[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Ram Rachum added the comment: Thanks for the information about timing, Stefan and Josh. That is good to know regardless of this ticket :) -- ___ Python tracker ___ _

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Josh Rosenberg added the comment: Looking at a single lookup performed over and over isn't going to get you a very good benchmark. If your keys are constantly reused, most of the losses won't show themselves. A more fair comparison I've used before is the difference between using the bytes obj

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Stefan Behnel added the comment: "you'd be surprised how much cheaper indexing a sequence is relative to dictionary access" This is a bit off-topic (and I realise that this ticket is closed now), but the difference isn't really all that large: $ python3.4 -m timeit -s 'seq = list(range(1000))

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Ezio Melotti added the comment: The feature request sounds reasonable to me, unless someone proves that there are major (performance) issues. However, since this has already been reported in #18162, I'm going to close it as a duplicate. @Raymond > The IndexError exception is commonly used for

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Ram Rachum added the comment: obably Serhiy: Unfortunately I don't program in C, so I can't implement this. -- ___ Python tracker ___

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Berker Peksag added the comment: See also issue 18162. -- nosy: +berker.peksag ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing lis

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Serhiy Storchaka added the comment: Ram, do you want to provide a patch and benchmarks? -- nosy: +serhiy.storchaka ___ Python tracker ___

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Éric Araujo added the comment: Mark, could you please not phrase your messages as if you were speaking for the whole core team, and be more friendly with other contributors (or reply less)? -- nosy: +eric.araujo ___ Python tracker

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: I have several times found exception messages to be under-informative, and I am pretty sure this is one of them. The obvious use case is so I don't have to insert a print statement, which I can only do if the error is in Python code, to get the essential info

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Ram Rachum added the comment: David, as a more generalized solution: Do you think it's possible to make some kind of mechanism in Python that would change the way that an exception is constructed based on whether it's used for control flow or not? I know that it's a bit far-fetched, but if we

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

R. David Murray added the comment: The development team is not monolithic, and we are all people, with differing opinions (and Mark is Mark). As has been pointed out, there is people-load for development and maintenance associated with any change, so a mature project has a natural tendency to

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Ram Rachum added the comment: Josh, I agree with most of what you're saying. (Except the tips about debugging are not helpful, the point is to get the information as quickly as possible without having to make code modifications if possible.) I can totally understand a reaction of "Your idea is

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Josh Rosenberg added the comment: As I said, the main reason is that every feature has to start at minus 100 points. It's not that your idea is bad, it's that it has to be sufficiently good to warrant the risks that come with any code churn, no matter how small. "Simple and obvious" does not m

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Mark Lawrence added the comment: Ram I won't be making any more comments as it's quite clear to me that you have no empathy at all with the core devs. -- ___ Python tracker ___

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Ram Rachum added the comment: Mark, again I'm finding myself saying things that are obvious to all of us: You can figure out that "tuple index out of range" means you asked for an item bigger than the size of the tuple, but it might be very helpful for debugging to say the number of item that

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Mark Lawrence added the comment: If a programmer can't work out from "IndexError: tuple index out of range" what is going on they should give up programming. Personally I'd close this now with resolution "complete waste of core dev time". -- nosy: +BreamoreBoy type: behavior -> enhanc

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Ram Rachum added the comment: Josh... The reason I gave all these examples of where Python gives detailed error messages, is not so you'd explain the obvious reason, which is that it makes it easier to debug, figure out what's wrong with your program, and fix it. The reason I gave these exampl

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Josh Rosenberg added the comment: TypeError also should be more specific because it can occur for a multitude of reasons; along with stuff like AttributeError, it's one of those exceptions that could arise from multiple causes on a single line of code, none of them obvious. For the specific ca

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Ram Rachum added the comment: Raymond: I do take your point about performance, and I understand that if this results in a performance problem, then that's a good argument to not include this feature. But I'm baffled as to why you're asking me regarding this feature "Why? Is there any known us

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: Why? Is there any known use case? The IndexError exception is commonly used for control flow. Slowing down the instantiation to add an index that no one really needs would be a waste. This exception has been around for 20+ years -- if they were an actua

[issue21911] "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index and tuple length

New submission from Ram Rachum: Ditto for lists and any other place this could be applicable. -- components: Interpreter Core messages: 222168 nosy: cool-RR priority: normal severity: normal status: open title: "IndexError: tuple index out of range" should include the requested index an