Re: "Intuitiveness" of programming languages/paradigms

2009-11-23 Thread Derek M Jones
Richard, Does anyone know whether there's any empirical evidence either way for the hypothesis programmers find a programming language or paradigm "intuitive" to the degree that it resembles what they learned first ? First of all your question suggests that there is a one side fits

Re: "Intuitiveness" of programming languages/paradigms

2009-11-23 Thread William Billingsley
If the plural of "anecdote" is "empirical evidence", then I'd suggest it's not as simple as that. In Cambridge, the first language taught was ML (a functional language). Over around five years, I tutored around sixty students in Java, which was the second language taught and also a compul

Re: "Intuitiveness" of programming languages/paradigms

2009-11-23 Thread keith gallagher
Title: Keith Brian Gallagher, PhD i'll bite i'm not sure intuition exists. i went to dictionary.com and got this about intuition: "the ability of the native speaker to make linguistic judgments, as of the grammaticality, ambiguity, equivalence, or nonequivalence of sentences, deriving from the

Re: "Intuitiveness" of programming languages/paradigms

2009-11-23 Thread Ben Du Boulay
There was interesting work done in the 70s exploring how non- programmers described in English tasks that, in principle, might be turned into programs (see e.g. Lance A. Miller, Thomas Green, John C. Thomas). The experiments showed that neither loops nor conditionals as often employed in imperativ

Re: "Intuitiveness" of programming languages/paradigms

2009-11-23 Thread Yishay Mor
When Lisp was introduced to us in 2nd year undergrad CS, the professor promised it would be a relief to work with such an intuitive language, which was designed to be written like we think. After a month or so, most of us were wondering which planet does that "we" refer to. Personally, I loved Lisp

Re: "Intuitiveness" of programming languages/paradigms (fwd)

2009-11-23 Thread Alan Blackwell
(forwarding my earlier direct reply to Richard) [This is] A regularly recurring question, over the years of PPIG! This has been the starting point for a number of PhDs, but a religious war seldom makes a good PhD. I'm not aware that the results have ever found anything very conclusive. Some o

Re: "Intuitiveness" of programming languages/paradigms (fwd)

2009-11-23 Thread John Daughtry
"Programmers find a programming language or paradigm 'intuitive' to the degree that it resembles what they learned first". As is generally the case with assertions, it isn't a matter of right/wrong, but a matter of trade-offs. I can't find a digital copy at the moment, but the following paper desc

RE: "Intuitiveness" of programming languages/paradigms (fwd)

2009-11-23 Thread Errol (IEEE Computer)
> "Programmers find a programming language or paradigm > 'intuitive' to the degree that it resembles what they learned > first". I believe educational literature and research would argue that 'Programmers find a programming language or paradigm easier to learn to the degree that they are able to

RE: "Intuitiveness" of programming languages/paradigms (fwd)

2009-11-23 Thread Errol (IEEE Computer)
Here is a research reference on prior knowledge aiding comprehension. Ozuru, Y., Dempsey, K., & McNamara, D. S. (2009). Prior knowledge, reading skill, and text cohesion in the comprehension of science texts. Learning and Instruction, 19(3), 228-242. Errol Thompson Kiwi-ET Computing Consultancy a

Re: "Intuitiveness" of programming languages/paradigms (fwd)

2009-11-23 Thread Andrew Walenstein
Alan Blackwell wrote: 1) What is the measure of 'intuitive' that you propose to use? Asking for the measure is sage advice, I'd say, for a PhD candidate, but the question that first flashes in my mind is whether intuition -- and intuition in programming -- is a phenomena that can be identifie

Re: "Intuitiveness" of programming languages/paradigms

2009-11-23 Thread Richard O'Keefe
On Nov 24, 2009, at 1:20 AM, Derek M Jones wrote: Richard, Does anyone know whether there's any empirical evidence either way for the hypothesis programmers find a programming language or paradigm "intuitive" to the degree that it resembles what they learned first ? First of all yo

Re: "Intuitiveness" of programming languages/paradigms

2009-11-23 Thread Richard O'Keefe
On Nov 24, 2009, at 2:38 AM, Ben Du Boulay wrote: There was interesting work done in the 70s exploring how non- programmers described in English tasks that, in principle, might be turned into programs (see e.g. Lance A. Miller, Thomas Green, John C. Thomas). The experiments showed that neithe

Re: "Intuitiveness" of programming languages/paradigms

2009-11-23 Thread Richard O'Keefe
On Nov 24, 2009, at 3:18 AM, keith gallagher wrote: like i said, i'm not sure intuition exists What's quite certain is that *claims* of intuitiveness exist. I think it's possible to operationalise the concept. Given languages of similar syntactic complexity, which of several paradigms is

Re: "Intuitiveness" of programming languages/paradigms

2009-11-23 Thread Derek M Jones
Richard, www.knosof.co.uk/cbook/accu06.html ... To my thinking the graphs in figure 1 show no effect of experience. That means that interesting as the experiment was, it may not bear on the question of whether there is empirical evidence that the 'imperative' paradigm is most intuitive. It

Re: "Intuitiveness" of programming languages/paradigms (fwd)

2009-11-23 Thread Richard O'Keefe
On Nov 24, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Andrew Walenstein wrote: On 23 Nov 2009, at 04:23, Richard O'Keefe wrote: functional or logic programming. Since they didn't seem to be familiar with the fairly wide gap between a typical first-year model of how an imperative language and what _really_ happens (e.

RE: "Intuitiveness" of programming languages/paradigms

2009-11-23 Thread Brad Myers
All successful languages are a mixture of all styles, with parts that are functional, imperative, object-oriented, etc. A programmer needs to learn them all. Brad Myers -Original Message- From: Richard O'Keefe [mailto:o...@cs.otago.ac.nz] Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 6:04 PM To: keith