Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

On Aug 22, 2007, at 7:03 PM, Bijan Parsia wrote: Following Matthias's suggestion, I started adding them to this page: (At the bottom under issues.) Would you prefer they migrated to the recommendations page (which is where, IIRC, Alan s

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

On Aug 22, 2007, at 2:50 AM, Jonathan Rees wrote: Sure - to list alternatives with costs and benefits is just what I've proposed to do in order to civilize these debates, and as a waypoint toward drafting the fabled 'recommendations' report. I'm sorry I've been inactive on the list but oth

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

Sure - to list alternatives with costs and benefits is just what I've proposed to do in order to civilize these debates, and as a waypoint toward drafting the fabled 'recommendations' report. I'm sorry I've been inactive on the list but other matters have been pressing. I have been trying t

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

On 21 Aug 2007, at 18:49, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eric wrote I would like to follow up with Bijan suggestion and try to phrase some of the 'disputes and considerations' in terms of problem statement and pro-con solutions. Maybe this is something we could add to the "Comparison matrix of

Re: RE: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

Eric wrote > I would like to follow up with Bijan suggestion and try to phrase some of > the 'disputes and considerations' in terms of problem statement and pro-con > solutions. Maybe this is something we could add to the "Comparison matrix of URI proposals" Wiki page. http://esw.w3.org/topic

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

Bijan Parsia wrote: I identified 3 problems, and this is only one. However, DNS doesn't even do that *if I reuse your URIs*, or if I reuse your URI space (which you may want me to do). E.g., I say http://ex.org/#Bijan a Philosopher. and you say http://ex.org/#Bijan a PerfumeMaker. I

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

Bijan Parsia wrote: I suspect there's a difference in kind. E.g., "your website is down" is really quite different than "You don't use HTTP uris." From the point of view of someone who wants to resolve a URI, both cases equal "it doesn't work", don't think it matters much what the excuse is.

RE: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

Jonathan, I would like to follow up with Bijan suggestion and try to phrase some of the 'disputes and considerations' in terms of problem statement and pro-con solutions. Can you help organize this and make sure it gets added to the URI Best Practices web site? thanks, Eric - On 21 Aug 2

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

On 21 Aug 2007, at 11:55, Eric Jain wrote: Bijan Parsia wrote: This was addressed in this thread. HTTP uris create expectations of dereferencing and are generally reported as bugs if they don't dereference. The thing is, quiet a few people seem to have the expectation that they should b

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

Bijan Parsia wrote: This was addressed in this thread. HTTP uris create expectations of dereferencing and are generally reported as bugs if they don't dereference. The thing is, quiet a few people seem to have the expectation that they should be able to resolve anything, and I can tell you th

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

On 21 Aug 2007, at 10:12, Eric Jain wrote: Bijan Parsia wrote: I don't really see why HTTP uris are preferred, even as a default. I think the argument is really simple: Thanks! 1. If you do not want to dereference, I don't see why you would care whether a URI is a URL or a URN or whatno

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

Bijan Parsia wrote: I don't really see why HTTP uris are preferred, even as a default. I think the argument is really simple: 1. If you do not want to dereference, I don't see why you would care whether a URI is a URL or a URN or whatnot -- as long as it is unique. 2. The most practical so

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

On Aug 20, 2007, at 5:51 PM, Booth, David (HP Software - Boston) wrote: Bijan, Certainly we want these recommendations to have uptake, every approach has costs, and every recommendation has its own scope of applicability. But different people weigh the costs and benefits differently. Of c

RE: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

> From: Michel_Dumontier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > From: David Booth > > [ . . . ] > > Can you explain specific cases in which you see usefully > > dereferenceable URIs as NOT being so convenient for the discoverer? > > Sure, when the URI refers to a resource for which information about i

RE: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

> > > and making URIs > > > dereferenceable to useful metadata is certainly one > > > convenient way to help do so. > > > > Really? The point of these examples is that there are a variety of > > cases which for a variety of reasons it's not so convenient > > (actually, either for the minter or th

RE: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

Bijan, Certainly we want these recommendations to have uptake, every approach has costs, and every recommendation has its own scope of applicability. But different people weigh the costs and benefits differently. Yes, some may view the cost of minting dereferenceable URIs as too high in some sit

