[issue8604] Adding an atomic FS write API

Charles-François Natali added the comment: > (Note that the Beaker version would need to be enhanced with the extra API > parameters from Victor's version, as well as updated to use the exclusive > open and close-on-exec flags) I think the API would be nicer if it was just a wrapper around the

[issue17992] test_asynchat hangs

Changes by Tshepang Lekhonkhobe : -- nosy: +tshepang ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mai

[issue17992] test_asynchat hangs

Changes by Tshepang Lekhonkhobe : -- nosy: +giampaolo.rodola, josiahcarlson, stutzbach ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mai

[issue17990] 2.7 builds can fail due to unconditional inclusion of include paths

Changes by Ned Deily : -- stage: patch review -> committed/rejected ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscri

[issue17990] 2.7 builds can fail due to unconditional inclusion of include paths

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[issue17990] 2.7 builds can fail due to unconditional inclusion of include paths

Benjamin Peterson added the comment: The 32-bit OSX binary was patched manually. -- components: -Cross-Build stage: committed/rejected -> patch review status: open -> closed ___ Python tracker

[issue17992] test_asynchat hangs

Changes by Carlos Nepomuceno : Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file30279/test_asynchat.txt ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mail

[issue17992] test_asynchat hangs

Changes by Carlos Nepomuceno : Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file30278/test_asynchat.txt ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mail

[issue17992] test_asynchat hangs

Changes by Carlos Nepomuceno : Removed file: http://bugs.python.org/file30277/test_asynchat.txt ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list ma

[issue17992] test_asynchat hangs

Changes by Carlos Nepomuceno : Removed file: http://bugs.python.org/file30278/test_asynchat.txt ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list ma

[issue17992] test_asynchat hangs

New submission from Carlos Nepomuceno: after running 'make' i entered 'make test' and it hanged on test_asynchat. stayed there for more than 1 hour. --- Python build finished, but the necessary bits to build these modules were not found: _bsddb _tkinter bsddb185 bz2

[issue17992] test_asynchat hangs

Changes by Brian Curtin : -- type: compile error -> behavior ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: ht

[issue15392] Create a unittest framework for IDLE

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: New patch: I renamed Itest to idle_test everywhere and re-ran tests; removed try-except from test_pathbrowser.py; and renamed @template to @README and rewrote. It applies cleanly to 3.4 on my system. The only problem applying to 2.7 is CallTips.py, which has d

[issue17991] ctypes.c_char gives a misleading error when passed a one-character unicode string

Changes by Steven Barker : -- components: +ctypes -Library (Lib) ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe:

[issue17991] ctypes.c_char gives a misleading error when passed a one-character unicode string

New submission from Steven Barker: While investigating a Stack Overflow question (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16484764/multiprocessing-value-clear-syntax) I came across a misleading error message from the multiprocessing.Value constructor: >>> import multiprocessing >>> my_char = "x" >

[issue17972] inspect module docs omits many functions

xiaobing jiang added the comment: when I read the memory_profiler source code, I find it using inspect.getblock(). so I check the doc, but can't find the function's doc. these functions are found not in doc. I want to known which function should in doc or not? in inspect module has no __all__

[issue17990] 2.7 builds can fail due to unconditional inclusion of include paths

Ned Deily added the comment: Applied to 2.7 branch. Leaving the issue open for release manager action for 2.7.5. -- components: +Cross-Build resolution: -> fixed stage: patch review -> committed/rejected ___ Python tracker

[issue17990] 2.7 builds can fail due to unconditional inclusion of include paths

Roundup Robot added the comment: New changeset cd577c328886 by Ned Deily in branch '2.7': Issue #17990: Only modify include and library search paths when cross-compiling. http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/cd577c328886 -- nosy: +python-dev ___ Python tr

[issue8604] Adding an atomic FS write API

Nick Coghlan added the comment: (Note that the Beaker version would need to be enhanced with the extra API parameters from Victor's version, as well as updated to use the exclusive open and close-on-exec flags) -- ___ Python tracker

