A 3400c will do all those things, but you'd be lucky to find a good one for
$50 or less, even now. They're still nice machines and quite useful, eight
years after they were made. I still use my hacked 198 MHz 3400c quite a bit,
and have even gotten OS X to crawl on it.
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So it's possible to run Mac OS X on a PowerBook 3400 and a Kanga...but my
question is, how fast (or not fast, rather) is OS X going to run on a
603e chip? Has anybody tried this? Does anybody have any experience with
this matter?
The 3400 video controller is fully supported; the Kanga's will
Does anyone know of a way to connect a USB 1 camera input to a 1400 . It
runs OS 9.1 .
USB to PCMCIA card ? USB to SCSI adapter ? I don't see these listed
anymore.
The PCMCIA controller in the 1400 doesn't support the CardBus protocol, and
that is required for any USB card to work. It's
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: PowerBooks powerbooks@mail.maclaunch.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: PB5300 + Li-Ion (-NiMH on fire)
While we are on the subject, does anyone know the trick in getting a
Powerbook 5300 to use a li-ion battery
While we are on the subject, does anyone know the trick in getting a
Powerbook 5300 to use a li-ion battery from a Powerbook 3400c?
I've never had any problem doing this; all I do is plug in the 3400c battery
and run the PowerBook off it. The 5300c will supposedly (I've never tested
it) still
I'd run OS 8.6 on a 2400 with that configuration. It can do OS 9, but 9 in
my experience is a little sluggish on a 603e unless you're using a 3400c or
a desktop with 128MB or more of RAM. I think you'd find that 8.6 gives you a
good balance of features without OS 9's sometimes bloated feeling.
I don't know whether I'll
get a cheap 1400/117, or get a 1400/166, but when I do, I'll be sure to
have
some questions.
I'd highly recommend a 133 or 166 if you don't plan to ever upgrade the CPU.
The 117 didn't have a level 2 cache, which means it's an extra 30 percent
slower, in addition
I'm just looking for a fairly light machine that I can carry to classes
without having to worry too much about it being stolen, or anything like
that. I'm also needing to do light graphics work, but nothing too hard. I
also do a few presentations, which is something my little greyscale 190
has a
I have 80 MB RAM.
That will be good enough for OS 9.1, if you're inclined to go that route.
The only caveat is that there will be times when you'll have to rely on VM.
What would really do well for you would be to find a copy of RAM Doubler 9.
In OS 8.6, you'll have no problems whatsoever.
I just got a PB3400 with 9.1(?), the latest that will work. I'm curious
why you prefer 8.6. Should I consider this?
The 3400 is more responsive running under 8.6, but not dramatically so. It
runs quite well on OS 9, provided you have a lot of RAM.
You can actually run OS 9.2, 10.1.x or
I think G3 is recommended.
In that case it will work, but will be slow. I had a copy of VPC 5 and tried
it on my 3400, and it told me the G3 was required. I was able to install it,
but it wouldn't run.
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If it says minimum G3, don't try it. The versions of VPC that require a G3
won't run on anything less.
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Wasn't the last system to support Cyberdog OS 7.6.1?
Considering it was bundled on my OS 8 CD, obviously not. In any case,
Cyberdog runs just fine under OS 9 once you install OpenDoc.
Most of the time when browsing under OS 9, I use iCab. I do keep a copy of
IE 5 around for those rare occasions
A more reasonable comparison is running Windows XP on a 386.
That would fall into the realm of performance such as running OS X under
PearPC on a Pentium Classic processor...if you could even make XP run on a
machine that old at all.
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You have to tempoarily remove the speaker panel to get to the PRAM battery,
but it's not soldered. Once you get to the connector, all you have to do is
unplug it and plug the new one in.
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I am curious. Can I have both OS 9.2.2 and OS X on the
wallstreet so that OS 9 runs under classic mode? That
would be great.
Yes. Any machine that can run X can also run 9.x in Classic mode under X.
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If you have OS 9.2.2 running on your 3400, mind telling me how you
accomplished it? Mine will not shut down after running any app.
Thanks, Dennis
The way you do it is to download the third-party utility called OS9Helper
at www.os9forever.com.
Bear in mind that it doesn't seem to work perfectly
I had a
Wallstreet 233 (no cache) for a little and installed
10.2.8 onto it and it ran great.
