[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: I will link to an IDLE shell followup issue later. Discussions about other IDLE issues should be on pre-existing issues (use the tracker search with Components: IDLE), new issues, or without an issue, on the idle-dev list. -- resolution: -> fixed

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: > Other bug reports and feature requests that matter to us don't appear to be > getting any traction: I'll start going through those, and see if I can fix some of the bugs on that list. A few notes: > Need an option to run the install-certificates script Are

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: > Lastly, for live demos in presentations, it is desirable to have a clear > screen, free of distracting artifacts. The sidebar is such an artifact -- > you would never see such a thing in a book or slide presentation. Also, for > live demos, large fonts are

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: > Another desirable feature is the ability to cut and paste snippets into > docstrings. This is essential not just for doctest, but even for untested > examples in docstrings. > Those examples, need to be recognizable to humans as interactive sessions > with

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: For a wider context, besides the default REPL, I also consider two other leading REPLs: ipython and Jupyter notebooks. They both also have clear separation of outputs from inputs, though in different ways than the standard REPL. ipython retains similar

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: > For teaching purposes in live demos, it is essential to have a clear visual > distinction between the inputs and outputs: > > >>> beatles = ['john', 'paul', 'ringo', 'george'] > >>> [name.capitalize() for name in beatles] > ['John', 'Paul', 'Ringo', 'George'] >

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: Yes, lets discuss actual problems and various possible solutions. Raymond's example is incomplete as it omits multiline statements, which is where the real problems lie and the reason a fix was sorely needed. This has been more or less agreed on since at

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: Rather than request a specific solution, I'll state what new problems need to be solved. For teaching purposes in live demos, it is essential to have a clear visual distinction between the inputs and outputs: >>> beatles = ['john', 'paul', 'ringo',

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: Upon reading Terry's previous comments here more carefully, it's clear that he will be adding an option to switch between this mode and an alternate mode with prompts on separate lines in the main text widget. The latter will be much more similar to the

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: > Is it possible to add a Settings option under the General tab to switch > between the sidebar mode and traditional mode? Raymond, that should be possible, and possibly rather easily. I'll take a look at adding this option. --

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: As described above in msg392163, the other fix is to put the prompt on a line by itself. I hoped to get a switch between fixes into b1 but ran out of time and energy. I intend to have in in the next, along with other improvements. --

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: Is it possible to add a Settings option under the General tab to switch between the sidebar mode and traditional mode? -- ___ Python tracker

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: New changeset b43cc31a270d0dacbc69e35d6c6fbdb5edd7e711 by Tal Einat in branch 'master': bpo-37903: IDLE: add shell sidebar mouse interactions (GH-25708) https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/b43cc31a270d0dacbc69e35d6c6fbdb5edd7e711 --

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Guido van Rossum added the comment: Also, presumably most users don’t right click and look for options. They just drag a selection and hit ^C (or cmd-C).-- --Guido (mobile) -- ___ Python tracker

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: The "copy only code" feature has been removed for now. It can't currently be properly implemented, due to code input not being marked different than user input in between REPL commands, e.g. in response to an input() call. With that, the PR is currently free of

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: There is also a 'copy only code' option. Like 'copy', these two new options require a selection. They appear on the context menu when right-clicking either on the sidebar or within the selection. Like the format region commands, these new options operate

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: To those following, please note that the latest PR (GH-25708) adds a "Copy with prompts" context-menu option, to make copying interactive sessions for doc-tests and code examples convenient. -- ___ Python tracker

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Change by Tal Einat : -- pull_requests: +24396 pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/25708 ___ Python tracker ___

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: New changeset 15d386185659683fc044ccaa300aa8cd7d49cc1a by Tal Einat in branch 'master': bpo-37903: IDLE: Shell sidebar with prompts (GH-22682) https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/15d386185659683fc044ccaa300aa8cd7d49cc1a --

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Change by Terry J. Reedy : -- versions: -Python 3.8, Python 3.9 ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: The base issue #37892 is about moving the IDLE Shell prompt away from the first line of user code input, so that code starts at the margin where continuation lines start and we can use space indents. I said the prompt could either go left, into a sidebar,

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Change by Tal Einat : -- pull_requests: +21653 pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/22682 ___ Python tracker ___

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Change by E. Paine : -- assignee: -> terry.reedy components: +IDLE nosy: +epaine versions: +Python 3.10 -Python 3.7 ___ Python tracker ___

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: Raymond, FWIW, this will fix at least one of the issues you've mentioned: "Cntl-A on macOS jumps before the >>> prompt". -- ___ Python tracker

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: > Can you also show a script running with F5 showing a restart, the output from > the script and a subsequent interactive session that shows the inspecting > variables. Also show what an exception and SyntaxError looks like. I've attached a screenshot showing

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Guido van Rossum added the comment: @raymond Please stop spamming this issue with unrelated IDLE issues. -- ___ Python tracker ___

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: Hmm, the turtle demo is barely usable on the mac: * The "Choose Example from Menu" is a label and not clickable. * The left pane is clickable but does nothing. * When code is chosen from the menu the font-size is small. * The "start" button label is

