[Python-3000] It's a statement! It's a function! It's BOTH!

2006-04-01 Thread Talin
ce is the default: # No space between args print sep="", arg, arg, arg Heck, why not even make it a function: # Insert enough spaces between args to align to 8-char boundaries print sep=tabToNext( 8 ), arg, arg, arg Finally, there

Re: [Python-3000] It's a statement! It's a function! It's BOTH!

2006-04-02 Thread Talin
erpreted by the parser. And I > could call that ugly, hard to implement, etc. No worries. My purpose here is to "think the unthinkable", not to argue that I'm right. I often throw out wild ideas at my work; occasionally I hit a bullseye. In the mean time, criticism is welcome an

[Python-3000] A few small py3k wishes

2006-04-02 Thread Talin
-- A path-globbing function that supports the perforce-style syntax "..." (three dots) to mean "all descendants". So for example, "foo/.../*.cpp" matches any cpp files in foo or any of its subdirectories. That should be enough for the moment. -- Talin _

Re: [Python-3000] A few small py3k wishes

2006-04-02 Thread Talin
Alex Martelli gmail.com> writes: > for k, v in sorted(d.iteritems()): Ah, thanks! I didn't know that worked. (The missing piece was that I wasn't aware that relative comparisons worked on tuples. I even looked in the library reference manual under "sequence types") > A module can be imported se

Re: [Python-3000] A few small py3k wishes

2006-04-02 Thread Talin
mon usage pattern for a particular source file to be run as both a main and as an imported module. Suppose you have a bunch of test data that is in a subdir of your source file. You'd like to be able to have a single, uniform way to locate your module's data, regardless if you are __mai

Re: [Python-3000] A few small py3k wishes

2006-04-02 Thread Talin
ath.dirname( __file__ ) for name in os.listdir( dirname ): if fnmatch.fnmatch( name, "*.py" ) and name != "__init__.py": mod = __import__( "%s.%s" % ( __name__, os.path.splitext( name )[ 0 ] ) ) Perhaps the answer i

Re: [Python-3000] String formating operations in python 3k

2006-04-05 Thread Talin
==> "(800) 555-1212" Here's a link to a reference page for the various formatting options: http://blog.stevex.net/index.php/string-formatting-in-csharp/ In general, I would be very much in favor of a convention that allows mixed positional and named arguments. As much as I like the %

Re: [Python-3000] Sane transitive adaptation

2006-04-08 Thread Talin
the code is going to be so different from 2.x that there won't be any possibility of automated migration - unless you decide up front that the use of generics is going to be restrained and controlled, at least initially. Personally I'm fine with breaking from the past. But I

[Python-3000] string.format

2006-04-08 Thread Talin
and __getitem__ have fewer side effects than __call__. All right I'm done. Back to my other Python programming... :) -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe:

Re: [Python-3000] AST access (WAS: Adaptation vs. Generic Functions)

2006-04-10 Thread Talin
r, by the way, is that it was implemented as a generator -- thus, if there was an ambiguous match, it returned all of the possible matches in sequence. It attempted to order the matches so that the most specific matches were returned first (although my metric of specificity was rather loose.) -- Talin

Re: [Python-3000] AST access (WAS: Adaptation vs. Generic Functions)

2006-04-10 Thread Talin
y I can't make the > April 17 deadline. Have a look at reflex.py (in the cheese shop), a very tiny, bare-bones lexer which is intended for just this sort of thing. (Well, it can be used for bigger things too - I've managed to implement a complete

Re: [Python-3000] AST access (WAS: Adaptation vs. Generic Functions)

2006-04-10 Thread Talin
metadata to terms of the expression. Just a thought, not to be taken too seriously... -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Python-3000] More wishful thinking

2006-04-15 Thread Talin
ys wondered if it would be possible to invent a "comprehension- style" syntax for reduce. I have absolutely no good ideas on this one, even though I've been pondering it for years... 6) Although I would not want to propose that Python ado

Re: [Python-3000] More wishful thinking

2006-04-15 Thread Talin
er than that, the code seems cleaner to me - in other words, we concern ourselves only test part of the match first, and only after we've determined that there is a match, we start to look at the specific attributes of the match. -- Talin ___ Pyt

