Ah, I didn't know about :samp: and the {...} notation. Feel free to
convert all my examples that way.
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:26 PM, Georg Brandl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Guido van Rossum schrieb:
>> Good catches.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 3:29 AM,
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problem, you should know of it.
> If it's my problem---I've found the work 'round but I'd like to
> understand.
>
> Thanks! Dave.
>
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On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Terry Reedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> No, no, no! *Eventually* Python 3.0 will just be "python". Until
>> then, it needs to be "python3.0".
>
> I think you should consider chang
a particular minor version (e.g. 2.5, 2.6), not just
to a major version, so your #! line should probably be #!/usr/bin/env
python3.0 or whatever version you know works.
> Ed
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Guido van Rossum
> Sent: Fri 11/14/2008
that for python3.
> Or you could leave the python just for 2.
>
> Ed
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On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 3:35 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anyway, like I said: it's one more thing to add to the list of
> surprises in Python 3.0.
I'm happy to do so. I expect that over time it won't be an issue.
--
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rs - and for a good reason" ;-)
>
> not-all-good-reasons-are-particularly-good-ly y'rs - tim
Hah! I can vouch that this is pretty much how it went. It's a good
thing our process has changed a bit; in today's world this would have
required a PEP, and for good reason. I would
it.
In short, I'll have None of it.
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nse to keep email out of
> the initial 3.0 release, rather than put a half-broken version in with
> special "we can totally change the API for the next release" dispensation?
Tough call. I'm inclined to give people *something* in 3.0 with the
promise we'll fix i
sGb9uPqVpbkM
> /G2hdboSdkw=
> =j4Cy
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
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> Note that the whole httplib uses this behavior -- issue 1348.
>
> Bill
>
> Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I see no problem in fixing this in 3.0 and 2.6.1. The current behavior
>> is a bug and I see no reason to expect that users would depend
he _BufferedIOMixin discard exceptions from flush?
>> Errors should never pass silently.
>
> Ack!
>
>> Also, why does the FileIO.close first invoke _FileIO.close, then
>> RawIOBase.close? IIUC, FileIO.close will close the file handle,
>> yet RawIOBase will attempt to flu
g
>
> +1
I expect that the only effect of this change would be that the
filesystem encoding would become the de-facto default encoding for
other contexts as well.
Not that that is necessarily a bad thing...
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3.0 rc 3
19-Nov-2008 3.0 rc 4
03-Dec-2008 3.0 final
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's why the implementation got it right.
--Guido
On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 7:14 PM, wesley chun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Raymond Hettinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
oblems. I think handling files containing Unicode names properly and
> compatibly, together with a migration path for file not in Unicode is
> about the best that can be expected.
The low-level solution(s) we'll be making available in 3.0 should
enable you to implement this and many o
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 7:36 AM, Antoine Pitrou <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The average user does not even /know/ what a charset is.
Except those users who need the feature. They certainly have no
trouble learning how to make the pages readable once someone explains
it to them.
--
--
OError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'NFD-xäx'
>
> If the user chooses a result from os.listdir(): no problem (if he has good
> eyes and he's able to find the difference between 'xäx' (NFD) and 'xäx'
> (NFC) :-D).
>
> If the user enters the fil
FileNotFoundException.
>
> IOW, Java hasn't solved the problem in the last 10 years. Marcin
> Kowalczyk did a more thorough analysis about a year ago in
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-3000/2007-September/010450.html
I can't say I like the Java solution. I w
> on Windows complicates things.
Plus, even on Linux Unicode is *usually* what you should be doing,
unless you're writing a backup tool.
> I already tend to avoid os.getcwd() though, and this is just one more reason
> to avoid it. In the rare cases where I really do need it, it looks
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm also starting to wonder if allowing mixed types might be the way to
> go for these interfaces - leaving the bytes objects in place if the
> Unicode decode operation fails.
No, no, nooooo!
