RE: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

more about what you hate so much. On 10/20/2017 10:55 AM, Dave Crozier wrote: > "Knock, knock." > "Who's there?" > very long pause > "Java." BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHA! [excessive quoting removed by server] ___

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On 2017-10-20 11:20, Stephen Russell wrote: I heard it had used VFP's FLUSH function pretty effectively. lol - It did park VFP in its tracks. I know that visual Studio got better each version presented to the public. Not only the M$ bits but the secondary tool vendors who e

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On 10/20/2017 10:55 AM, Dave Crozier wrote: "Knock, knock." "Who's there?" very long pause "Java." BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHA! ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free versi

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 9:38 AM, < mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com> wrote: > On 2017-10-20 04:39, Alan Bourke wrote: > >> On Thu, 19 Oct 2017, at 08:14 PM, Stephen Russell wrote: >> >>> I did get a chuckle out of that. Since that time VFP has had how many >>> upgrades? >>> >>> >> it c

RE: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

"Knock, knock." "Who's there?" very long pause "Java." Dave -Original Message- From: ProFox [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com Sent: 20 October 2017 15:39 To: ProFox Email List Subject: Re:

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On 2017-10-19 16:45, Bill Anderson wrote: Ah, the DotNet boom/bust timeframe. Remember when M$ was putting .Net behind EVERYTHING!?!?!?! Office.Net, VS.Net, Toilet.Net, << Yeah, I wanted someone to put out a Cardfile.NET so that MSFT would promote it as "revolutionary"... ROFL!!

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On 2017-10-20 04:39, Alan Bourke wrote: On Thu, 19 Oct 2017, at 08:14 PM, Stephen Russell wrote: I did get a chuckle out of that. Since that time VFP has had how many upgrades? it could have done with a lot more upgrades. I heard it had used VFP's FLUSH function pretty effectively. lol

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On 2017-10-19 15:34, Ted Roche wrote: On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Stephen Russell wrote: I did get a chuckle out of that. Since that time VFP has had how many upgrades? No need. Unlike DotNet, VF IN! lol ___ Post Messages to: Pr

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On Thu, 19 Oct 2017, at 08:14 PM, Stephen Russell wrote: > I did get a chuckle out of that. Since that time VFP has had how many > upgrades? > it could have done with a lot more upgrades. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Pos

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On 10/19/2017 3:51 PM, Eric Selje wrote: Toilet.Net was actually pretty nice. I thought that was the ONLY .Net they released... :) -Charlie ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

>>Ah, the DotNet boom/bust timeframe. Remember when M$ was putting .Net behind EVERYTHING!?!?!?! Office.Net, VS.Net, Toilet.Net, << Yeah, I wanted someone to put out a Cardfile.NET so that MSFT would promote it as "revolutionary"... Bill Anderson

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Toilet.Net was actually pretty nice. On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Ted Roche wrote: > On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Stephen Russell > wrote: > > I did get a chuckle out of that. Since that time VFP has had how many > > upgrades? > > > > No need. Unlike DotNet, VFP is a stable and mature

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Stephen Russell wrote: > I did get a chuckle out of that. Since that time VFP has had how many > upgrades? > No need. Unlike DotNet, VFP is a stable and mature product ;) ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscrip

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

I did get a chuckle out of that. Since that time VFP has had how many upgrades? On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 12:38 PM, < mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com> wrote: > On 2017-10-19 12:03, Bill Anderson wrote: > >> Michael, >> >> I'm pretty sure it was at our December 2000 LA Fox meeting. >>

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On 2017-10-19 12:03, Bill Anderson wrote: Michael, I'm pretty sure it was at our December 2000 LA Fox meeting. Ah, the DotNet boom/bust timeframe. Remember when M$ was putting .Net behind EVERYTHING!?!?!?! Office.Net, VS.Net, Toilet.Net, _

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Michael, I'm pretty sure it was at our December 2000 LA Fox meeting. Bill Anderson On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 12:17 PM, < mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com> wrote: > On 2017-10-05 13:25, Bill Anderson wrote: > >> Kevin, >> >> At our user group we were told by a Microsoft representative (

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On 2017-10-06 08:52, Eric Selje wrote: Ok, I haven't had my coffee yet. It moves the forms to HTML, not Javascript. My bad. Wasn't that the idea with Microsoft's "Save as HTML" option in the VFP IDE? LOL ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com S

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On 2017-10-05 13:25, Bill Anderson wrote: Kevin, At our user group we were told by a Microsoft representative (well known to the Fox community) that Dell was throwing away all their internal applications **sight unseen** to rewrite them in the beta version of .NET 1.0. I wonder how that tur