You're far more tolerant than I am. A cacheless Wallstreet 233 is barely
faster than a 3400/240, and I've run OS X on a 3400/240 and it's not the
greatest experience in the world. It's about like
What processor you
use isn't to big of a deal (OSX will run on a 604e,
maybe a 601?) but the more you have the better! And a
G4 really makes a big difference.
If you have a 603e or 604e, OS X can only run up to version 10.1.5. Jaguar
added some components that appear to call directly to thermal
What would be the highest OS I could run on this? would 9.2 run ok?
Yes, it would. OS 9 runs well on a 3400/180, so a Wallstreet wouldn't have
much problem.
OS 8.6 would be the fastest, if you don't need the added features of OS 9.
You can run up to 10.2.8 on that machine, but don't even think
You don't suppose this would work with my my Dad's 1400 G3?
Not that he really needs USB but that didn't stop me putting wireless on
his computer
It works on the 2400/3400/Kanga because those machines have a 32-bit PCMCIA
controller which supports the CardBus protocol. For whatever reason,
There are some hacks around the internet to use the
installer or pull the pieces out but it was much
easier just to copy it over.
You can get a hacked copy which will install on any Mac right here:
ftp://olympus.wwc.edu/pub/faculty/frohro/USBCardSupport1.4.1.sea.hqx
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As an aside, I just set up my 3400c with an Orinoco silver card and, after
following the README instructions (which I never do) , the thing is pretty
cool and pretty fast on the 'net. Goodness, wireless is fun!
A lot of people are shocked at how responsive a seven-year-old 3400c is when
they
www.macos9forever.com shoudl set you straight on what you need.
It's actually just www.os9forever.com
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Tried 9.2 several times. Internet would NEVER work and the 3400 would
freeze
all the time. 9.1 is cool, stable and enough for me. A sow's ear etc.
It seems to work for some and not for others. My 3400 was never stable in
9.2, but I was able to pick up a little more speed by re-installing 9.1 and
If you go for the really fast upgrades, you'll get the higher floating-point
performance, but the CPU will be badly hobbled by the slow bus speed. You
will only get the full benefit of the 333 or 466 MHz when you're using
something that hits the FPU hard, or an app that has a data set that can
Is it possible to install the 6 gig hd from my Pismo into my 1400?
Just about any standard 2.5 IDE drive should work fine in a 1400. I think
there are some limitations with older versions of the MacOS that don't
support HFS+ and some newer ATA-6 drives are flaky in an older PowerBook,
but a
The Iomega Clik is also known as the PocketZip drive. It can be run using
the standard Iomegaware driver for your version of the MacOS.
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While doing a repair/hack job on a 3400c/240 this weekend, I got yet another
reminder of just how bottlenecked older Macs were by their slow bus speeds.
I took a 3400/240 which was developing the sleeping sickness problem, and
managed to get my hands on a new Apple Service 3400/180 logic board off
Although the 3400 and 3500 are similar, you cant necessarily say its
capable of 50 MHz bus speed. The ICs on the motherboard may not be
rated for that speed, and the RAM may have the same problem. Getting
the bus speed to 44 MHz doesnt surprise though.
I've heard of people getting the 180
It's impossible. The PCMCIA controller in the 1400 can't do the 32-bit
CardBus protocol, and all USB cards require this.
The minimum PowerBooks for using USB are the 2400 and 3400, and it's not
even supported in those machines. If he needs USB, he should upgrade to at
least a WallStreet.
--
I recently installed 10.1.4 on my 3400c/240, and here's my impressions:
1. What you have been told already is true. You can't really do much, if
any, useful work on a 3400 in OS X, because the 3400 is slow, and because
you can't install anything higher than 10.1.5 on it. Something about 10.2
and
If I can't install 9.1 on my 3400c without first installing 8.5 (I've got
8.1 now) how the heck does someone do a clean install of 9.1? Were there
no
PBs that came factory fresh with 9.1 installed? Or is there a clean
install
option available? Thanks!
Put the 9.x install CD in the CD-ROM
If you want to install a Systerm Folder to boot off of, just get a
CF-to-PCMCIA adapter for that CompactFlash card and plug it directly into a
PCMCIA slot on the 3400. Format the CF card as a Mac volume and install the
system on it.