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: > The turtle demo is easily accessible through the > menus via Help > Turtle Thanks. I didn't see that one land. It is a nice improvement. -- ___ Python tracker

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Stephen Paul Chappell added the comment: @rhettinger: The turtle demo is easily accessible through the menus via Help > Turtle Demo. It is nice to see there are others interested in IDLE's improvement. :-) -- ___ Python tracker

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: This feature may be fine or it may not. I haven't been able to apply the PR and get a working Python 3.9 with Tkinter support, nor have I seen the requested additional screen shots. Ideally, major changes in appearance or functionality should have

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Change by Raymond Hettinger : -- nosy: -rhettinger ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe:

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: Yes. -- ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list Unsubscribe:

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: Do you still plan to backport to 3.7 and 3.8? -- ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: With the support from Guido and others here and on idle-dev, Terry and I will be moving forward with this change. However, I take Raymond's concern about this "killing our teaching workflow" seriously. Raymond, let's please work to figure out how to make sure

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Guido van Rossum added the comment: Strong +1. I should have done this 20 years ago. -- nosy: +gvanrossum ___ Python tracker ___

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: My previous response was to comments up to msg355812. To answer Raymond's subsequent questions: The user will enter python code the same as before. Currently, the indents and resulting appearance of the code on Shell screen is different from (and worse,

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: Thanks. Can you also show a script running with F5 showing a restart, the output from the script and a subsequent interactive session that shows the inspecting variables. Also show what an exception and SyntaxError looks like. --

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: To help get a feel for what the current PR looks like, I'm attaching a screenshot (taken on Windows 10). -- Added file: https://bugs.python.org/file48690/screenshot.png ___ Python tracker

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Terry J. Reedy added the comment: As stated in my second opening sentence, this issue "implements the first phase of #37892", which gives the context and specific rationale. There are 3 separate parts to a Python Shell. 1. Code entry, indentation, display, and copying. This issue fixes

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: > By the way, how popular are doctests these days? Arguably, Sphinx has made them more popular than ever. For me, they are essential. And as long as doctest remains a non-deprecated module, we have to retain support. For the record, I'm opposed to

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: > This is marked for 3.7 through 3.9. Do you intend to backport this PR? IDLE generally has a different backporting policy: We generally backport all IDLE development to all versions of Python that aren't in security-only or unmaintained status, except for 2.7.

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: Stephen (Zero), thanks for the clarification. FWIW I'm -1 on the ability to customize the prompts in the sidebar. It would complicate the implementation while reducing the straightforwardness and simplicity of IDLE. Also, anyone who *really* wants to customize

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: > After the PR, can someone easily reproduce the interactive prompt sessions > in the tutorial and maindocs. Yes, except with prompts (both >>> and ...) in the sidebar rather than inline. > Will it look the same? No, see above. > Would they be able to build

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: After the PR, can someone easily reproduce the interactive prompt sessions in the tutorial and maindocs. Will it look the same? Would they be able to build doctest examples in the IDLE shell? This is marked for 3.7 through 3.9. Do you intend to

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Stephen Paul Chappell added the comment: Zero: "not to have them added as text as is usual in a terminal window" taleinat: "removing prompts from the shell window's text widget" Zero: "print the values of ps1 and ps2 in the proposed ShellIO subclass" taleinat: "separate sidebar

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: Stephen, perhaps what you're suggesting is out of context for this issue? This issue is about removing prompts from the shell window's text widget, replacing them with a separate sidebar showing where prompts and user input were. This will make IDLE's shell less

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Stephen Paul Chappell added the comment: Maybe my impression has been false this whole time, but the Python interactive interpreter seems to be very similar to the IDLE shell window. My question is, "Why not make them even more so?" Having IDLE react to sys.ps1 and sys.ps2 opens up the

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: Stehpen, I'm not sure what your use-case is... To me it seems that sys.ps1 (and ps2?) aren't quite relevant any more when using a sidebar, since there are no longer inline prompts. Raymond, with the current PR, this replaces the inline prompts. Making it

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Raymond Hettinger added the comment: Will the current interactive shell continue to be available? -- nosy: +rhettinger ___ Python tracker ___

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Stephen Paul Chappell added the comment: The documentation for sys.ps1 and sys.ps2 states that they "are only defined if the interpreter is in interactive mode." Since the IDLE shell is meant to be interactive (and to reduce the differences between the shell and running Python directly),

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Tal Einat added the comment: See PR GH-15474 with an implementation. -- ___ Python tracker ___ ___ Python-bugs-list mailing list

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

Change by Tal Einat : -- keywords: +patch pull_requests: +15162 stage: test needed -> patch review pull_request: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/15474 ___ Python tracker

[issue37903] IDLE Shell sidebar.

New submission from Terry J. Reedy : This issue proposes to add a shell-specific sidebar to Shell. It follows-up #17535, which added a line-number sidebar to module editors and implements the first phase of #37892, which proposes that the single statement editing area of Shell should be