Wayne Davis wrote: > Dell's Latitude series are the proven workhorses of their lineup. > Good advice, I made the mistake of looking in the "Home" section rather than "Small business". I can get a Latitude D830 for about the same price ($1467) but with an extra 2 GB of RAM. (That's 8X what I've

Re: OT: notebook shopping

Kurt Granroth wrote: > Vaughn Treude wrote: >> The finalists: >> Dell Inspiron 1520 - with all the options I want it's around $1500. >> (But one of the reviewers claimed its physical construction was flimsy.) >> Toshiba Tecra A9 - also around $1500 with options. >> Lenovo ThinkPad R61 - the fully-

Re: OT: notebook shopping

Dell's Latitude series are the proven workhorses of their lineup. When you buy one, buy it as a SMALL BUSINESS CUSTOMER and GET the complete care and next biz day service. With complete care, if you "accidentally" leave it on your car roof and the drive over it, they WILL replace it (provided yo

Re: OT: notebook shopping

Vaughn Treude wrote: It's been ages since I've played with virtualization. At the time, there was a very painful performance hit. I agree, it would be the way to go if you were running, for example, MS Office or Visio or QuickBooks or something like that. My major concern now is, will Visual St

Re: OT: notebook shopping

Vaughn Treude wrote: The finalists: Dell Inspiron 1520 - with all the options I want it's around $1500. (But one of the reviewers claimed its physical construction was flimsy.) Toshiba Tecra A9 - also around $1500 with options. Lenovo ThinkPad R61 - the fully-loaded version is on sale for aroun

Re: OT: notebook shopping

After a long battle with technology, Vaughn Treude wrote: > Jon M. Hanson wrote: [much snippage] >> Apple does have refurbrished models but they go pretty quickly >> http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID? >> sf=wHF2F2PHCCCX72KDY&mco=MTE3NjY&nclm=CertifiedMac. > T

Re: OT: notebook shopping

Jon M. Hanson wrote: > Vaughn Treude wrote: >> Matt Graham wrote: >> >>> After a long battle with technology, Vaughn Treude wrote: >>> The goal: As high-performance as possible for $2000 or less. In particular, I want to be able to boot as fast as possible. >>> "Boot"?

Re: OT: notebook shopping

Ted Gould wrote: > On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 13:05 -0700, Vaughn Treude wrote: >> The goal: >> As high-performance as possible for $2000 or less. In particular, I want >> to be able to boot as fast as possible. (I will of course install Linux >> and tweak it to start only the most essential services.

Re: OT: notebook shopping

Vaughn Treude wrote: Matt Graham wrote: After a long battle with technology, Vaughn Treude wrote: The goal: As high-performance as possible for $2000 or less. In particular, I want to be able to boot as fast as possible. "Boot"? Ever since I got a laptop that could suspend-to-RA

Re: OT: notebook shopping

Cat Chapman wrote: > I'm using a system76 laptop to post this. They make Linux lappies, and > so far I've had nothing but great things with this machine. > Check them out at http://system76.com > Interesting. Their specs look good. They're about $200 more expensive for an equivalent system, but

Re: OT: notebook shopping

Matt Graham wrote: > After a long battle with technology, Vaughn Treude wrote: >> The goal: As high-performance as possible for $2000 or less. In particular, >> I want to be able to boot as fast as possible. > > "Boot"? Ever since I got a laptop that could suspend-to-RAM reliably, > rebooting wa

Re: OT: notebook shopping

Jason Spatafore wrote: > While the Lenovo is cheaper, I would advise against any IBM style laptop > based on the x6x model. We have had several issues with these at work > with failing hard drives and wireless connections just dropping out. > (Lenovo took over the IBM desktop and laptop lines a cou

Re: OT: notebook shopping

On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 13:05 -0700, Vaughn Treude wrote: > The goal: > As high-performance as possible for $2000 or less. In particular, I want > to be able to boot as fast as possible. (I will of course install Linux > and tweak it to start only the most essential services.) +1 on the suspend co

Re: OT: notebook shopping

I'm using a system76 laptop to post this. They make Linux lappies, and so far I've had nothing but great things with this machine. Check them out at http://system76.com On Sun, 2008-04-20 at 13:30 -0700, Jason Spatafore wrote: > While the Lenovo is cheaper, I would advise against any IBM style lap

Re: OT: notebook shopping

While the Lenovo is cheaper, I would advise against any IBM style laptop based on the x6x model. We have had several issues with these at work with failing hard drives and wireless connections just dropping out. (Lenovo took over the IBM desktop and laptop lines a couple years ago). As for the MA

Re: OT: notebook shopping

After a long battle with technology, Vaughn Treude wrote: > The goal: As high-performance as possible for $2000 or less. In particular, > I want to be able to boot as fast as possible. "Boot"? Ever since I got a laptop that could suspend-to-RAM reliably, rebooting was a pretty rare event. Resum

OT: notebook shopping

Hello everybody! I'm planning to buy a new notebook, as my Vaio is now 8 years old, and shows signs of getting ready to give up the ghost. (Specifically, the LCD backlight occasionally doesn't come on.) So I've been doing some serious online shopping and I'm trying to make a final decision. Thi