[issue8604] Adding an atomic FS write API

Nick Coghlan added the comment: We have one of these in Beaker (we didn't need to wait for os.replace, since Beaker only runs on Linux): http://git.beaker-project.org/cgit/beaker/tree/Common/bkr/common/helpers.py?h=develop#n90 It turns out to be beneficial to separate the three operations in o

[issue8604] Adding an atomic FS write API

STINNER Victor added the comment: > Here's the part of the code that does the open/close part: > http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~exabyte/blackherd/async-refactor/view/61/blackherd/misc.py#L498 This code contains a bug: hasattr('os', 'fsync') is never True :-) This part is interesting: # f

[issue11877] Change os.fsync() to support physical backing store syncs

STINNER Victor added the comment: What is the status of this issue? This issue is interesting in the implementation of #8604 (add shutil.atomic_write()). -- ___ Python tracker _

[issue8604] Adding an atomic FS write API

STINNER Victor added the comment: atomic_write.patch calls os.replace(src, dst) whereas the src file is open. It works on Linux, but it sounds a little bit strange to me and may fail on other platforms. Here is another patch (atomic_write_mkstemp.patch) using tempfile.mkstemp() instead of tem

[issue8604] Adding an atomic FS write API

STINNER Victor added the comment: "I prefer to use tempfile.NamedTemporaryFile because it is portable and well tested. It also uses a random suffix. On Windows, the O_TEMPORARY flag is passed to os.open(), ..." Oh, and it sets also the close-on-exec safe, which is also more secure. --

[issue17990] 2.7 builds can fail due to unconditional inclusion of include paths

Matthias Klose added the comment: I don't see how this would break the cross builds, so please go ahead with this change. -- ___ Python tracker ___ _

[issue17990] 2.7 builds can fail due to unconditional inclusion of include paths

Changes by Ned Deily : -- keywords: +patch Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file30274/issue17990.patch ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Py

[issue17990] 2.7 builds can fail due to unconditional inclusion of include paths

New submission from Ned Deily: For Issue17086, 8ee6d96a1019 backported some cross-build patches to the 2.7 branch. The changes to setup.py detect_modules differ in the backport from those in default. In particular, in default, changes to the library and include directory lists used to build e

[issue17981] SysLogHandler closes connection before using it

Josh Purvis added the comment: Ironically, I ran into this same exact issue today, and I have investigated the `files_preserve` param, with no luck. I'm not too familiar with the internals here, but from what I can tell it works with FileHandler, but not the SysLogHandler. If you try to add

[issue8604] Adding an atomic FS write API

STINNER Victor added the comment: + # Flush Python buffers to system buffers + fileobj.flush() + + if hasattr(os, 'fsync'): + # Flush system buffers to disk + fd = fileobj.fileno() + os.fsync(fd) A fsync=True paramater may be added if calling os.fs

[issue8604] Adding an atomic FS write API

STINNER Victor added the comment: Here is a patch based on the new os.replace() function. I only tested the patch on Linux. My patch must be tested on Windows, I don't know what happens when the file object is closed when the NamedTemporaryFile.delete attribute is set to False. Does close() r

[issue13146] Writing a pyc file is not atomic

Changes by Christian Heimes : -- nosy: +christian.heimes ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http:/

[issue17981] SysLogHandler closes connection before using it

Vinay Sajip added the comment: Isn't this a case of handles being closed in the child after a fork, by the daemon module? Have you investigated the files_preserve option in DaemonContext? -- resolution: -> invalid status: open -> pending ___ Python

[issue17989] ElementTree.Element broken attribute setting

New submission from Jakub Wilk: Setting attributes on ElementTree.Element objects is broken: it succeeds without exception, but then the following statement fails with AttributeError (unless that statement sets an Element's attribute too): $ python3.3 test-element-setattr.py Hello world!Trace

