Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Hoi, Fred L. Drake, Jr. acm.org> writes: > > On Monday 21 May 2007, A.M. Kuchling wrote: > > Disadvantages: > > > > * reST markup isn't much simpler than LaTeX. > > * reST doesn't support nested markup, which is used in the current > documentation. For a lightweight markup language that

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Armin Ronacher schrieb: > Hoi, > > Fred L. Drake, Jr. acm.org> writes: > >> >> On Monday 21 May 2007, A.M. Kuchling wrote: >> > Disadvantages: >> > >> > * reST markup isn't much simpler than LaTeX. >> >> * reST doesn't support nested markup, which is used in the current >> documentation.

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Fred L. Drake, Jr. schrieb: > On Monday 21 May 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Take a look at . It records request > > counts for the various pages and presents the most frequently requested > > pages in a section at the top of the page. I can make the scri

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

Hi Mark, >> +1 from me. >> >> I think this is simply a bug introduced with the UCS4 patches in >> Python 2.2. >> >> unicodeobject.h already has this code: >> >> #ifndef PY_UNICODE_TYPE >> >> /* Windows has a usable wchar_t type (unless we're using UCS-4) */ >> # if defined(MS_WIN32) && Py_UNICODE_

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

> -Original Message- > From: "Martin v. Löwis" [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 05:33 > To: Steve Holden > Cc: Kristján Valur Jónsson; Mark Hammond; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > python-dev@python.org > Subject: Re: Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows > > > Addressing

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

> -Original Message- > Nobody proposed to ditch cross-compilation. I very much like > cross-compilation, I do all Itanium and AMD64 in cross-compilation. > > I just want the *file structure* of the output to be the very same > for all architectures, meaning that they can't coexist in a si

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Armin Ronacher writes: > rst is simpler than latex: > > LaTeX: > > \item[\code{*?}, \code{+?}, \code{??}] The \character{*}, > \character{+}, and \character{?} qualifiers are all \dfn{greedy}; they > match as much text as possible. Sometimes this behaviour isn't > desired; if the RE \re

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

> -Original Message- > > > It seems the > > > best thing might be to modify the PCBuild8 build process so the > output > > > binaries are in the ../PCBuild' directory - this way distutils and > others > > > continue to work fine. Does that sound reasonable? > > > I think Kristjan will ha

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Hoi, Stephen J. Turnbull xemacs.org> writes: > > IMO that pair of examples shows clearly that, in this application, > reST is not an improvement over LaTeX in terms of readability/ > writability of source. It's probably not worse, although I can't help > muttering "EIBTI". In particular I fin

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

It would appear that while we slept Jens Mortensen was busy at work on his rst2{latex,latexmath,mathml}.py scripts: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/sandbox/jensj/latex_math/ Note the date on the files. It seems to work pretty well, and as others have pointed out, LaTeX notation is probably

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > It would appear that while we slept Jens Mortensen was busy at work on his > rst2{latex,latexmath,mathml}.py scripts: > > http://docutils.sourceforge.net/sandbox/jensj/latex_math/ > > Note the date on the files. It seems to work pretty well, and as others > hav

Re: [Python-Dev] Module cleanup improvement

Hi Alan, On Mon, May 21, 2007 at 08:17:02PM -0400, Alan McIntyre wrote: > Adding a step C1.5 which removes only objects that return true for > PyInstance_Check seems to prevent the problem exhibited by this bug (I > tried it out locally on the trunk and it doesn't cause any problems > with the reg

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

> Someone mentioned the idea to have a bat file do it. I like > that idea. There is already a build.bat file which will > build whatever configuration you choose (platform and > configuration). Extending it to subsequently copy the > resulting binaries up one level is easy. Perhaps this is

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > IMO that pair of examples shows clearly that, in this application, > reST is not an improvement over LaTeX in terms of readability/ > writability of source. It's probably not worse, although I can't help > muttering "EIBTI". In particular I find the "``'...'``" constr

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > True enough. There is MathML and its offspring, ASCIIMathML, which are > probably worth looking at. > > http://www.w3.org/Math/ > http://www1.chapman.edu/~jipsen/asciimath.html > > I have no idea if either one has backend support for presentation outside > the

