[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Zachary Ware added the comment: You're both welcome :) -- ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: https

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Andy Maier added the comment: > Andy: in future, please use the 'review' link to post reviews,... Will do ... I just now discovered the "Start Review" link (I'm new here, so thanks for telling me...) Andy -- ___ Python tracker

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Ezio Melotti added the comment: Thanks for backporting this! -- ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe:

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Zachary Ware added the comment: Thanks for the reviews, Ezio and Andy. Committed with most of your points addressed, though I did leave out the link to `long` since I could not come up with a good wording for adding it, and `long` is easily findable from `int`. Also, the link for 'complex nu

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Roundup Robot added the comment: New changeset 438da6ae38fa by Zachary Ware in branch '2.7': Issue #14097: Backport 796d1371605d and subsequent changes. http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/438da6ae38fa -- ___ Python tracker

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Andy Maier added the comment: Zach, I reviewed your 2.7 backport, including a comparison with the latest 3.x patch. Comments on the 2.7 backport: 1. In "3.1.1 Numbers", on "If both operands are ints,": The "ints" is a link labeled "int" followed by a normal font "s". I think it would be bette

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Zachary Ware added the comment: How's this for a 2.7 backport? The least direct part of the backport is the section on division; I pretty much had to completely rewrite the paragraph in 2.x terms and I'm not certain that I took the best approach. -- stage: commit review -> patch revie

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Changes by Zachary Ware : -- nosy: +zach.ware ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: https://mail.pyth

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Ezio Melotti added the comment: This still needs to be backported to 2.7. There's also a typo reported in #18403 that should be fixed before the backport. -- assignee: docs@python -> ezio.melotti ___ Python tracker

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Roundup Robot added the comment: New changeset 796d1371605d by Ezio Melotti in branch '3.3': #14097: improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial. http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/796d1371605d New changeset 42dda22a6f8c by Ezio Melotti in branch 'default': #14097: merge with 3.3. http://hg.py

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: > Is it OK if I add it back to the next page, > when I explain object identity? Yes. That would work. -- ___ Python tracker ___ __

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Ezio Melotti added the comment: Is it OK if I add it back to the next page, when I explain object identity? -- ___ Python tracker ___

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: Please add the "x = y = z = 0" example back. It doesn't improve the tutorial to dumb it down or to leave out basic knowledge. You may not like the feature but it is a long standing part of the core language. -- ___

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Ezio Melotti added the comment: > Please restore the section "A value can be assigned to several > variables simultaneously". The reason for removing it are: * generally it's not really useful/used IMHO; * it has potentially confusing side effects (e.g. x = y = 0 is the same as x = 0; y = 0,

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: Please restore the section "A value can be assigned to several variables simultaneously". This is easy to teach in this context and there's no other good place to put it. Also, I'm unclear why you took out the Mark Lemburg's section on Unicode. --

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Ezio Melotti added the comment: Here is an updated patch. -- Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file30312/issue14097-3.diff ___ Python tracker ___ ___

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Changes by Ezio Melotti : -- nosy: +akuchling ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.pytho

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

R. David Murray added the comment: Review comments added. -- nosy: +r.david.murray ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Ezio Melotti added the comment: If there aren't any comments I will commit this soon. -- stage: patch review -> commit review ___ Python tracker ___ _

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Ezio Melotti added the comment: Attached a new patch that should address all the points except the last example with Fibonacci. -- stage: needs patch -> patch review versions: -Python 3.2 Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file29649/issue14097-2.diff __

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Ezio Melotti added the comment: I started working on this. Attached there's a work in progress patch with changes done on the first half of the tutorial. The changes are not definitive, and I'm trying to get some early feedback on rietveld before moving on the second half. -- Added fi

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Changes by Ezio Melotti : -- nosy: +chris.jerdonek versions: +Python 3.4 ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsu

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Changes by Eli Bendersky : -- nosy: -eli.bendersky ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Georg Brandl added the comment: Well, I guess some people will always be blind to the finer distinctions in the scientific meaning of words... but that doesn't mean we should apply them where they don't. -- nosy: +georg.brandl ___ Python tracker

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: I think we should feel free to change 'variable' to 'name', especially in the Intro, if it can be done gracefully in context. In my experience with python-list, the former seems a source of confusion for Python newbies. I try to avoid it when writing about Py

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: In English, calling someone or something 'degenerate' is a major insult. In means that x is not really human or what it seems or what it was. I remember being initially startled or puzzled at the mathematical usage, but it actually is similar, just without th

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Eli Bendersky added the comment: Regarding the use of the name "variable", could it be replaced by just "name" ? That might make sense since the error for undefined "names" is usually NameError. However, note that the current documentation has a /huge/ amount of mentions for "variable", so we

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Ezio Melotti added the comment: > Be careful with whitespace changes. Here I agree with you and disagree with the PEP 8 (specifically where it says that "hypot2 = x*x + y*y" and "c = (a+b) * (a-b)" are "wrong"). In - >>> 3+1j*3 + >>> 3 + 1j * 3 I intentionally added spaces around all the

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Éric Araujo added the comment: Be careful with whitespace changes. Sometimes not putting whitespace around an operator helps to see the grouping of operations, for example. The important thing is “Readability counts”, not “Always put whitespace around operators”. A huge part of understandi

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Eli Bendersky added the comment: Comments on some of the suggestions: 1) Agreed 2) Can be combined with (3), I think. Just show the number example with the explanatory comments. They speak for themselves. No need for the SPAM and STRING assignments. 5) Yep. Can be replaced by "A value can be

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Eli Bendersky added the comment: Ezio, your fix for 8 is definitely good. Space makes it cleaner, as well as compliant to PEP 8, which explicitly recommends to surround operators with spaces. Note, however, that this should be applied in other places as well, not only the complex number samp

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Changes by Tshepang Lekhonkhobe : -- nosy: +tshepang ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mai

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: Thanks. -- ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe: http://mail.py

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Ezio Melotti added the comment: The attached patch addresses 8) -- you might want to use it as a starting point (that's what I was going to fix before deciding to do a full review of the page). -- assignee: rhettinger -> docs@python keywords: +patch Added file: http://bugs.python.org/

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: some of theses are great suggestions. I'll do an update shortly. -- assignee: docs@python -> rhettinger nosy: +rhettinger ___ Python tracker __

[issue14097] Improve the "introduction" page of the tutorial

New submission from Ezio Melotti : I was reading the "introduction" page of the tutorial [0], and noticed a few things that could be improved: 1) the first paragraph is a bit confusing, showing a simple example and explaining what the >>> is would be better; 2) comments can be introduced late