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On 2017-10-04 11:01, Stephen Russell wrote: This is the 2017 .NET Conference Keynote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yecu4g5JYB8 So glad it's not MonkeyBoy dancing around like an idiot. M$ under this new boss seems much better than the Ballmer years. _

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Thierry, You are correct. It is too theoretical I let my Christmas wish list get the better of me. On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 1:33 AM, Thierry Nivelet wrote: > Well, all this is too theoritical for me to contribute in any useful way. > > All I know is the level of difficulty to properly parse a lan

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Alan, For my tastes I find both Lianja and XSharp a little expensive, however it might well be justified as they need to run a business and develop a product. On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 12:10 AM, Alan Bourke wrote: > If anyone is just looking for VFP syntax in a more modern paradigm, > Lianja and X

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

In the case of Google I think this was an honest to God look at the tech and the decision that it was better than Dart (Google's own version). I have to say it is a very impressive language, because it accommodates both strong and weak typing. So you can do things like import jQuery and get code co

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Well, all this is too theoritical for me to contribute in any useful way. All I know is the level of difficulty to properly parse a language; eg. VFP, we did some parsing for FAA; very difficult to make it structured, maintainable and reliable on the whole spread of cases. Transpiling would pr

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

If anyone is just looking for VFP syntax in a more modern paradigm, Lianja and XSharp are right there. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Interesting discussion thanks for your input. In my opinion, we have stagnated because the evolution of the community requires a roadmap that provides something that the old path could not do. Tech has moved on. I appreciate Chen's work but in my mind the future of coding is in a combination of Ob

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Le 09/10/2017 à 12:57, Paul Hemans a écrit : The VFP community which is now quite small Rather than small, I would say that the number of leaders is small, mainly because -- in my eyes -- the 'elite' of the community is reluctant to renew itself, and accept new members, new ideas, new ways to

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Hi Paul, Good news, if Googles enters the dance, Typescript is on good tracks to become a standard; good job Microsoft, there must have been a lot of negotiations behind the scene. However, I saw quite a bunch of open source projects in the JavaScript world that were frozen because the autho

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Being open source means that in theory yes, but the open source world is littered with half-finished, unpatched and abandoned projects because the developers wanted the new shiny or some financial reward. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm _

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Hi Thierry, I think you are looking at Typescript from the perspective of the VFP community which is now quite small, and for us to support it would be a huge challenge. However, if MS abandoned Typescript, it would be no problem because Typescript is now an official language at Google. Speaking o

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Le 07/10/2017 à 22:29, Paul Hemans a écrit : But even if they decided to stop it someone could pick up the code and go on. With VFP we were simply stuffed. 'Open source' means the source is available. Well, theorically true, very difficult practically. As I mentioned earlier, all major contribu

RE: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

ilto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ed Leafe Sent: 08 October 2017 17:59 To: ProFox Mailing List Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much. On Oct 7, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Paul Hemans wrote: > Ed, with Typescript the code is released under the Apache license so I > don&#

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On Oct 7, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Paul Hemans wrote: > Ed, with Typescript the code is released under the Apache license so I > don't see copyright as a problem. That's certainly true, but my concern is that there is one company with its own needs running the show. Sure, others could fork it and deve

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Le 07/10/2017 à 22:29, Paul Hemans a écrit : But even if they decided to stop it someone could pick up the code and go on. With VFP we were simply stuffed. 'Open source' means the source is available. Will answer with details tomorrow BTW: How did you figure out that the top 10 were from MS, 1

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Ed, with Typescript the code is released under the Apache license so I don't see copyright as a problem. On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Ed Leafe wrote: > On Oct 6, 2017, at 4:37 PM, Paul Hemans wrote: > > > Being open source guarantees that it can be forked and that we don't end > up > > in th

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

But even if they decided to stop it someone could pick up the code and go on. With VFP we were simply stuffed. 'Open source' means the source is available. BTW: How did you figure out that the top 10 were from MS, 1 has a gmail account and another seems to be from facebook. On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 a

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

The top 10 contributers being from MS (https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript/graphs/contributors), if they decide to stop the project, no one will be able to continue. More a marketing trick than real 'open source'. To me, 'open source' means that many devs from various horizon is able to tak

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On Oct 6, 2017, at 4:37 PM, Paul Hemans wrote: > Being open source guarantees that it can be forked and that we don't end up > in the dead end that VFP became. But there are other options for strongly > typed JS available. It is just that being associated with MS means that it > has stronger supp