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On 5/22/07, Armin Ronacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > * reST markup isn't much simpler than LaTeX. > > > > * reST doesn't support nested markup, which is used in the current > > documentation. > > For a lightweight markup language that is human readable (which rst certainly > is) th

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On 5/22/07, Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > So in Armin's example, I found the reST version *much* easier to read. > Whether that difference in perception is due simply to my relative lack > of experience in using LaTeX, or to something else, I have no idea. - If you make a mistake in

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On May 22, 2007, at 10:37 AM, Martin Blais wrote: > That, and the ability to already parse it from Python and more easily > convert to other formats (one of LaTeX's weaknesses), are the only > benefits that I can see to switching away from LaTeX. I h

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On Tuesday 22 May 2007, Barry Warsaw wrote: > considerably. Even with a nice distro packaging system it can be a > PITA to get all the tools you need to build the documentation > properly installed. A pure-Python solution, even a lesser one, would > be a win if we can still produce top qualit

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Neal> I know almost nothing about docutils internals. How do I Neal> 'install' the above? Me either. Here's what I did: * download and expand the latest docutils snapshot * replicate Jens's work in a directory called "math" at the top level of the docutils directory *

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Hoi, Martin Blais furius.ca> writes: > About possibilities: I'm sorry but that is simply not true. LaTeX > provides the full power of macro expansion, while ReST is a fixed > (almost, roles are an exception) syntax which has its own set of > problems and ambiguities. I was speaking of rst in co

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Fred> The biggest potential wins I see for a new system are: Fred> - more contributions Fred> - platform-independent processing Fred> I remain sceptical on being able to achieve the first, but there Fred> some hope for it. You at least take away a common excuse for lack of

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

> - If you make a mistake in LaTeX, you will get a cryptic error which > is usually a little difficult to figure out (if you're not used to > it). You can an error though. FWIW, the pure Python program in Tools/scripts/texchecker.py does a pretty good job of catching typical LaTeX mistakes and

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Armin Ronacher schrieb: >> That, and the ability to already parse it from Python and more easily >> convert to other formats (one of LaTeX's weaknesses), are the only >> benefits that I can see to switching away from LaTeX. I have to admit >> I'm afraid we would be moving to a lesser technology, a

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Hoi, Georg Brandl gmx.net> writes: > Who's documenting a scripting language? Wanted to say agile :D Regards, Armin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.o

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: > Fred> The biggest potential wins I see for a new system are: > > Fred> - more contributions > > Fred> - platform-independent processing > > Fred> I remain sceptical on being able to achieve the first, but there > Fred> some hope for it. > > You a

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Fred> The biggest potential wins I see for a new system are: > > Fred> - more contributions > > Fred> - platform-independent processing > > Fred> I remain sceptical on being able to achieve the first, but there > Fred> some hope for it. > > You at

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

> - If you make a mistake in LaTeX, you will get a cryptic error which > is usually a little difficult to figure out (if you're not used to > it). You can an error though. FWIW, the pure Python program in Tools/scripts/texchecker.py does a pretty good job of catching typical LaTeX mistakes and

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

> - If you make a mistake in LaTeX, you will get a cryptic error which > is usually a little difficult to figure out (if you're not used to > it). You can an error though. FWIW, the pure Python program in Tools/scripts/texchecker.py does a pretty good job of catching typical LaTeX mistakes and

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

> - If you make a mistake in LaTeX, you will get a cryptic error which > is usually a little difficult to figure out (if you're not used to > it). You can an error though. FWIW, the pure Python program in Tools/scripts/texchecker.py does a pretty good job of catching typical LaTeX mistakes and

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

> - If you make a mistake in LaTeX, you will get a cryptic error which > is usually a little difficult to figure out (if you're not used to > it). You can an error though. FWIW, the pure Python program in Tools/scripts/texchecker.py does a pretty good job of catching typical LaTeX mistakes and

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Martin Blais schrieb: > On 5/22/07, Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> So in Armin's example, I found the reST version *much* easier to read. >> Whether that difference in perception is due simply to my relative lack >> of experience in using LaTeX, or to something else, I have no idea.