--
--Gu
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:29 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> However
>> the *proposed* behavior (returns bytes if the arg was bytes, and
>> returns str when the arg was str) is IMO sane, and no different than
>&
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Terry Reedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Terry Reedy wrote:
>>
>> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>>> I'm not sure either way. I've heard it claim that Windows filesystem
>>> APIs use Unicode natively. Does Python 3.0
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:04 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:00 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>>> Change the default file system encoding to s
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Terry Reedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Georg Brandl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Victor Stinner schrieb:
>>>>
>>>>
names expressed as bytes? Are they encoded first before
passing to the Unicode APIs? Using what encoding?
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y the
> behavior of this and other fixers.
I'm not sure what you're proposing. *My* proposal is that 2to3 changes
os.getcwdu() calls to os.getcwd() and leaves os.getcwd() calls alone
-- there's no way to tell whether os.getcwdb() would be a better
match, and for portable
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Bill Janssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Bill Janssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Victor Stinner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> &g
s bytes if the arg was bytes, and
returns str when the arg was str) is IMO sane, and no different than
the polymorphism found in len() or many builtin operations.
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ally broken by unexpected input. Think os.getcwd(),
> sys.argv, os.environ. You can't just ignore bad files and call it done.
Actually that is what you *have* to do with the
filesystem-as-a-black-box model. Filesystems reserve the right to fail
occasionally and there's nothing yo
t is in bytes and it will return everything exactly as
the underlying syscall returns it to you.
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cases, the code that reads them is responsible for
picking an encoding or relying on a default encoding, and the
resulting filenames are always expressed as text, not bytes. I don't
think it's the same at all.
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retty much released already I'd ask to add
os.getcwdb() there, as an alias for os.getcwd(), and add a 2to3 fixer
that converts os.getcwdu() to os.getcwd(), leaves os.getcwd() alone
(benefit of the doubt) and leaves os.getcwdb() alone as well (a strong
indication the user meant to get bytes in the
that doesn't understand this subclass. You are
hinting at this in your last paragraph.
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ready done
for you. But the output of utf-8b is indistinguishable from regular
utf-8 so you don't know whether you need to unescape things.
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enOffice can't open files with invalid bytes in their
> name. They are displayed in the "Open file" dialog, but trying to open fails.
> This regularly drives me crazy. Let's not make Python not work this way too,
> or, even worse, not even display those filenames.
How can
s.
Martin, I don't understand why you are in favor of storing raw bytes
encoded as Latin-1 in Unicode string objects, which clearly gives rise
to mojibake. In the past you have always been staunchly opposed to API
changes or practices that could lead to mojibake (and you had me quite
convinc
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:55 PM, Terry Reedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Le Monday 29 September 2008 19:06:01 Guido van Rossum, vous avez écrit :
>
>>> I know I keep flipflopping on this one, but the more I think about it
>>> the more I believe it is better
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Victor Stinner
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Le Monday 29 September 2008 19:06:01 Guido van Rossum, vous avez écrit :
>> >> - listdir(unicode) -> unicode and raise an error on invalid filename
>>
>> I know I keep flipflopping on
don't know if the kernel enforces this. I tried to create a file named
b'\xff' and it came out as %ff. Then "rm %ff" worked. So I think it
may be replacing all bad UTF8 sequences with their % encoding.
The "set filesystem encoding
pp the choice to
use a PyVarObject actually makes a difference.
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> guarantee about the ordering of keys, values and items is made. Can we
> settle on something like this and spell it out explicitly somewhere in the
> 3.0 docs?
That's a C API definition that hasn't been updated. If anything
documents the concept of a
ange in CPython (note the caveat of no changes); (b) users will
write working code that subtly depends on it, without even realizing it; (c)
no amount of documentation is going to get those users not to make that
assumption; (d) but documenting this requirement (for dicts) is sure
he Python standard library).
+1.
Remember the xml / _xmlplus debacle?
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On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 7:07 PM, Raymond Hettinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [Guido van Rossum]
>>
>> Well, from the number of release blockers it sounds like another 3.0
>> beta is the right thing. For 2.6 however I believe we're much closer
>> to the finis
On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Benjamin Peterson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 6:23 AM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> I don't think there&
we release the finals on 15-October.