I doubt that there is any way you could get a 3400 to boot off a
Are there any big advantages to 7.5.2 or 7.5.5 that justify
dedicating more of my measly 8MB of RAM to the System? I'm waiting
for delivery of a PB160, and had planned to install 7.1 on that as
well. As I recall, I only upgraded to 7.1 from 7.0 because of
connectivity issues.
I'd like to
A limiting
factor is the very slow 160 Meg HDD.
That would kill a 3400c's performance. I don't think anything can speed up
one of the pre-G3 PowerBooks any faster than pulling out a slow IDE drive
and putting in something newer. A 3400 with a drive that old must feel like
a stock 5300 running
What are the main differences between the Lombard and Pismo? Are the
RAM limits different? Are the motherboards different in terms of speed?
What about other expansion possibilities. Are they both easy to open. A
load of questions, I know. Maybe there is a must see website you can
give me the
All I am wanting to do with the 5300 is be able to install Office 98 for
mac
on it. What is the lowest level of os that will run Office 98?
I know 8.1 will, because I've done it before. I suspect 7.6 would, too, but
I'm not sure of that having never attempted to run O98 on 7.6.
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I can give you all the evidence you need in one simple fact--you can install
Mac OS X 10.0 or 10.1 on it. There is absolutely no way to install OS X on
any machine that doesn't have a PCI bus. You can also look at the logic
board. On the bottom side of it is a large surface-mounted chip that says
Hi ok so if the 3400 has a mini pci port does that mean that in theory
you should be able to put one of these new mini pci wifi internal cards
in it and then hook up some sort of internal antenna.
I don't know if the connection is the same as the one on the newer cards. I
don't think there was
Is memory from 3400's interchangeable with memory from a 5300?
No. The connections are similar, but they're not interchangeable.
What's a good source for P-ram batteries for a 3400?
I got mine from Wegener Media when I needed a new one.
Was a cd-rw module ever
made for a 3400?
No,
A lot depends on just how much laziness you're willing to accept with the
computer in question. For the best OS X experience, you need a fast
processor and a supported video system. The first PowerBook which runs X
with any snappiness to it is a Pismo, which can be run well in X even
without a
Er, bad mouse? Now I have something new to worry over. What's wrong with
the G3 iBook mouse? what's a AEKII?
The iMac mouse (I assume that is what you mean) is shaped like a hockey puck
and is horrible to use. It's even recognized as a Road Apple product on
Low End Mac, meaning it's one of
Anyway, with processor upgrades, cannot the WS do better than OS 10.2?
Not without XPostFacto. 10.2.8 is the highest supported OS on the WS and the
beige G3.
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I just bought an almost flawless Pismo and all accessories,
including a rolling computer case for $350 -- who would have ever thought
that was possible.
You were lucky. They usually go for a lot more than that, even now. $350 is
around the going rate for a Lombard with lots of RAM. I'd rather
If fact, I find it hard to see why the WS is not on the same level with
the Pismo Lombard. Are built-in FW and/or USB that important?
No, but running Panther is, and you can't do that on a WallStreet without
the XPostFacto hack. Although I have heard that it works 99.9 percent of the
time
I've been chasing this one around for several weeks, and every site has
differences, one of the thing I noted on the wegner site is the picture
they show of a Kanga, does not look like what I have, my 3500 looks just
like a 3400 externally, and what is shown is something from the
Wallstreet
Was it the bandwidth, or the fact that Nubus mobos are so different from
PCI
mobos? Admittedly I am a super-novice when it comes to the more technical
stuff, but I thought the point was that since cardbus was made for PCI,
and nubus
was around long before PCMCIAs or Cardbus, that cardbus could
I beleive it is remotely possible on a 3400c, as the PCMCIA controller on
that is CardBus compliant (I think you have to swap the card cage over for
a CardBus one).
Or, failing that, modify a CardBus PCMCIA card to fit in the existing card
cage. This can be done on a 2400, 3400 or Kanga, none
Apparently the PCMIA slot on the
Powerbook 1400 isn't fully cardbus compliant
It's not CardBus compliant at all. To do CardBus, you need a 32-bit PCMCIA
controller on a PCI architecture. The PCMCIA controller on the 1400 is a
16-bit controller running on the NuBus-based architecture of the 1400's
Secondly, would it be better to use RamDoubler2 to set the memory
allocation to 48mb, or better to set the Virtual Memory Control Panel
to 48 mb?
