At 05:57 PM 5/26/2004, Mira wrote:
Are you ready to shoot me now or I'll have one more
minute?
The leader of the firing squad says, "I'd let you have a cigarette, but
they are bad for your health"
Abd, I'm giving work away if I'd like to test
somebody. I always use one and the same design for
Oops... OK, my hands are up and I'm standing next to
the wall.
Are you ready to shoot me now or I'll have one more
minute?
Abd, I'm giving work away if I'd like to test
somebody. I always use one and the same design for
testing and this is not paid. It helps me to compare
the designs and designer
> It's been a long time (10yr) since more holes really
> affected the price
> (within extremes of course). I'd suggest that if an
> autorouted board
> took up more layers than a handrouted version, it
> wasn't done
> correctly.
> (i.e. I respectfully differ in opinion.)
Yes, I agree that nowaday
At 01:09 AM 5/26/2004, Mira wrote:
If your boss cares
about saving some money from shorting the time for
finishing the job and doesn't care about the PCB cost,
then you must be working for a design bureau.
You design the board once but it will be manufactured
many times.
Ouch. That's not necessaril
i was going to write this too
layer count of course effects cost
hole count has not been part of the cost matrix for sometime
unless you are making perf boards or something
i like a board to look nice as much as the next person
but there's just not time anymore (there used to be more!)
and prod
TED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 3:31 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router comparison
It's a reasonable compromise. With many boards, the additional labor to
complete the routing, however, is relatively small. Some people enjoy it,
it is like doing a puzzle
cost you anything ;)
PH
From: "bob stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router comparison
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:18:05 -0700
Hmmm..
--- Mira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Autorouted boards in general have more holes, use more
> layers and this affects the price.
It's been a long time (10yr) since more holes really affected the price
(within extremes of course). I'd suggest that if an autorouted board
took up more layers than
; autorouter loose
>
> getting the board back 3 or 4 days earlier than if
> it was all done by hand
> looks damn pretty to the project manager, as Eye In
> Stein said "it's all
> relative"
>
> PH
>
> >From: Abd ulRahman Lomax <[EMAIL PROTE
and
looks damn pretty to the project manager, as Eye In Stein said "it's all
relative"
PH
From: Abd ulRahman Lomax <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [PEDA] R
At 10:50 AM 5/21/2004, Indrek Rebane wrote:
Protel Hell wrote:
EM waves don't care what it looks like
Engineers do.
As do those who pay the bills. I've never seen a check signed "EM waves."
Yes, if a product does not function, prettiness will count for very, very
little. But within the range of wh
> From: Mira [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:11 PM
> To: Protel EDA Forum
> Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router comparison
>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> It's really important how experienced is a person to
> use the autorouter.
> As you said the fanout
t: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router comparison
> Mike,
>
> Would you happen to knwo any of the following?
>
> Between Situs, Electra, and Spectra, which honor:
> 1) internal board cutouts?
> 2) limited neckdown between pads and/or vias?
> 3)
r will obey them. I use via
>> keepouts, I also train and channel routing with keepouts. it takes a few
>> tricks,
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Friday, May
and channel routing with keepouts. it takes a few
> tricks,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:25 PM
> To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
> Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router
l EDA Forum'
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router comparison
Just because you WW in neat bundles doesn't mean you have to ignore signal
groups.
Anyway, I'm not wire wrapping boards. I'm making PCBs and I almost always
have mixed analog/digital on the same board. I prefer to keep the digita
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:11 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router comparison
Hi Mike,
It's really important how experienced is a person to
use the autorouter.
As you said the fanout should be done manually. The
placement is also manual work. The ro
riginal Message-
From: Mike Reagan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:52 AM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router comparison
I remember years ago an engineer getting mad at me because I wire-wrapped
his circuit trying to make it look nice and neat
Dear Hell,
Protel Hell wrote:
EM waves don't care what it looks like
Engineers do. Keeping things tidy and clutter free saves time and
nerves. Imagine a DCO to a complex design, if board is routed nice and
clean manner, DCO is way less painful - cluttered design usually needs
total re-routing on th
y hand. They always look 'auto routed', busses
> seem to not stay together,
> >etc.