>
> - -Barry
Perhaps it's time to separate the 2.6 and 3.0 release schedules? I
don't care if the next version of OSX contains 3.0 or not -- but I do
care about it having 2.6.
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On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 2:23 PM, Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> All in all, given the advantage (half the number of allocations) of
>> the proposal I think there would have to be *very* good arguments
>> against before we reject
All in all, given the advantage (half the number of allocations) of
the proposal I think there would have to be *very* good arguments
against before we reject this outright. I'd like to understand
Marc-Andre's reasons too.
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>>
>> Regards
>>
>> --
>> -Anand
>>
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On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Sep 4, 2008, at 3:51 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> I'm a little confused -- why did you remove the release notes for
>> previous betas but leave those for the alphas in pla
you shouldn't change the flag
> after the thread is started anyway.
As to the why question, this was done to match the Java Thread class.
I don't want to speculate why the Java API was designed this way --
possibly it was a relic of an earlier API version in Java, but
possibly there's
> as a key function in 3.0.
>
>
> Raymond
>
>
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precating in 3.0 and removal in 3.1 would actually
send the *wrong* message, since it is very much alive! I am grateful
for Jesus to have taken over maintenance, and hope that the package
blossoms in its newfound freedom.
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precating in 3.0 and removal in 3.1 would actually
send the *wrong* message, since it is very much alive! I am grateful
for Jesus to have taken over maintenance, and hope that the package
blossoms in its newfound freedom.
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ting?
That souds like a bug. IMO TypeError is the right response here.
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may need to pass such an
object to some library code we didn't write that is making some
trivial use of len(), like the examples I gave before.
That said, I would actually be okay with the status quo (which does
raise an OverflowError) as long as we commit to fixing this properly
in 2.7 / 3
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Raymond Hettinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: "Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> The way I see it is that there are tons of ways I can think of how
>> raising OverflowError can break unsuspecting program
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Daniel Stutzbach
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I stand by my view. I might voice strong discomfort with raising an
>> exception because it doesn't f
ort with raising an
exception because it doesn't fit in some implementation detail.
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"y#:write", &cp, &size) doesn't accept
> bytearrays.
There are two separate bugs here: it's true that dev.write() should
accept a bytearray instance, but dev.read() should have returned
bytes.
And yes, Aahz is right, please take a min
/O library or a database wrapper. Forcing
XML to be interpreted as binary isn't always the best idea. E.g.
consider storing XML in a SVN repository. Or consider storing XML
fragments in Python string literals.
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ars to fix this, I'd say
> fix it... Having it around is pretty ugly, when the "real" stat() is
> actually in os.
Why? We could just deprecate it and rip it out in 3.1 or 3.2.
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_
gt; obj1 > obj2
> False
>
> It should be possible to make them play more nicely with others in 3.x
> where that undesirable fallback behaviour is gone though.
I thought in 3.0 they already behave cooperatively? set_richcompare()
returns NotImplemented (where in 2.x it raises TypeErr
On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 1179[CVE-2007-4965] Integer overflow in imageop module
>> - - High priority
>> - - This will block final release and I think it needs to be fixed for this
>> beta.
Submitted the patc
release and I think it needs to be fixed for this
> beta.
I'll look into this. Didn't we have a patch?
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On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 11:57 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 2008-08-07 19:09, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> Sounds like a plan. Make sure it is prominently mentioned in Misc/NEWS.
>
> Committed as r65582.
Thanks!
> All tests pass except test_
s pass
for me in a debug build of the p3yk branch as well.
I recommend "make distclean" and then ./configure --with-pydebug; make.
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On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 9:10 AM, Bill Janssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I'm trying to run the regression suite on a checkout of the Py3K trunk
>
> DO you mean the trunk (which is 2.6)
Sounds like a plan. Make sure it is prominently mentioned in Misc/NEWS.
On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 10:03 AM, M.-A. Lemburg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 2008-08-07 18:40, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 5:18 AM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
branch. I'll get my PPC 10.4 machine unfrozen and test
there too.