Re: [Python-3000] More wishful thinking

2006-04-15 Thread Talin
Talin acm.org> writes: > 2) A suggestion which I've seen others bring up before is the use of > the * operator for tuple packing / unpacking operations, i.e.: > > a, *b = (1, 2, 3) I wanted to add another case that I run across in my code a lot. I often times want t

Re: [Python-3000] More wishful thinking

2006-04-16 Thread Talin
Guido van Rossum python.org> writes: > On 4/15/06, Talin acm.org> wrote: > > Another grab-bag of language ideas / wishes. Some of these are > > items that have been raised before on other lists - I want to get them > > written down so that they can be rejected quickly

[Python-3000] Test and Assign [was: More wishful thinking]

2006-04-16 Thread Talin
's what folks want ::) (One of the things I've been doing is going through my codebase looking for coding patterns that are awkward attempts to get around language limitations.) PS. I meant to change the title of that last post as well - could whoever rep

Re: [Python-3000] Cleaning up argument list parsing (was Re: More wishful thinking)

2006-04-16 Thread Talin
with the positional argumens. The important thing is that the behavior be clear and unambiguous, which I think this is. -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-3000] Function call speed (Was: Cleaning up argument listparsing)

2006-04-17 Thread Talin
Paul Moore gmail.com> writes: > > On 4/17/06, Terry Reedy udel.edu> wrote: > > > > "Talin" acm.org> wrote in message > > news:loom.20060417T072709-664 post.gmane.org... > > > The important thing is that the behavior be clear and unambigu

Re: [Python-3000] Cleaning up argument list parsing (was Re: More wishful thinking)

2006-04-17 Thread Talin
Greg Ewing canterbury.ac.nz> writes: > Talin wrote: > > > In this case, however, I don't see why we can't have the keyword > > arguments out of order. > > But what's the *benefit* of being allowed to write that? > > > The important

Re: [Python-3000] Function call speed (Was: Cleaning up argument listparsing)

2006-04-18 Thread Talin
n the interpreter would use it, otherwise it would fall back to the older means of transforming the arguments into a tuple and a dict. In any case, the reason why this is "Py3K" material is that it involves busting the existing C API to some extent. -- Talin ___

[Python-3000] PEP - string.format

2006-04-19 Thread Talin
the PEP is explicit enough about the details of operation that a prototype should be fairly straightforward. -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.o

Re: [Python-3000] New built-in function: bin()

2006-04-21 Thread Talin
library, that takes an int and a number base? (The name is horrid, I know.) -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-3000] Type Expressions

2006-04-21 Thread Talin
is point, but if there is a consensus on both the "keywords after *args" and "keyword only" arguments, I can write up a PEP for that, if that would be useful. -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http:/

Re: [Python-3000] PEP - string.format

2006-04-21 Thread Talin
Talin acm.org> writes: > I decided to take some of the ideas discussed in the string formatting > thread, add a few touches of my own, and write up a PEP. > > http://viridia.org/python/doc/PEP_AdvancedStringFormatting.txt > > (I've also submitted the PEP via the norma

Re: [Python-3000] Pronouncement on parameter lists

2006-04-21 Thread Talin
ed to supply a value for 'x', that would be an error in the second example, but not the first. -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.pyt

Re: [Python-3000] PEP - string.format

2006-04-21 Thread Talin
Giovanni Bajo develer.com> writes: > Talin wrote: > > > http://viridia.org/python/doc/PEP_AdvancedStringFormatting.txt > > Some comments: Excellent feedback. I won't address everything at once - instead I'd like to collect feedback from various people and

Re: [Python-3000] Pronouncement on parameter lists

2006-04-21 Thread Talin
Guido van Rossum python.org> writes: > FWIW Talin, if you're writing up a PEP for this, could I ask you to > also specify a new introspection API? A function foo should have a > magic attribute foo.__signature__ which provides access to the > argument names and defaults