> >
> >I am about a week into my Electra trial, and it got
> a current board to 100%
> >with no violations, but it looks like hell. I would
> have so much clean up, I
>
Tom Robinson wrote:
I remember years ago an engineer getting mad at me because I wire-wrapped
his circuit trying to make it look nice and neat with all the wires bundled
together in "streets & avenues". He said it was a big cross talk problem. He
wanted point-to-point with just a little slack in t
I remember years ago an engineer getting mad at me because I wire-wrapped
his circuit trying to make it look nice and neat with all the wires bundled
together in "streets & avenues". He said it was a big cross talk problem. He
wanted point-to-point with just a little slack in the wire length.
he wire length.
Looks like some things never change.
tr :)
-Original Message-
From: edsi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:13 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router comparison
Tony
> But do you spend 'days' each time you do a board? I rather jus
EM waves don't care what it looks like
From: "Tony Karavidas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router comparison
Date: Thu, 20 May
to 100%
>with no violations, but it looks like hell. I would have so much clean up, I
>rather just route the board by hand...again. I am trying different
>instructions in the DO file, and maybe that will help.
>
>Tony
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: edsi [mailto:[EM
at will help.
Tony
-Original Message-
From: edsi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 2:44 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router comparison
Good question Joe
I plan to phase out my usage with Spectra, Since I have an older version,
with not quite all t
From: "edsi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:47 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router comparison
> Joe,
>
> I forgot to list why I prefer the ELECTRA router. It simply protects the
"protects&quo
The name ELECTRA -- it has a nice ring to it.
tr :)
-Original Message-
From: edsi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 5:44 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router comparison
Good question Joe
I plan to phase out my usage with Spectra, Since I have an
Joe,
I forgot to list why I prefer the ELECTRA router. It simply protects the "protects"
better.
By comparison, Spectra, lets say I have a fairly large board.
I want select all remaining nets for routing. I use SELECT FROMTO, PROTECT ALL WIRES.
If I know the names of busses, wires and net
At 05:43 PM 5/19/2004, edsi wrote:
You guys need to plunk 3 K down and purchase the ELECTRA router.
Then learn to use it. I never like to hear "WE ALWAYS ROUTE BY HAND".
That tells me you are designing small boards, or dont know how to use a
router. or you are simply farming out a design that
have spent some time with the Electra router, care to
>expound some virtues since I was working and my demo expired long before I
>had any real time to spend on it.
>
>Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "edsi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
&g
>Mike,
>
>Protel costs roughly 8K$ and has its low end router included as only a
>portion of that. To compare apples and oranges, very roughly what do
>Electra and Spectra cost nowadays?
>
Jeff,
A full version of ELECTRA is 3k, a full version of SPECTRA can be upwards of 45K.
With the excepti
working and my demo expired long before I
had any real time to spend on it.
Joe
- Original Message -
From: "edsi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router compariso
At 03:49 PM 5/19/2004, edsi wrote:
A full version of ELECTRA is 3k, a full version of SPECTRA can be upwards
of 45K. With the exception of matched lengths and pairs, the ELECTRA
router will do anything Specta can. I am begging ELECTRA to come out
with paired routing.
Paired routing should not
el EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router comparison
> Ian
>
> How is this for a comparisionI can offload my routing to a 100 MHZ
laptop with 40 meg of RAM.Both ELECTRA and SPECTRA will route a 2000
component design
Joe,
If you are designing boards full time and not just a few boards a year, a good
router is a must. I keep a log. I designed over 40 boards for each of the past 6
years.The router costs are easy for me to justify.
I also perfer having 2nd party software for routing because i
;Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Router comparison
> Ian
>
> How is this for a comparisionI can offload my routing to a 100 MHZ
laptop with 40 meg of RAM.Both ELECTRA and SPECTRA will route a 2000
co
Ian
How is this for a comparisionI can offload my routing to a 100 MHZ laptop with 40
meg of RAM.Both ELECTRA and SPECTRA will route a 2000 component design in less
than a few hours. 99- 100 percent complete.AND they dont choke on memory. I dont
need the recommended 1 GIG of me
38 matches
Mail list logo