I don't have any experience with RAMDoubler2, but I do have RD9 installed on
a 5300c/100 with 40 MB of RAM and OS 8.1, and I have it set to double
If that's a stock 1400cs/117, the only acceptable browser I would care to
use would be iCab.
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My question. Can I put this hard drive in my PB1400? I understand the
the PB1400 can only read 8.5GB so will have to partition the drive.
IBM TravelStar 20GB 4200rpm 2.5inch Hard Drive
It should work fine, and AFAIK, the drive controller in the 1400 can read
much more than 8.5 GB so long as
The only way a Kanga could possibly be faster than a Wallstreet with a
G3/500 installed would be if the Wallstreet's L2 cache was somehow being
disabled. A G3 with a disabled cache is no faster than a 603e processor.
The Wallstreet has a faster front-side bus, faster RAM and a CPU clocked at
The 1400 will be faster, but not by as much as you might think. For many
reasons, I would take a Kanga any day of the week over a 1400cs with a
G3-400 installed.
A 3400/240 will not be in the same league speed-wise, but it is still more
than responsive enough for most everyday tasks. It is about
The 2400 and 3400 will, with a software hack. The Wallstreet and later
are
the first powerbooks to support USB natively.
No. They will do with a *hardware* hack (that is, shaving off the key).
True, but they also need a hacked version of Apple's USB support driver,
as the stock version
Hello All, can anyone tell me which is the oldest powerbook with standard
USB or upgradeable to USB? I have 2 1400's and neither will do it!
The 2400 and 3400 will, with a software hack. The Wallstreet and later are
the first powerbooks to support USB natively.
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The 3400c and original PowerBook G3 Kanga can unreliably do USB.
I beg to differ. My 3400c does it quite reliably.
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I have heard the same story but never from someone who had one. Nor
have I EVER heard tell of a driver for it (the Apple driver almost
certainly wouldn't work with it as it is written for PCI / CardBus.
That's the problem right there. The 1400 uses the NuBus architecture, not
PCI. For the
Is that right what he said about 144mb RAM being the max in a 3400?
Yes, the standard 16MB onboard plus 128 on the largest RAM card available. I
presume that's the max that the ROM's can handle, since no one ever made
larger capacity expansion cards.
What is the oldest and the newest OS that
Powerbook 3400c / 240 / 128Mb RAM
The computer works very good and the screen is perfect, BUT...
1. I need to move a bit the powercord for it to work, I guess it has a
loose
wire inside the cable, but with a little bit of moving around it always
starts up.
This should be fairly easy to fix,
Check out http://www.resexcellence.com for instructions on how to do this,
as well as a lot of custom splash screens you can use instead.
You'll need ResEdit to do it, and you need to be careful with it or you
could mess up your System Folder.
As the subject says, how do I substitute the
If the manufacturer says it will work in both, that means it's a card that
is certified to run at the faster (50 MHz) bus speed of the 3500/Kanga. Some
cards had lower-rated RAM that will work at 40 MHz but not at 50, and those
are only good in a 3400. If you don't know for sure, the only way to
I've just come across a 3400c with the sleeping sickness problem; it has
problems starting up and sometimes waking up from sleep, and I am hoping
that it's just the PMU board starting to go bad on it. I've tried a new PRAM
battery, a new battery and another PSU without success.
Does anyone know
Right now, the Kanga feels faster, even if it is a 250 MHz G3 with
512 Kb of L2 cache, against the 333 MHZ with 1 Mb of L2 cache. But
the motherboard is 50 MHz against the 33 MHz of the 1400c.
And let's not forget the much, much better graphics chip of the Kanga.
And the faster disk
I am having a dicussuion with a person at my office; didn't the
Wallstreet/G3
series introduce hot-swappin'??
No, the 2400/3400 did. You have to at least put the 1400 to sleep, IIRC.
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I have seen the Apple PowerBook G3, 3400, 5300, 190: Battery
Interchangeability Article, and done the research on the FAQ and the WWW,
but now I want
testimonies from the resident GuRus on the list...