Re: [Python-3000] Type Comparisons with Godel Numbers

2006-04-21 Thread Talin
ser knows that they are paying the cost for the conversion. "Explicit is better than implicit". -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-3000] PEP - string.format

2006-04-21 Thread Talin
gt; dictionary-like objects, and requires a dictionary copy whenever an > actual dictionary is used. Right. Let me think about this one. > In the case of positional arguments it is currently an error if you > don't use all your positional arguments with %. Would it be an error in > this case? I dunno. It certainly could be implemented that way, but I am not sure why it should be. > Should the custom formatter get any opportunity to finalize the > formatted string (e.g., "here's the finished string, give me what you > want to return")? Easier to just pass the string to a function I think. Great stuff Ian, thanks for spending the time to write such a detailed critique. -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Python-3000] Open Issues for string.format PEP

2006-04-22 Thread Talin
flattening it via **args? 5) Should the implementation attempt to detect unused arguments? I'd like to get some sense of the answers before the next revision of the PEP. -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http:/

[Python-3000] Minor hitch writing the Function Signature PEP

2006-04-22 Thread Talin
s a keyword argument; or it could be in the **kwargs dict. I'm not saying that solving this is impossible; what I am saying is that its: -- slow -- makes the example very complicated and hard to understand. And, as we all know, if its hard to understand then its probably wrong. --

Re: [Python-3000] rough draft signature PEP

2006-04-22 Thread Talin
nal version in any way. There is already a list of things to > consider and I am sure there are some things discussed during the new > parameter list ideas that could stand to be worked in. I am quite > happy to work on finishing this PEP so that Talin can focus on the > parameter list

[Python-3000] PEP: Keyword-Only Arguments

2006-04-23 Thread Talin
I've submitted the "Keyword-Only Arguments" PEP that we've been discussing. You can also read it here: http://www.viridia.org/python/doc/PEP_KeywordOnlyArguments.txt -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] ht

Re: [Python-3000] Minor hitch writing the Function Signature PEP

2006-04-23 Thread Talin
Bill Birch tpg.com.au> writes: > > On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 05:36 am, Talin wrote: > > precondition( y=NotNegative ) > > def power( x, y ): > >... > > ...where 'NotNegative' is a function which simply does an assert( value >= > 0 ) > The

[Python-3000] Brainstorming: Python Metaprogramming

2006-04-23 Thread Talin
facilitate additional metaprogramming in Python, with the tiniest possible changes to the language; Don't feel limited to just the discussion of quoting and variable references, but don't let it stray (please) beyond the parameters of what I've set. Thanks :) -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-3000] Brainstorming: Python Metaprogramming

2006-04-23 Thread Talin
Ivan Krstic fas.harvard.edu> writes: > Talin wrote: > > Anyway, I wanted to throw this out there for discussion. I'm mainly > > interested in a discussion of ways that we could facilitate > > additional metaprogramming in Python, with the tiniest possible changes

[Python-3000] Example implementation for string.format

2006-04-23 Thread Talin
nd (b) because something like this may go into the interpreter, and we don't want to add a dependency on re. Anyway, if you have an idea as to how things should behave differently - feel free to hack this, play with it, test ou

Re: [Python-3000] Stackable Blocks

2006-04-23 Thread Talin
llow you to do anything you can't do already, it just saves a few characters of typing. From what I have seen on these lists, proposals like that generally don't go over well. (Although if you can figure out a way to save a *whole lot* of typing, that might be a different story.) --

Re: [Python-3000] Open Issues for string.format PEP

2006-04-23 Thread Talin
Ian Bicking colorstudy.com> writes: > > Talin wrote: > > Here's a condensed list of the open issues that have been raised by people > > so far: > > > > (Well, edited somewhat - I'm including 'major' issues, not minor nits -- we &g

Re: [Python-3000] Open Issues for string.format PEP

2006-04-24 Thread Talin
Jim Jewett gmail.com> writes: > > On 4/22/06, Talin acm.org> wrote: > > Here's a condensed list of the open issues that have been raised by people > > so far: > > I'm not sure whether this was raised explicitly, but Ian at least > mentioned it:

Re: [Python-3000] Open Issues for string.format PEP

2006-04-24 Thread Talin
Ian Bicking colorstudy.com> writes: > > Talin wrote: > >>>Here's a condensed list of the open issues that have been raised by people > >>>so far: > >> > >>I'm not sure whether this was raised explicitly, but Ian at least > >>

Re: [Python-3000] Adding sorting to generator comprehension

2006-04-26 Thread Talin
special cases in the interpreter should take second or third place behind that goal, IMHO. The fact is that sorting happens a *lot*. Sorting with key= happens a lot. A large proportion of my list comprehensions involve sorting or ordering of one form or another, and the number of ugly sorted + key + lambda e

Re: [Python-3000] sets in P3K?

2006-04-26 Thread Talin
t { } would be equivalent to dict( ). This means using '=' instead of ':' and allowing key names to be bare words instead of quoted strings. So you could write: { name="Frodo", race="Hobbit" } instead of: { 'name':'Frodo',

Re: [Python-3000] Brainstorming: Python Metaprogramming

2006-04-26 Thread Talin
My gut tells me that there's something here worth looking into, but I haven't put my finger on it yet. (Isn't it interesting how often we programmers, who pride ourselves on our use of logic and reason, so often use intuition and hunches to solve problems?) -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-3000] Open Issues for string.format PEP

2006-04-26 Thread Talin
rmat( indirect_args=mydict ) 3) Bring back field expressions: "{0.name}".format( mydict ) (Perhaps the '.' operator can mean both '.' and '[]' depending on the type of the object.) -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Python-3000] PEP: Advanced String Formatted, Rev 2

2006-04-26 Thread Talin
I've submitted the most recent revisions of the string formatting PEP to the pep editor; In the mean time, you can read it here: http://www.viridia.org/python/doc/PEP_AdvancedStringFormatting2.txt -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list Python

Re: [Python-3000] sets in P3K?

2006-04-26 Thread Talin
aces: {1, 2, 3} A set with a single element is: {1,} In other words, we steal the idea from tuples - a trailing comma is used as a way to signal that this is a comma-separated list of one item. A set with no elements is: set() Alternatively, you could take the tuple idea one step fu

Re: [Python-3000] rough draft signature PEP

2006-04-27 Thread Talin
itrary preconditions to be added to specific parameters. 3) alternative dispatch decorator: Using the signature API, implement an alternative dispatch method. This could be something as simple as matching argument names - so if you call "func( a=3 )" it searches for a version

Re: [Python-3000] sets in P3K?

2006-04-27 Thread Talin
So instead of having to write: s = set() You can now write: s = \u03d1 :) :) :) :) :) :) -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.or

[Python-3000] Speeding up function calls

2006-04-29 Thread Talin
p function calling; What it does is open up a broad range of optimization possibilities. The simpler the recieving function's signature, the more room the compiler will have to be able to cull out unneeded parts of the argument assignment logic. -- Talin

[Python-3000] characters data type

2006-05-01 Thread Talin
Given that strings are going to be unicode, will there be a "characters" data type to go along with the "bytes" data type? And how is the bytes data type different from the existing array type? -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mail

[Python-3000] Requirements for a standard GUI library

2006-05-02 Thread Talin
#x27;ve seen some toolkits that only allowed UIs to be loaded from a file. Finally, I would say that anyone attempting to create a GUI toolkit should be familiar with a variety of the standard GUI APIs out there. I would suggest that familiarity with Qt, XUL, and either Java/Swing or .N

Re: [Python-3000] characters data type

2006-05-02 Thread Talin
Guido van Rossum python.org> writes: > On 5/1/06, Talin acm.org> wrote: > > Given that strings are going to be unicode, will there be a "characters" > > data type to go along with the "bytes" data type? > > No. I'm not sure what you mean b

Re: [Python-3000] characters data type

2006-05-02 Thread Talin
Guido van Rossum python.org> writes: > On 5/2/06, Talin acm.org> wrote: > > It appears that my question has been misunderstood by everyone; I'll try > > to phrase it better: > > > > The short version is: will there be a mutable character array typ

[Python-3000] PEP 3101 Open Issues

2006-05-03 Thread Talin
hould be fairly straightforward, and the only tricky part is re-implementing the behaviors of the current conversion specifiers. -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Python-3000] PEP 3102 Open Issues

2006-05-03 Thread Talin
'naked star' syntax anyway over the objections, and explain the rationale in the docs; 3) Come up with a separator character we can agree on 4) Come up with a brilliantly-devised alternative Thoughts? -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing lis

[Python-3000] What to do about IDLE?