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On Oct 6, 2017, at 4:50 PM, Paul H. Tarver wrote: > I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure Microsoft "forked" Foxpro > developers. Amen to that, brother! -- Ed Leafe --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/signed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/pg

RE: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

+1 -Original Message- From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hemans Sent: Saturday, 7 October 2017 9:37 AM To: profoxt...@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much. "I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure Mi

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

iday, October 06, 2017 4:38 PM > To: profoxt...@leafe.com > Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much. > > Being open source guarantees that it can be forked and that we don't end > up in the dead end that VFP became. But there are other options for > strongly

RE: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Paul Hemans Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 4:38 PM To: profoxt...@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much. Being open source guarantees that it can be forked and that we don't end up in the dead end that VFP became. But there are other options for strongly typed JS av

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Being open source guarantees that it can be forked and that we don't end up in the dead end that VFP became. But there are other options for strongly typed JS available. It is just that being associated with MS means that it has stronger support, whereas other open source projects can simply dry up

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

developed and promoted by Microsoft, and widely considered as part of the MS ecosystem even if it's technically open source. perceptions weigh more than facts, I can testify. Thierry Nivelet FoxInCloud Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud http://foxincloud.com/ Le 06/10/2017 à 16:55, A

RE: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

..@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Thierry Nivelet Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 2:00 AM To: profoxt...@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much. To me the value is not so much in VFP, but in the intelligence accumulated (capitalized) into the software along the years, what fin

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On Fri, 6 Oct 2017, at 03:14 PM, Thierry Nivelet wrote: > Typescript is Microsoft; It's also open source, and only one of a range of similar tools. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscrip

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Typescript is Microsoft; Microsoft used to impose *de facto standards* in the 90's, no more chance any time soon. Thierry Nivelet FoxInCloud Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud http://foxincloud.com/ Le 06/10/2017 à 16:03, Alan Bourke a écrit : On Fri, 6 Oct 2017, at 12:08 AM, Paul

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On Fri, 6 Oct 2017, at 12:08 AM, Paul Hemans wrote: > I think everyone should be aware that Anders Hejlsberg (Turbo Pascal, > Delphi and C#) is now on Typescript. This speaks volumes. It's certainly welcome that things like TypeScript are gaining widespread acceptance and providing a way to impose

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

ammoth. -Original Message- From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Cully Sent: Friday, 6 October 2017 6:44 AM To: profoxt...@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much. I worked for a company that produced Real Estate software for

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

; it >> > can't be done but in this case an extreme amount of business logic in >> the >> > app and the task is mammoth. >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of >> Kevi

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

is case an extreme amount of business logic in the > > app and the task is mammoth. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of > Kevin > > Cully > > Sent: Friday, 6 October 2017 6:44 AM > > To

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

I'm convinced that although Vista had serious issues, the perception that Vista was terrible was made worse because of the major changes to the UI. Nobody likes change and inertia being what it is, our nature is to resist any attempt to make us change. And yes I am including myself in that ass

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

I have seen a few potential projects that the replacement had to be identical to the former product, only on a new platform. Instead of making an app that fit the platform first and doing what is needed as well. On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 4:39 AM, Alan Bourke wrote: > On Thu, 5 Oct 2017, at 10:42 P

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On Thu, 5 Oct 2017, at 10:42 PM, Darren wrote: > I know of a bank that spent upwards of 30M trying to port a VFP app, that > had been developed over 15+ years with a group of developers, to .NET - > all got dumped. 30M+ wasted None of these are a necessarily a .NET problem though, you can point t

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Thierry, I think you are onto something, though my perspective is not so much on the interface but rather the business rules. That is where I see the intangibles. Foxers have accumulated a library of business domain knowledge and some are now retiring. All that knowledge is going to be lost. What i

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Kevin Cully Sent: Friday, 6 October 2017 6:44 AM To: profoxt...@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much. I worked for a company that produced Real Estate software for the commercial side of things. We had a national client that said they were leaving our product to

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

To me the value is not so much in VFP, but in the intelligence accumulated (capitalized) into the software along the years, what finance people call 'intangible'. That's where the value really is, as we've written this back in 2010 (http://foxincloud.com/why.php). Balmer betting on a 'savior'

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Reminds me of all the COBOL programmers who got rehired to fix code that had never been replaced prior to Y2K. Hang in to your VFP y'all, they are going to keep needing us for a while. Maybe until Y3K :) Paul Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 5, 2017, at 10:31 PM, mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwa

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On 2017-10-05 15:43, Kevin Cully wrote: I worked for a company that produced Real Estate software for the commercial side of things.  We had a national client that said they were leaving our product to develop a new .NET solution with another company. They returned after 1.5 years and after spen

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On 2017-10-05 13:25, Bill Anderson wrote: Kevin, At our user group we were told by a Microsoft representative (well known to the Fox community) that Dell was throwing away all their internal applications **sight unseen** to rewrite them in the beta version of .NET 1.0. I wonder how that tur

Re: What can Xojo do? (was Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.)

as agile as VFP. Maybe it's just a case of not finding one that works like I >> think, but ultimately in all the languages I have looked at so far, there >> comes a point where I throw my hands up and give up because I can do what I >> need to in VFP so much faster and easier. &g

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

I can confirm this situation. I wrote a very complex, custom management system with VFP back office which synced to a Java based public web system sitting on top of a FirebirdSQL database. After 15 years with at least 6 different programmers trying to re-write my system they are still using al

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

gt; Sent: Friday, 6 October 2017 6:44 AM > To: profoxt...@leafe.com > Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much. > > I worked for a company that produced Real Estate software for the > commercial side of things. We had a national client that said they were > leaving

RE: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

n the app and the task is mammoth. -Original Message- From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Cully Sent: Friday, 6 October 2017 6:44 AM To: profoxt...@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much. I worked for a company that produced

What can Xojo do? (was Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.)

n my radar and I keep wondering if I should give it another run through and see where it takes me. Paul H. Tarver Email: p...@tpcqpc.com -----Original Message----- From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Cully Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 11:58 AM To: profox

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

I heard a similar story for a web rewrite of a VFP app into .net. Back to square 1 after spending $5M. Thierry Nivelet http://foxincloud.com/ Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud > Le 5 oct. 2017 à 21:43, Kevin Cully a écrit : > > I worked for a company that produced Real Estate softw

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Well, I often read from experts that rewriting a s/w using new techs was a piece of cake compared to maintaining old clumsy legacy stuff… your story sounds like a counter example. Thierry Nivelet http://foxincloud.com/ Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud > Le 5 oct. 2017 à 21:43, Kev

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

I worked for a company that produced Real Estate software for the commercial side of things.  We had a national client that said they were leaving our product to develop a new .NET solution with another company. They returned after 1.5 years and after spending $2.1M.  They started asking us fo

RE: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

n Behalf Of Kevin Cully Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 11:58 AM To: profoxt...@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much. Hello Paul, My consulting business didn't focus on creating desktop apps for resale. There are a lot of Xojo developers that do however. I wa

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Kevin, At our user group we were told by a Microsoft representative (well known to the Fox community) that Dell was throwing away all their internal applications **sight unseen** to rewrite them in the beta version of .NET 1.0. I wonder how that turned out? Bill Anderson >>For 20 years now, Mic

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

Hello Paul, My consulting business didn't focus on creating desktop apps for resale.  There are a lot of Xojo developers that do however.  I was focusing on developing custom software for small and medium businesses and Xojo is an excellent tool to rapidly develop solutions for the business.

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:01 AM, Stephen Russell wrote: > It has morphed from the .NET you all hated so much 15 years ago. They show > working in Chrome and not Bing. > It wasn't that I *HATED* DotNet, but I was disappointed in how MS treated FoxPro and developers, and that the DotNet 1.0 previ

RE: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

06 AM To: profoxt...@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much. XOJO doesn't support Android development yet. Xamarin does which is write once and portable class libraries allow you to reuse a lot of your base. On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:45 AM, Kevin Cully wrote:

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

XOJO doesn't support Android development yet. Xamarin does which is write once and portable class libraries allow you to reuse a lot of your base. On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:45 AM, Kevin Cully wrote: > For 20 years now, Microsoft has been telling me that I've been developing > with an inferior t

RE: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

8:46 AM To: profoxt...@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much. For 20 years now, Microsoft has been telling me that I've been developing with an inferior tool and that .NET is better. Is it ready now? I think I'll stick with Foxpro and now Xojo for

Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

For 20 years now, Microsoft has been telling me that I've been developing with an inferior tool and that .NET is better.  Is it ready now? I think I'll stick with Foxpro and now Xojo for developing business solutions. I don't hate .NET.  I'm just going to continue to ignore it. On 10/04/201

[NF] learn more about what you hate so much.

This is the 2017 .NET Conference Keynote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yecu4g5JYB8 It has morphed from the .NET you all hated so much 15 years ago. They show working in Chrome and not Bing. the beginning goes over NuGet if you are unfamiliar with posting packages to it. -- Stephen Russell S