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On Tuesday 22 May 2007, Georg Brandl wrote: > But that's at least funnier than before :) It's not our job to make whiner-babies sound funny. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/ma

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Raymond Hettinger schrieb: >> - If you make a mistake in LaTeX, you will get a cryptic error which >> is usually a little difficult to figure out (if you're not used to >> it). You can an error though. > > FWIW, the pure Python program in Tools/scripts/texchecker.py does a > pretty good job of

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On Tue, May 22, 2007 at 06:13:36PM +0200, Georg Brandl wrote: > Finding the location that tells you how to suggest changes, and opening > a new bug in the infamous SF tracker is not really something people do > happily. A "click here to suggest a change" link that leads to a pseudo- > edit-form, co

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

>> You at least take away a common excuse for lack of contributions. >> True whiners will just come up with new ones (e.g., "the >> documentation isn't available in Sanskrit yet" or "the dog ate my >> changes before I could type them into the computer"). ;-) Steve> But doesn't

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On Tue, May 22, 2007 at 11:45:04AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -> -> >> You at least take away a common excuse for lack of contributions. -> >> True whiners will just come up with new ones (e.g., "the -> >> documentation isn't available in Sanskrit yet" or "the dog ate my -> >>

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Titus Brown wrote: > On Tue, May 22, 2007 at 11:45:04AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > -> > -> >> You at least take away a common excuse for lack of contributions. > -> >> True whiners will just come up with new ones (e.g., "the > -> >> documentation isn't available in Sanskrit yet"

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On Tue, May 22, 2007 at 01:19:36PM -0400, Steve Holden wrote: > > For example, this rocks! :: > > > > http://pydoc.gbrandl.de/search.html?q=os.path&area=default > > It would be more impressive if the search string returned hits ... Also if it was not completely reliant on JavaScript... (Maybe

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

> > IMO that pair of examples shows clearly that, in this application, > > reST is not an improvement over LaTeX in terms of readability/ > > writability of source. It's probably not worse, although I can't help > > muttering "EIBTI". In particular I find the "``'...'``" construct > > horribly un

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Steve Holden schrieb: > Titus Brown wrote: >> On Tue, May 22, 2007 at 11:45:04AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> -> >> -> >> You at least take away a common excuse for lack of contributions. >> -> >> True whiners will just come up with new ones (e.g., "the >> -> >> documentation isn

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

BJörn Lindqvist schrieb: >> > IMO that pair of examples shows clearly that, in this application, >> > reST is not an improvement over LaTeX in terms of readability/ >> > writability of source. It's probably not worse, although I can't help >> > muttering "EIBTI". In particular I find the "``'...'

Re: [Python-Dev] Introduction and request for commit access to the sandbox.

On 5/21/07, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > With that said, I would to request svn access to the sandbox for my > > work. I will use this access only for modifying stuff in the directory > > I will be assigned to. I would like to use the username "avassalotti" > > and the attached

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

> I'd be happy to install Windows and the latest VisualStudio on a 64-bit > VMware image. I just can't be responsible for day-to-day administration > of the buildslave; Windows requires too much attention for me to do > that. Thanks for the offer. Perhaps Kristjan is interested in setting up a bu

[Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Martin v. Löwis schrieb: > That docutils happens to be written in Python should make little > difference - it's *not* part of the Python language project, > and is just a tool for us, very much like latex and latex2html. Not entirely. When I first started looking at python, I read a lot of docum

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

> While that is true in theory, I often find it is not the case in practice, > generally due to the optimizer. Depending on what magic the compiler has > done, it can be very difficult to set breakpoints (conditional or > otherwise), inspect variable values, etc. It is useful in some cases, but >

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

> Surely there are differences between architectures? PC uses MSI after all. > Why can't linux be under trunk/linux and pc 86 under trunk/pcbuild8/win32PGO > and 64 under trunk/pcbuild8/x64pgo? That couldn't work for me. I try avoid building on a network drive, and with local drives, I just can't

Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

> I have a set of extensions that use SWIG to wrap my own C++ library. > This library, on a day-to-day basis is built against VS8 since the rest > of our product suite is. Right now I have no way to work with this code > using VS8 since the standard distribution is built against VS7 which > uses

Re: [Python-Dev] Adventures with x64, VS7 and VS8 on Windows

> If there are no technical and corporate difficulties, such as > firewalls and security, I am sure that CCP can provide a > VisualStudio2005 buildbot for our needs. Wasn't there some issue that > each buildbot can only provide a single build? Yes, but you can have multiple buildbot slaves on a s

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On Tue, 22 May 2007, Steve Holden wrote: > But doesn't *everyone* now know that documentation contributions don't > have to be marked up? It's certainly been said enough. Maybe that fact > should be more prominent in the documentation? Then we'll just have to > worry about getting people to read it

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

> > In your examples, I think the ReST version can be cleaned up quite a > > bit. First by using the .. default-role:: literal directive so that > > you can type `foo()` instead of using double back quotes and then you > > can remove the redundant semantic markup. Like this: > > I've already assign

Re: [Python-Dev] Module cleanup improvement

> On another level, would there be interest here for me to revive my old > attempt at throwing away this messy procedure, which only made sense in > a world where reference cycles couldn't be broken? I definitely think Py3k, at least, should use such an approach - especially with PEP 3121, which s

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Hoi, Additionally to the offline docs that Georg published some days ago there is also a web version which currently looks and works pretty much like the offline version. There are however some differences that are worth knowing: - Cleaner URLs. You can actually guess them because we took the ide

Re: [Python-Dev] Module cleanup improvement

[Armin Rigo] > On another level, would there be interest here for me to revive my old > attempt at throwing away this messy procedure, which only made sense in > a world where reference cycles couldn't be broken? Definitely. > Nowadays the fact that global variables suddenly become None when the

[Python-Dev] Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary

Patch / Bug Summary ___ Patches : 364 open ( +2) / 3769 closed ( +3) / 4133 total ( +5) Bugs: 986 open (+18) / 6701 closed ( +9) / 7687 total (+27) RFE : 258 open ( +2) / 287 closed ( +1) / 545 total ( +3) New / Reopened Patches __ syslog sy

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On 5/22/07, Georg Brandl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Don't get me wrong, LaTeX is a powerful tool and I use it for every bigger > > document i type. I just think it's not the best choice for documenting > > scripting > > languages. > > Who's documenting a scripting language? Hehe I can't bel

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

On 5/22/07, Martin Blais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > ReST works well only when there is little markup. Writing code > documentation generally requires a lot of markup, you want to make > variables, classes, functions, parameters, constants, etc.. (A better > avenue IMHO would be to augment doc

Re: [Python-Dev] Module cleanup improvement

Armin Rigo wrote: > if we consider a > CPython in which the cycle GC has been disabled by the user, then many > __del__'s would not be called any more at interpreter shutdown. That can happen now anyway. Module clearing only cleans up cycles that go through the module dict. +1 from me on getting

Re: [Python-Dev] Need Survey Answers from Core Developers

On Saturday 19 May 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Jeff> 1) How is the project governed? How does the community > make Jeff>decisions on what goes into a release? > Consensus (most of the time) and GvR pronouncements for > significant changes. There are situations where Guido has simply

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] Introduction and request for commit access to the sandbox.

On 5/22/07, Alexandre Vassalotti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > As you see, cStringIO's code also needs a good cleanup to make it, > at least, conforms to PEP-7. Alexandre, It would be great if you could break up unrelated changes into separate patches. Some of these can go in sooner rather than

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Armin Ronacher schrieb: > Hoi, > > Additionally to the offline docs that Georg published some days ago there is > also a web version which currently looks and works pretty much like the > offline > version. There are however some differences that are worth knowing: > > - Cleaner URLs. You can ac

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

Georg Brandl schrieb: > Armin Ronacher schrieb: >> Hoi, >> >> Additionally to the offline docs that Georg published some days ago there is >> also a web version which currently looks and works pretty much like the >> offline >> version. There are however some differences that are worth knowing: >