2006-05-06 Thread Talin
If we feel that tree views (for a class hierarchy view) or toolbars with tooltips are imporant, then the candidates for the UI toolkit should be able to support that. -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/

Re: [Python-3000] back with more GUI planning in a few days...

2006-05-06 Thread Talin
well as make the mockup program available for download. At the same time, the web site should be reorganized. For example, the change list should not be on the front page. The project should probably have its own dedicated mailing list, or at least a wiki. Once that is done, you will hav

[Python-3000] PEP 3100 Comments

2006-05-06 Thread Talin
should stay a statement; If you want to add a functional equivalent, that's fine, but the simplicity of the current statement is a win. (Plus I like not having to type the parens; the less delimiters, the more readable the code IMHO.) -- Talin ___ Py

Re: [Python-3000] PEP 3100 Comments

2006-05-06 Thread Talin
Greg Ewing canterbury.ac.nz> writes: > Talin wrote: > > > 1) Getting rid of 'callable'. > > > > The reccomended replacement is "just call the object and catch the resulting > > exception", > > No, the recommended replacement sh

Re: [Python-3000] PEP 3100 Comments

2006-05-07 Thread Talin
his particular case could be done without 'callable', since you could test for string type, and assume callable otherwise. However, that's not always going to be the case.) -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http

Re: [Python-3000] PEP 3100 Comments

2006-05-07 Thread Talin
If we take that to its logical extreme, then we should be using Lisp, since there's only a single syntactical constructs to learn and explain. To my mind, the purpose of syntax is to act as a scaffolding to hold ideas in place in a way that allows us to easily recognize them. To that extent

Re: [Python-3000] PEP 3100 Comments

2006-05-07 Thread Talin
Thomas Wouters python.org> writes: > On 5/7/06, Talin acm.org> wrote: > > > How about instead of 'callable', an "isFunction' test to go alongwith > > 'isSequence' and 'isMapping'. (You aren't getting rid of those > > -

Re: [Python-3000] PEP 3100 Comments

2006-05-08 Thread Talin
Greg Ewing wrote: > Talin wrote: > >> How about instead of 'callable', an "isFunction' test to go along >> with 'isSequence' and 'isMapping'. (You aren't getting rid of those - >> I hope...?) > > > Yes, we are! And

Re: [Python-3000] PEP 3100 Comments

2006-05-08 Thread Talin
Jim Jewett gmail.com> writes: > On 5/8/06, Talin acm.org> wrote: > > Before we go to much further on this point, I want to get a sense of > > what exactly people are objecting to: > > > -- Are they saying that interface discovery is not important, or is > &

Re: [Python-3000] back with more GUI planning in a few days...

2006-05-09 Thread Talin
glass / Wait Sizing cursors: left/right, up/down, NE/SW, NW/SE I-beam cursor Hand / Drag cursor Standard Alerts: Notice Warning Error -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-3000] PEP 3100 Comments

2006-05-09 Thread Talin
Phillip J. Eby wrote: > At 06:19 AM, 9 May 2006 +0000, Talin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > In Haskell, interfaces are defined using "typeclasses". A typeclass is > basically a collection of generic functions. For example, you could > define a "sortable&

Re: [Python-3000] back with more GUI planning in a few days...