[issue17988] ElementTree.Element != ElementTree._ElementInterface

Changes by Ezio Melotti : -- nosy: +eli.bendersky stage: -> patch review type: -> behavior versions: +Python 3.4 ___ Python tracker ___

[issue17985] multiprocessing Queue.qsize() and Queue.empty() with different results

Richard Oudkerk added the comment: On 15/05/2013 11:33pm, Andre Dias wrote: > But the example program has no races, no threads, nothing. > empty() is returning TRUE even though qsize() is >0 (which actually is) > And it happens almost every time I run that small example. > I had read the module d

[issue17988] ElementTree.Element != ElementTree._ElementInterface

Jakub Wilk added the comment: The attached (untested) patch should fix the bug. -- keywords: +patch Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file30271/elementinterface.diff ___ Python tracker

[issue17988] ElementTree.Element != ElementTree._ElementInterface

New submission from Jakub Wilk: The xml.etree.ElementTree module provides _Element and _ElementInterface as compatibility aliases for Element. However, in Python 3.3 if the _elementtree module is importable, these classes are not identical: Element is a C implementation, and _Element/_ElementI

[issue17986] Alternative async subprocesses (pep 3145)

Changes by Antoine Pitrou : -- nosy: +neologix ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.pyth

[issue17953] sys.modules cannot be reassigned

Brett Cannon added the comment: Sounds good to me. -- ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://ma

[issue17985] multiprocessing Queue.qsize() and Queue.empty() with different results

Andre Dias added the comment: RIchard, But the example program has no races, no threads, nothing. empty() is returning TRUE even though qsize() is >0 (which actually is) And it happens almost every time I run that small example. I had read the module doc, and I know its an unreliable method, but

[issue17962] Broken OpenSSL version in Windows builds

Martin v. Löwis added the comment: I have now updated the code. Yogesh: It is somewhat more that just committing the source; the assembler files need to be generated. The objective is to not require Perl on the build machines. -- status: open -> closed ___

[issue17985] multiprocessing Queue.qsize() and Queue.empty() with different results

Richard Oudkerk added the comment: On 15/05/2013 10:25pm, Andre Dias wrote: > But qsize() is working. what is not working is empty() empty() returns False when there is data in the underlying pipe. But the data does not enter the pipe until a background thread has written it to the pipe. Thi

[issue17979] Cannot build 2.7 with --enable-unicode=no

Amaury Forgeot d'Arc added the comment: Can't build here with after "./configure --disable-unicode". Serhiy, which OS did you try? I'm running Debian 64bit, with gcc 4.6.3 -- ___ Python tracker

[issue15392] Create a unittest framework for IDLE

Nick Coghlan added the comment: Terry, the unittest and regrtest command lines are *built* for TDD - you rely on test discovery and selection to run the appropriate tests for what you're working on. However, the point about F5 in IDLE is well made, and a reasonable rationale for ensuring at leas

[issue17953] sys.modules cannot be reassigned

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: "sys.modules This is a dictionary that maps module names to modules which have already been loaded. This can be manipulated to force reloading of modules and other tricks." How about adding at the end "However, replacing or clearing it may cause Python to

[issue17981] SysLogHandler closes connection before using it

Changes by Josh Purvis : -- nosy: +Josh.Purvis ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.pyth

[issue17965] argparse does not dest.replace('-', '_') for positionals

Changes by Terry J. Reedy : -- nosy: +bethard ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.pytho

[issue17987] test.support.captured_stderr, captured_stdin not documented

New submission from Fred L. Drake, Jr.: The captured_stderr and captured_stdin context managers aren't documented, and should be. -- assignee: docs@python components: Documentation keywords: easy messages: 189311 nosy: docs@python, fdrake priority: normal severity: normal stage: needs p

[issue17967] urllib2.open failed to access a url when a perent directory of the url is permission denied

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: Did you run the urllib test module after your code change? Have you tried 3.3? -- nosy: +orsenthil, terry.reedy stage: -> test needed ___ Python tracker __

