Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: [erlang-questions] Rhetorical structure of code: Anyone interested in collaborating?

2016-04-28 Thread Richard A. O'Keefe
On 29/04/16 3:44 AM, Brad Myers wrote: We have found that trying to have any particular visualization that serves lots of needs is rarely successful, and a better strategy is to try to understand and then more directly answer the specific questions that developers have. We discuss this obse

Re: [ppig-discuss] Rhetorical structure of code: Anyone interested in collaborating?

2016-04-28 Thread Richard A. O'Keefe
On 28/04/16 7:15 PM, Dan Sumption wrote: This is a subject that interests me greatly, and I'm keen to hear people's views on it. My perspective is that of a working software developer (albeit with a background in psychology), not an academic. I have no experience of ML, and have worked only

Re: [ppig-discuss] Rhetorical structure of code: Anyone interested in collaborating?

2016-04-28 Thread Richard A. O'Keefe
On 29/04/16 11:12 AM, Mark Levison wrote: I'm still a practitioner, to the extent a consultant can be. Visualations need to be derived from the code and not the annotations since I've never met a programmer who voluntary updated their JavaDoc or other annotation. Why are we even talking

Re: [ppig-discuss] Rhetorical structure of code: Anyone interested in collaborating?

2016-04-28 Thread Mark Levison
I'm still a practitioner, to the extent a consultant can be. Visualations need to be derived from the code and not the annotations since I've never met a programmer who voluntary updated their JavaDoc or other annotation. I've seen literate code on rare occasions, mostly from teams doing BDD/TDD.

Re: [ppig-discuss] Rhetorical structure of code: Anyone interested in collaborating?

2016-04-28 Thread ok
> Richard, > >> I've been thinking for some time of writing a paper with the >> title "Why can't I see the structure?" based on the idea that >> modules in every programming language I know look like blobs. > > The most obvious answer is lack of practice: > http://shape-of-code.coding-guidelines.co

RE: [ppig-discuss] Re: [erlang-questions] Rhetorical structure of code: Anyone interested in collaborating?

2016-04-28 Thread Brad Myers
We have found that trying to have any particular visualization that serves lots of needs is rarely successful, and a better strategy is to try to understand and then more directly answer the specific questions that developers have. We discuss this observation and various HCI methods we apply to

[ppig-discuss] Re: [erlang-questions] Rhetorical structure of code: Anyone interested in collaborating?

2016-04-28 Thread Raoul Duke
Right on. Code often becomes so complicated that we really need multiple ways to tackle, visualize, sort, query, etc. it. The fact that we have such a paucity of tools and toolkits/frameworks for the tooling is I feel a long standing indictment of the whole industry. I guess most people don't grok

Re: [ppig-discuss] Rhetorical structure of code: Anyone interested in collaborating?

2016-04-28 Thread Derek M Jones
Richard, I've been thinking for some time of writing a paper with the title "Why can't I see the structure?" based on the idea that modules in every programming language I know look like blobs. The most obvious answer is lack of practice: http://shape-of-code.coding-guidelines.com/2016/03/24/h

Re: [ppig-discuss] Rhetorical structure of code: Anyone interested in collaborating?

2016-04-28 Thread Dan Sumption
This is a subject that interests me greatly, and I'm keen to hear people's views on it. My perspective is that of a working software developer (albeit with a background in psychology), not an academic. I have no experience of ML, and have worked only a little with functional languages. I was a li