2006-05-09 Thread Talin
ct Directory >> Color Chooser >> Font Chooser >> >>Standard application dialogs: >> >> Caption + Single button (notify) >> Caption + Two buttons >> Caption + Text Entry + Two buttons >> >>Standard cursors: >> >> Arrow >

Re: [Python-3000] PEP 3100 Comments

2006-05-09 Thread Talin
eed to search for another solution. Actually, there's one other concern, which is - how efficient is this? Compared to, say, calling isSequence()? -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/list

Re: [Python-3000] PEP 3100 Comments

2006-05-09 Thread Talin
discuss this specific proposal. -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-3000] my take on "typeclasses"

2006-05-09 Thread Talin
Michael Chermside mcherm.com> writes: > Talin writes: > > Lets start a new top-level thread to discuss this specific > > proposal. > > tomer filiba writes: > > i'm sure my idea has flaws, but i'm very much pro-changing the type system. >[.

Re: [Python-3000] my take on "typeclasses"

2006-05-09 Thread Talin
ential* to be added, and 99% of the time that's all we really need to know. Duck typing isn't about wanting a duck, its about wanting an object that has waddling and quacking capabilities. -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list Python-3000@p

Re: [Python-3000] GUI -- an API, not a toolkit

2006-05-09 Thread Talin
ss you are using .Net, in which case you probably *want* to replace the color dialog :) -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-3000] GUI -- an API, not a toolkit

2006-05-09 Thread Talin
ve used almost two dozen different UI frameworks over the years, not counting the half dozen or so I've created for different employers, going all the way back to the days of the Amiga. [Anyone remember "Gadtools"? Or the Commodore Installer?]) -- Talin __

Re: [Python-3000] GUI -- an API, not a toolkit

2006-05-10 Thread Talin
I completely abdicated the role of designer - it was still my duty and my right to be the judge of what features should go in and what shouldn't. But if those judgements aren't informed by the needs of the people out there who would be using my work, then there's no justification

Re: [Python-3000] GUI events

2006-05-10 Thread Talin
to add special types of tooltips. In the current system I'm working with, I use it for visual animation effects. -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-3000] What do do about IDLE?

2006-05-10 Thread Talin
window would be extremely useful. So my thought is this: How hard would it be to make a curses-based debugger? This gives me what I want, without requiring a GUI toolkit be shipped with the standard libs. (Could that be a possible Summer of Code project?) -- Talin _

Re: [Python-3000] Requirements for a standard GUI library

2006-05-10 Thread Talin
k a mouse button; The rest of the time its all native code. -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-3000] my take on "typeclasses"

2006-05-10 Thread Talin
Guido van Rossum wrote: > [Talin] > >> Ordinarily I would agree with you on this point, and in fact I >> wouldn't even bring it up at all, except for two data points: >> >> 1) The proposal to include generic function dispatch >>in Python 3000, based

Re: [Python-3000] Questions on optional type annotations

2006-05-10 Thread Talin
't forgotten that you asked me to write up a PEP for a signature API in conjunction with the keyword arguments PEP. However, I don't yet feel that the ideas have gelled enough to do so yet -- or at least, I don't feel competent to come up with a definative solution. -- Talin __

Re: [Python-3000] GUI -- an API, not a toolkit

2006-05-10 Thread Talin
from porting it to any other platform, except that TrollTech won't help you do it :) -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-3000] my take on "typeclasses"

2006-05-11 Thread Talin
m pairs can be iterated over -- Test: hasattr( iteritems ) Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk wrote: > Talin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >>sequence( indexable ): >>-- an indexable in which the indexes are successive integers >>-- Test: isinstance( i

Re: [Python-3000] my take on "typeclasses"

2006-05-11 Thread Talin
tem__ method and make its decision based on that. Steven Bethard wrote: > On 5/11/06, Talin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>sequence( indexable ): >>-- an indexable in which the indexes are successive integers >>-- Test: isinstance( index_type, int ) > > &

Re: [Python-3000] Questions on optional type annotations

2006-05-11 Thread Talin
Nick Coghlan wrote: > Talin wrote: > >> I haven't forgotten that you asked me to write up a PEP for a >> signature API in conjunction with the keyword arguments PEP. However, >> I don't yet feel that the ideas have gelled enough to do so yet -- or >> at

Re: [Python-3000] my take on "typeclasses"

2006-05-11 Thread Talin
Guido van Rossum wrote: > On 5/11/06, Talin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> The word 'sequence' here doesn't mean an exclusive category. In a sense, >> all sequences are really mappings - they "map" a range of integers to >> values. > >