[issue17985] multiprocessing Queue.qsize() and Queue.empty() with different results

Andre Dias added the comment: But qsize() is working. what is not working is empty() 2013/5/15 Richard Oudkerk > > Richard Oudkerk added the comment: > > >From the docs: > > qsize() > Return the approximate size of the queue. Because of > multithreading/multiprocessing semantics, this

[issue17972] inspect module docs omits many functions

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: I do not know what you mean by 'leak docs' so I changed the title to something that makes more sense. It is possible that these functions are considered private to the module, but then their names should be preceded by '_', or else there should be an '__all__'

[issue17971] Weird interaction between Komodo Python debugger C module & Python 3

Benjamin Peterson added the comment: If you ever find a Python bug, feel free to reopen. -- resolution: -> invalid status: open -> closed ___ Python tracker ___

[issue17983] global __class__ statement in class declaration

Roundup Robot added the comment: New changeset cd9141a4f999 by Benjamin Peterson in branch '3.3': complain about "global __class__" in a class body (closes #17983) http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/cd9141a4f999 -- nosy: +python-dev resolution: -> fixed stage: -> committed/rejected statu

[issue17985] multiprocessing Queue.qsize() and Queue.empty() with different results

Richard Oudkerk added the comment: >From the docs: qsize() Return the approximate size of the queue. Because of multithreading/multiprocessing semantics, this number is not reliable. Adding a short sleep before calling qsize() and empty() should make things appear to work. But re

[issue17986] Alternative async subprocesses (pep 3145)

New submission from Richard Oudkerk: In the attached file is an experimental implementation of an AsyncPopen class. It should work for Python 3.3, 3.4 on Unix and Windows. Unlike http://code.google.com/p/subprocdev (see #1191964) this does not depend on using time.sleep() and polling. It

[issue17981] SysLogHandler closes connection before using it

Changes by Terry J. Reedy : -- nosy: +vinay.sajip ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.p

[issue17982] Syntax Error in IDLE3 not in IDLE

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: Please ask questions like this on python-list, mirrored as newsgroup gmane.comp.python.general or on other forums. This tracker is for patching Python itself, not usage questions. -- nosy: +terry.reedy resolution: -> invalid status: open -> closed __

[issue17985] multiprocessing Queue.qsize() and Queue.empty() with different results

New submission from Andre Dias: The problem is that Queue.empty() is True even if Queue.qsize()>0! #!/usr/bin/python from multiprocessing import Queue numbers=Queue() for i in range (0,10): numbers.put(i) if numbers.qsize()>0 and numbers.empty(): print "BUG?!" -- components:

[issue17971] Weird interaction between Komodo Python debugger C module & Python 3

Eric Promislow added the comment: I found a workaround in our debugger code, so you can lower the priority on this, or even mark it "Wontfix", although I still think the frame stack is getting messed up. One thing about our debugger, it essentially runs all the Python code in a big exec statem

[issue12370] Use of super overwrites use of __class__ in class namespace

Benjamin Peterson added the comment: Finally killed this one properly. -- resolution: -> fixed status: open -> closed ___ Python tracker ___

[issue12370] Use of super overwrites use of __class__ in class namespace

Roundup Robot added the comment: New changeset 3d858f1eef54 by Benjamin Peterson in branch 'default': hide the __class__ closure from the class body (#12370) http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/3d858f1eef54 -- ___ Python tracker

[issue17984] io and _pyio modules require the _io module

Alex Gaynor added the comment: I don't see why we need some C level _fileio, the os module has everythign we need. -- nosy: +alex ___ Python tracker ___

[issue17984] io and _pyio modules require the _io module

Benjamin Peterson added the comment: Patches welcome, of course! -- ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscri

[issue17984] io and _pyio modules require the _io module

Benjamin Peterson added the comment: Well, we at least need some C level _fileio. -- ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list maili

[issue17984] io and _pyio modules require the _io module

New submission from Serhiy Storchaka: io and _pyio modules don't usable without the _io module. In particular when 2.7 build without unicode. Why we have a Python implementation if it can't be used as a fallback when a C implementation is not available? -- components: IO messages: 1892

[issue8604] Adding an atomic FS write API

Changes by Barry A. Warsaw : -- nosy: +barry ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.