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fer not introducing such instability this late in the beta processes,
> but I agree that fixing it now will be better in the long term.
I see this as a sufficient endorsement. Marc-Andre, can you do this?
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_
>
> Is it too late for that ?
That kind of depends on how far other 3rd party projects are in
porting their extensions to Py3k, and how much they've bought into
these APIs. I recall that mechanically translating these APIs to
something else can easily introduce memory leaks.
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On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Neal Norwitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 10:07 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>>
Cool.
I hope others can review, and you should ask Barry if this is okay for beta3.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 2008/7/30 Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Amaury Forgeot
could make sense, but this would require more changes in
> the compiler,
> to properly order the parameters.
Are you saying that after the above Grammar change, the code generator
already does the right thing for Raymond's code? Then I say go for it
-- but please do add new unit test
abcdef', 'AB'
>>>> list(izip_longest(fillvalue='x', *args))
>
> [('a', 'A'), ('b', 'B'), ('c', 'x'), ('d', 'x'), ('e', 'x'), ('f', 'x
use
MemoryError consistently.
FWIW, are there any legitimate occurrences of OverflowError in Py3k
now that ints have unlimited range?
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s)
If you reverse the two parts it will work:
izip_longest(fillvalue=fillvalue, *args)
This works in 2.6 and 3.0. It would be nice to allow the other order
too, I know it's tripped me up... But the syntax would become really
tricky. So let's strive to fix this for 3.1 rath
--
> Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less.
> Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy
> indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou
> two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. T
to supply the keywords arguments after the variable length argument as well.
Agreed. I doubt that this will be a simple enough change to allow it
in 3.0 though.
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> (Bertrand Russell)
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Is omitting the `n` parameter always supported by RawIOBase implementations?
> (meaning: read up to the end)
In this (and many other) cases I consider io.py to be more correct; I
haven't kept the PEP up to date. Note that None and any negative value
should be treated the same way. Zero OTOH
ier to track the versions of
Berkeley DB as they come out.
Of course, you're free to try writing the work-alike you're proposing. :-)
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On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:43 PM, Brett Cannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Fred Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> On Jul 17, 2008, at 7:27 PM, Ma
now and October, ask for a code review unless
you're really sure. Also, remember, NO NEW FEATURES!
> Thanks everyone.
> - -Barry
And thanks Barry for doing the release!!!
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the core Python release.
+1. In my recollection maintaining bsddb has been nothing but trouble
right from the start when we were all sitting together at "Zope Corp
North" in a rented office in McLean... We can remove it from 3.0. We
can't really remove it from 2.6, but we can certain
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Jesse Noller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:16 AM, Jesse Noller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> 3375: Guido (thanks guido)
just remove all keys that have NullImporter values
from that variable just before attempting to import the module that
was just built. I'm hoping for something subtler though; I wonder if
there's an identifyable point where the lib directory got created.
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e who knows how to add
> commit privs can make the call (which I suspect will be in the
> positive).
I'm all in favor of commit privs for Antoine!
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Pyt
> I assume no one objects to sunaudio's removal, but I just wanted to
> double-check as it was not explicitly made its own list item in the
> PEP.
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n is coming
> from.
Sounds like a good analysis to me. No bug here. Move along, nothing to see here!
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On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 12:00 AM, Raymond Hettinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: "Guido van Rossum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> The new failure in 3.0 is a side effect of the translation (mostly) of
>> list comps into genexps. The underlying probl
ely
subtle reason for that.)
I think there are old threads about this.
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h
top an iterator based on some predicate you can use
> itertools.takewhile())
To be sure, IMO the generator expression is wrong in interpreting the
StopIteration exception! It should fail the same way the list
comprehension fails.
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ld behave the same way, but I could be wrong.
>
> I hope this isn't an old issue, but I've been lurking for a few months and
> haven't heard any discussion of this.
>
> -- Carl Johnson
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d
hence so were the rollbacks. Possibly Raymond forgot to block the 2.6
changes.
> - SSL changes
Talk to Bill Janssen.
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On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jul 1, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Raymond Hettinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> From: "Barry Warsaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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