Re: [Python-3000] my take on "typeclasses"

2006-05-11 Thread Talin
ators had the overload. Testing for signatures, how about something like this: def function( f:concepts.function( concepts.iterable, int ) ) Which describes a function that takes an argument which is a function that takes an iterable and an int. -- Talin

Re: [Python-3000] my take on "typeclasses"

2006-05-11 Thread Talin
Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk wrote: > Talin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >> # Use as a function argument constraint >> @generic >> def flatten( x:concepts.iterable ): >> ... >> >> # Another overload >> @generic

Re: [Python-3000] my take on "typeclasses"

2006-05-11 Thread Talin
ll need to be able to handle ambiguity (at the very minimum, by reporting it as an error.) But "fuzzy logic" can be just as formal and well-defined as "crisp logic". -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Python-3000] Use case for generics

2006-05-13 Thread Talin
lf.w = w self.h = h def from_pos_size( self, position:Point, size:Size ): self.x, self.y = position.x, position.y self.w, self.h = size.w, size.h def from_ul_lr( self, ulpos:Point, lrpos:Point ): self.x, self.y = ulpos.x, lrpos.y self.w = lrpos.x

Re: [Python-3000] Type parameterization (was: Re: Type annotations: annotating generators)

2006-05-19 Thread Talin
n an int produces an int, and the second argument, a function which takes an int and produces an int. The function itself returns an int." Side note: I'm actually in favor of the idea of Python adding syntactical support for operators that have no "

Re: [Python-3000] Use cases for type annotations? (WAS: Type parameterization)

2006-05-19 Thread Talin
s for RPC calls. 7) Method to declare functions that communicate with statically-typed libraries or network protocols. 8) Optimized code generation for Python native-code compilers. -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected]

Re: [Python-3000] Type parameterization (was: Re: Type annotations: annotating generators)

2006-05-20 Thread Talin
Guido van Rossum wrote: > On 5/19/06, Talin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Side note: I'm actually in favor of the idea of Python adding >> syntactical support for operators that have no "built-in" definition. >> The use case would be for

Re: [Python-3000] Type parameterization (was: Re: Type annotations: annotating generators)

2006-05-20 Thread Talin
Guido van Rossum wrote: > On 5/20/06, Talin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> As far as how to pick the set of operators, well my notion on that was >> to come up with a list of general mathematical and logical concepts, and >> see if any would be useful as

[Python-3000] stdlib reorganization

2006-05-22 Thread Talin
The 3100 PEP has an item which states "Reorganize the standard library to not be as shallow". I presume that there are already numerous proposals for a new library organization; Is there a list of links that someone can post so that I could check them out? Thanks.

Re: [Python-3000] Fwd: proposal: disambiguating type

2006-05-22 Thread Talin
y it is. I think 'typeof' is a reasonably good name for the query function. (In fact, the first time I tried to use type( x ), I accidentally typed 'typeof( x )'. So this is one data point as to how intuitive the name is.) -- Talin _

Re: [Python-3000] Type annotations

2006-05-22 Thread Talin
t this point, I have to admit that I've completely lost track of the discussion (and I've read all the messages) - what exactly is it that we're trying to accomplish here? Would some kind person please do me a favor and summarize what the iss

Re: [Python-3000] stdlib reorganization

2006-05-22 Thread Talin
botparser, etc. xml.* - xml-related packages Example: xml.sax media.audio - audio packages media.image - image conversion packages rexec - rename to 'restrict' (Too much confusion with 'regex') python - python language services (compiler, parser, et

[Python-3000] PEP 3102 feedback

2006-05-23 Thread Talin
elf. (I'm also continuing to work on 3101, expect a new rev soon.) -- Talin ___ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-3000] PEP 3102 comments

2006-05-24 Thread Talin
tomer filiba wrote: > talin asked for comments, so > > def f(a, b, *, c, d) > > seems wrong to me. '*' can't be a token on its own, at least > that's the way i see it. opeators shouldn't stand for themselves. > just like the {/} (empty set) was rej

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