[issue17974] Migrate unittest to argparse

Serhiy Storchaka added the comment: Here is other variant of patch, even less horrible. However it introduces some incompatibility: 1. Discovery mode now works only when module==None (i.e. from "-m unittest"). It is only case for which it was documented. 2. Previously unittest.main(failfast=F

[issue13146] Writing a pyc file is not atomic

Changes by Barry A. Warsaw : -- nosy: +barry ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.python

[issue17983] global __class__ statement in class declaration

Changes by Benjamin Peterson : -- assignee: -> benjamin.peterson nosy: +benjamin.peterson ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list

[issue17983] global __class__ statement in class declaration

New submission from Dwight Guth: The following python program causes cpython to crash: class A: global __class__ def a(self): super() I get the following output on the console: bug.py:2: SyntaxWarning: name '__class__' is assigned to before global declaration global __class__ lookup

[issue16748] Make CPython test package discoverable

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: Chris: >>> import unittest as u; u.main("test.test_xxx") Ezio: I think that's the last nail in the coffin of test_main. Terry, do you agree? Belated answer: now that I use and understand the idiom, yes. Chris: The load_tests protocol (2.7, 3.2+) seems like the

[issue17980] ssl.match_hostname() trips over crafted wildcard names

Antoine Pitrou added the comment: Does the RFC say anything about this? How much wildcards are necessary to take up a significant amount of CPU time? -- nosy: +pitrou ___ Python tracker ___

[issue15392] Create a unittest framework for IDLE

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: Tests have at least two very different purposes. One is test-driven development of code (and tests) by developers. The other is regression detection by buildbots. "if __name__" in code modules, in addition to test modules, makes the first much easier. First, t

[issue17982] Syntax Error in IDLE3 not in IDLE

Ned Batchelder added the comment: Python 3 has no print statement, it has a print function, so you need: print("Hello, world!") -- nosy: +nedbat ___ Python tracker ___ _

[issue17982] Syntax Error in IDLE3 not in IDLE

New submission from Hugh Littlejohn: New to Python, acquired Raspberry PI. Upgraded and now have IDLE and IDLE3. Python 3.2.3 (default, Mar 1 2013, 11:53:50) (GNU 4.6.3] on Linux2 First task, New Window to create "Hello, World!" Using IDLE3, created file helloworld.py Using Run/ Check Module - f

[issue17754] test_ctypes assumes LANG=C LC_ALL=C

Matthias Klose added the comment: fixed in 2.7, 3.3 and trunk -- resolution: -> fixed stage: needs patch -> committed/rejected status: open -> closed ___ Python tracker ___

[issue17754] test_ctypes assumes LANG=C LC_ALL=C

Roundup Robot added the comment: New changeset d6a43a99aea3 by doko in branch '3.3': - Issue #17754: Make ctypes.util.find_library() independent of the locale. http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/d6a43a99aea3 New changeset 9a44f12df844 by doko in branch 'default': - Issue #17754: Make ctypes.util.f

[issue15267] tempfile.TemporaryFile and httplib incompatibility

Геннадий Егоров added the comment: i think it is not good, len(fd) must raise AttributeError, not TypeError -- nosy: +Геннадий.Егоров ___ Python tracker ___ _

[issue15392] Create a unittest framework for IDLE

Ezio Melotti added the comment: Having idle_test under idlelib is fine with me if it makes your life easier. > 3. Many modules have more or useless 'sanity-check' tests run > with the 'if __name__' mechanism. I think *all* of these should > be replaced with unittest.main(xxx, verbosity=2, exit=F