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

On Aug 18, 2007, at 4:02 AM, Booth, David (HP Software - Boston) wrote: From: Bijan Parsia On 9 Aug 2007, at 10:32, Xiaoshu Wang wrote: [ . . . ] What kind of difference does it make to an agent for the following two resources. a) http://404/a/b/c - returns a 404 b) lsid:404:a:b:c- non-de

RE: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

> From: Bijan Parsia > > On 9 Aug 2007, at 10:32, Xiaoshu Wang wrote: > > [ . . . ] > > What kind of difference does it > > make to an agent for the following two resources. > > a) http://404/a/b/c - returns a 404 > > b) lsid:404:a:b:c- non-dereferenciable > > Clearly it marks a difference

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

Xiaoshu Wang wrote: [...] why not designate a top domain name like "tmp" to signal this. For instance, use "http://example.com.tmp/doc"; as the temporary URI for the eventual resource of "http://example.com/doc";. There are in fact already several reserved TLDs such as .test and .invalid,

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

Bijan Parsia wrote: Furthermore, there is a social expectation that if you share http uris that you should be able to pop them into a web browser and get something. A 404 means the uri you gave is *broken*. So you would have to field lots of queries about the brokenness. Again, it is social ex

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

On 9 Aug 2007, at 10:32, Xiaoshu Wang wrote: Bijan Parsia wrote: On 8 Aug 2007, at 15:30, Xiaoshu Wang wrote: Chimezie, The employee wants to build an ontology and doesn't have control over web space. She considers using the tag scheme instead of an HTTP scheme (with a bogus domain na

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

Bijan Parsia wrote: On 8 Aug 2007, at 15:30, Xiaoshu Wang wrote: Chimezie, The employee wants to build an ontology and doesn't have control over web space. She considers using the tag scheme instead of an HTTP scheme (with a bogus domain name such as http://example.com/clinical-medicine/s

RE: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

> > Sure, HTTP URIs can be used as identifiers, but why would I > > mint arbitrary HTTP URIs when I can use a scheme that has no > > resolution protocol implicitly or explicitly associated with > > it? > > Indeed, in this case there would be no benefit to using HTTP URIs. But > the situation you

RE: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

> From: Michel_Dumontier > [ . . . ] > In complete contrast to both of these is the case where a user > like me, has no intent to publish any documents on the web, but > requires a stable identifier to make statements about things. > Sure, HTTP URIs can be used as identifiers, but why would I > mi

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

On 8 Aug 2007, at 15:30, Xiaoshu Wang wrote: Chimezie, The employee wants to build an ontology and doesn't have control over web space. She considers using the tag scheme instead of an HTTP scheme (with a bogus domain name such as http://example.com/clinical-medicine/surgical-procedures#mi

RE: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

> In any case, the most practical non-HTTP URIs that are in use at the > moment > seem to be LSIDs and DOIs; both have an associated resolution protocol... Whereas the bm or info scheme does not. -=Michel=-

RE: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

> Indeed, especially since at the moment HTTP URIs will cost you at least 5 > cents a piece, whereas non-HTTP URIs may go for as little as 2 cents each! Ha! Nice! -=Michel=-

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

Michel_Dumontier wrote: Sure, HTTP URIs can be used as identifiers, but why would I mint arbitrary HTTP URIs when I can use a scheme that has no resolution protocol implicitly or explicitly associated with it? Indeed, especially since at the moment HTTP URIs will cost you at least 5 cents a

RE: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

> Chimezie, > > The employee wants to build an ontology and doesn't have control over > > web space. She considers using the tag scheme instead of an HTTP scheme > > (with a bogus domain name such as > > http://example.com/clinical-medicine/surgical-procedures#minimally- > invasive-procedure) be

Re: Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

Chimezie, The employee wants to build an ontology and doesn't have control over web space. She considers using the tag scheme instead of an HTTP scheme (with a bogus domain name such as http://example.com/clinical-medicine/surgical-procedures#minimally-invasive-procedure) because the latter sce

Does follow-your-nose apply in the enterprise? was: RDF for molecules, using InChI

I don't mean to prolong this thread, but it has trickled into conversations about some aspects of the follow-your-nose semantic web which should be carefully considered by people building semantic web solutions in 'enterprise' environments. This particular shoe does not always fit. On Tue, 2007-