I've run 3400 batteries in the 5300 before, and they work great and last a
very long time.
PowerBook 3400 can be made Cardbus compliant by MCE, the mod costs
$100.00.
You can also use an ADS Technologies USB card, which apparently will fit in
the stock PCMCIA case, or just trim the edges of a regular CardBus card and
install it that way. An inelegant solution, but it works...
Anyway,
I put a 3400 battery in a 5300 once and it powered the machine fine, but it
wouldn't charge it.
The 5300 battery is totally compatible with the 3400 and the Kanga, though.
It just doesn't last very long in a 3400.
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Has anyone experienced excessive heat problems or power requirement
problems with a faster hard drive?
No, the 5300 runs pretty cool anyway--I can run mine for hours and it never
gets more than a little warm, as compared to a 3400/240 which gets quite
toasty after a couple of hours of use. A
I've read OS 8 is the highest a stock 5xx series pb can handle. Does this
mean it could not accept the 8.1 upgrade? Thanks for any info.
Yes, it can accept the 8.1 upgrade. You can't go above 8.1 without a PPC
upgrade, but a stock Blackbird can run 8.1 without any modification,
provided you
If I used RAM doubler, would there be any chance of running OSX on a
1400?
TIA,
Ken N.
It's impossible, even with a G3 upgrade. Internally, the 1400 is a NuBus
machine, like the 6100-7100-8100 models, and OS X cannot support, or be made
to support, this type of architecture. The same goes
Floppy disk in the 3400c seems very rapid compared to desktop machines.
Are they 2x IDE floppy drives or something?
The 3400 expansion bay is pretty fast, relatively speaking, which is why it
is able to support up to a 20X CD-ROM, Zip drives and even VST expansion bay
hard disks. And of course,
We were over the moon as it allows us to use Zip disks that
were formatted on PC's directly. It reads them with no problems??
Yes, the PC Exchange extension of the Mac OS allows for full read-write
compatibility between the PC's FAT filesystem and the Mac.
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Thanks for the advice. I don't think I want to take chances with that
Seagate drive. Probably, the technology in that drive is just too much for
the 3400c controller to handle without choking. They really weren't meant to
be installed in PowerBooks made in 1997, after all.
The guy told me that a
I would like to ask to listnanny to change the rules: only for the Kanga.
I think we discussed that a couple of months ago and everyone agreed that
the Kanga was OK for this forum, since it is basically a 3400c with a
factory-installed G3 upgrade, and has more in common with the Pre-G3 PPC
1) is it worth upgrading to a G3 Sonnet processor?
Yes. Upgrading with the Sonnet 466 MHz G3 will take you from 5300cs
performance all the way up to the level of a Lombard 333. It won't be as
fast as a Pismo because the 1400's bus speed is slow, but it will still pack
a wallop compared to what
Besides the G3 processor and faster bus, were there any other
improvements in the Kanga G3 over the 3400c? Such as video for
example? Anything else?
Two that I know of. The video controller in the Kanga is one generation
newer. Both use a Chips and Technologies mobile graphics accelerator.
Any idea how to tell which did and which did not?
Put in a CardBus card and see if it fits...
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(I'd probably be better off buying a
5300c outright - or even a 3400!)
You probably would. 3400s and even Kangas are going for what I consider dirt
cheap prices lately. I saw a Kanga for $160 on eBay last night. That's a
heck of a price for a G3 PowerBook.
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--- MY question: did anyone succeed to add USB capabilities to his 3400?
Or
better: Firewire? Thank you for your answer(s)!
Yes, lots of people have accomplished USB, and some have done Firewire.
See here: http://www.palkasoft.com/hooper/firewire.html
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Where can I find macbench?
http://www.pure-mac.com/diag.html#macbench
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Support Low
Yes I already thought of that. It isn't there.
I see. Well, I just tried this one. MacBench 5 can be had here:
http://www.bearca.com/downloads/index.php
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Which chip is the IDE controller ? I wonder if I could replace it
with a pin compatable faster unit ?
I don't know, but I doubt you could pull this off on a 1400. Remember, a
1400 is a NuBus machine and all the components on its logic board are based
on this architecture.