[issue17981] SysLogHandler closes connection before using it

New submission from Julien Palard: I have a script that close its socket to /dev/log immediatly before using it, causing it to fail, here is the code : {{{ #!/usr/bin/env python # -*- coding: utf-8 -*- import logging import logging.handlers import daemon from daemon.pidlockfile import PIDLockFil

[issue17754] test_ctypes assumes LANG=C LC_ALL=C

Roundup Robot added the comment: New changeset 4f594f9b296a by doko in branch '2.7': - Issue #17754: Make ctypes.util.find_library() independent of the locale. http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/4f594f9b296a -- nosy: +python-dev ___ Python tracker

[issue17976] file.write doesn't raise IOError when it should

Jaakko Moisio added the comment: > I tried to reply to the review of my last patch but this tracker > software itself crashed. Is there anyone who would be interested in > the traceback? Never mind. I found the meta tracker and posted my traceback there. --

[issue17980] ssl.match_hostname() trips over crafted wildcard names

New submission from Florian Weimer: If the name in the certificate contains many "*" characters, matching the compiled regular expression against the host name can take a very long time. Certificate validation happens before host name checking, so I think this is a minor issue only because it

[issue17974] Migrate unittest to argparse

Michael Foord added the comment: Discovery from a module importing main doesn't make sense (although from a *script* importing main it does). So long as "python -m unittest -v" continues to launch discovery, and the "positional argument" form of discovery still works, then the new patch looks

[issue17979] Cannot build 2.7 with --enable-unicode=no

Changes by Ezio Melotti : -- nosy: +ezio.melotti type: -> behavior ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscri

[issue17976] file.write doesn't raise IOError when it should

Jaakko Moisio added the comment: I tried to reply to the review of my last patch but this tracker software itself crashed. Is there anyone who would be interested in the traceback? Anyway, I'll reply here. On 2013/05/15 08:37:29, Charles-François Natali wrote: > http://bugs.python.org/review/1

[issue17976] file.write doesn't raise IOError when it should

Changes by Jaakko Moisio : Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file30266/fileobject-fix4.patch ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mail

[issue17979] Cannot build 2.7 with --enable-unicode=no

Serhiy Storchaka added the comment: I can't reproduce this when build with --disable-unicode. -- ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bug

[issue15392] Create a unittest framework for IDLE

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: Thanks Nick. Tomorrow I should change the directory name, delete try-except, commit, and move onward on the path laid out. -- ___ Python tracker __

[issue15392] Create a unittest framework for IDLE

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: For future reference, there is an idle specific issue that I do not think has been mentioned yet. Idle can run in one process, but the default mode now, and perhaps only mode sometime in the future, is two processes communicating through a socket. Testing two

[issue15392] Create a unittest framework for IDLE

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: Ezio, thank you for the response. 1. I care more about where the directory of tests is than what it is called. 'idle_test' or 'idletest' or whatever would be fine. Lets make that the last bikeshed item ;-). 2. I looked as #10572. It was originally about movin

[issue17979] Cannot build 2.7 with --enable-unicode=no

Marc-Andre Lemburg added the comment: Please note that the official way to build Python without Unicode support is (see http://bugs.python.org/issue445762): ./configure --disable-unicode See http://bugs.python.org/issue8767 for the most recent set of fixes that were supplied to make it work a

[issue17978] Python crashes if Py_Initialize/Py_Finalize are called multiple times

Marc-Andre Lemburg added the comment: On 15.05.2013 01:28, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc wrote: > > Amaury Forgeot d'Arc added the comment: > > The official way to build without unicode is > ./configure --enable-unicode=no > But see issue17979. The official way to build without Unicode is: ./configu

[issue15392] Create a unittest framework for IDLE

Nick Coghlan added the comment: Just a quick note on the directory naming: idlelib/idle_test sounds like a good option to me. Putting it under idlelib makes it easy for distros to carve it out along with the rest of Idle, as well as making it clear that it falls under the purview of PEP 434