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As a general rule, 8.6 will be faster. But 9.1 can hang in the ballpark if
you strip out all the unnecessary extensions and don't use VM. I find OS 9
entirely acceptable on a 3400/240/144, but no way would I ever try to run it
on a stock 1400 or any 5300.
- Original Message -
From:
Your 1400 with the 333 MHz G3 is going to be faster than even a 3400/240;
remember, a Kanga benchmarked at twice the speed of the fastest 3400. A raw
CPU benchmark would probably place a 1400 with a G3-333 at slightly more
than twice the power of the 3400/240.
Of course, in the real world, things
). On the other hand, a G3-based 1400 (especially a 333MHz+ one) would
probably eat the 3400 for lunch w/r/t raw performance, even factoring in
the 3400's 40MHz bus speed. It would be interesting to see the numbers.
Here's some that I do know, using MacBench 4:
1400/117 - 114
1400/166 - 152
For a 'user', these days your several hundred bucks will buy a Lombard,
quite a step above a 3400. For under $200 a maxed-out 3400 can be a very
usable PB, for ~$250 a Wallstreet is even better, but as lower-end
Lombards regularly sell for ~$300 I'd suggest you start your search there.
I
OK, so is there any sort of software hack that will let us do that on
say a 3400?
Why in the world would you want to?
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And now I have a question. I read a few weeks ago that someone had the
Finder and the Open Transport pieces of 9.2.2 on a 1400 running 9.1.
Is this true, and if so, does it work well?
Yes, on a PowerBook 3400c/240, and yes, it works well. Your mileage may
vary.
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I have a 5300c, and have run 7.6.1, 8.1, and 8.6 on it. 7.6.1 can feel
quite slow, and I think that it's due to Apple's poor emulation of
non-power PC code. I purchased Connectix SpeedDoubler and it completely
changed the way 7.6.1 felt; it was MUCH faster in opening windows and
copying and
It is very fast. It feels great to have it running as fast as it was
when it was the fastest notebook computer the world has ever seen
I am actually surprised that 8.1 doesn't run faster than 7.6 on a 3400 with
maxed-out RAM. I have tried them both on a 5300 and 8.1 always seemed more
Why would 7.6.1 redraw slower than 8? Especially since everything else
runs much faster.
I would suspect that 7.6.1 just doesn't do QuickDraw acceleration as well as
8.1 would.
Running 7.6, I bet your 3400 feels as fast as a G4. I could never do it,
though; I like the features in OS 9 too
Where did you ever find OS 7.2 or 7.9 . They don't exist!!
There was an OS 7.2. It was an Apple beta for the 7.5.x series. Not anything
I would want to run even if I had a copy.
Mac OS 7.8 and 7.9 were the original working names for Allegro (OS 8.5) and
Sonata (OS 9.0). But they were never
I've been googling about what possible tweaks there
are for 3400's out there. It seems that some people
say that cardbus is supported just that most of the
cards don't fit without shaving or doing a $99 chassis
upgrade through MCE I think thats who it was.. I'd
just like to confirm that
The problem is that a 100 (or 117, for that matter) MHz 603e does not
have the oomph to emulate a 68k faster than a real 68k can operate
natively (at 33 MHz, in this case).
Which is why I said what I said. When using 68K software, the 190 is faster
than the 5300. You can't be any LESS
So that is where I
would start first. If it's a 117, don't even bother.
I wouldn't go that far. You can get a first-generation G3 upgrade card for
the 1400 for a very reasonable price on eBay these days, and that would be
my first move before considering doing anything more than basic stuff with
If you want to turn your 190 into a 5300, you can do it just as easily by
buying a 5300 motherboard and installing it into your 190 case, as to try to
find one of those upgrade cards which are very rare. The 190 and 5300, as I
understand it, are basically the same system with a different CPU
With the 6x cd drive that came with me PB1400cs/117 should I be able to
play VCD's with reasonable performace?
I kind of doubt it. I can do it on a 3400c/240, but only if I don't try to
do anything else with the system while it's playing. I bet a 1400/117 would
choke on a VCD, but I could be
Like the other person suggested, try to find a universal Mac OS 8 install CD
to do that with. I presume this is a stock 540c that's still '040 powered.
You might be able to use a PPC-specific CD if your 540 has a PPC upgrade
installed. In fact, if you do have one, you might as well hack 8.6 on
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