Re: [Python-Dev] General Q&A regarding Python 3, adoption etc.

2014-01-06 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 7 Jan 2014 07:46, "Antoine Pitrou" wrote: > > I assume it's > http://python-notes.curiousefficiency.org/en/latest/python3/questions_and_answers.html Thanks, that's the one - I copied the link, but neglected to paste it in before hitting send :P Cheers, Nick. > > Regards > > Antoine. > > > __

Re: [Python-Dev] General Q&A regarding Python 3, adoption etc.

2014-01-06 Thread Emile van Sebille
On 1/6/2014 3:16 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: I thought I mentioned it on this list last year when I first wrote it, but some messages I've seen recently suggest many folks haven't seen it before. And even more will see it if you provide a link. Please. Emile ___

Re: [Python-Dev] General Q&A regarding Python 3, adoption etc.

2014-01-06 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Tue, 7 Jan 2014 09:16:10 +1000 Nick Coghlan wrote: > For anyone that isn't already aware, I wrote a Q & A about Python 3 last > year (in response to an article about how we should have fixed the GIL > instead of Unicode), and I've updated it extensively over the past several > days due to Alex'

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed: The Great Argument Clinic Conversion Derby

2014-01-06 Thread Brett Cannon
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Skip Montanaro wrote: > On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Antoine Pitrou > wrote: > >> I agree with Serhiy, but that is probably known at this point. :) > > > > I agree with Serhiy and you too. Clinic's current output makes C files > > more tedious to read, and I'm

Re: [Python-Dev] General Q&A regarding Python 3, adoption etc.

2014-01-06 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 23:25:12 + Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 06/01/2014 23:16, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > For anyone that isn't already aware, I wrote a Q & A about Python 3 last > > year (in response to an article about how we should have fixed the GIL > > instead of Unicode), and I've updated it ex

Re: [Python-Dev] General Q&A regarding Python 3, adoption etc.

2014-01-06 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 06/01/2014 23:16, Nick Coghlan wrote: For anyone that isn't already aware, I wrote a Q & A about Python 3 last year (in response to an article about how we should have fixed the GIL instead of Unicode), and I've updated it extensively over the past several days due to Alex's misunderstanding o

Re: [Python-Dev] General Q&A regarding Python 3, adoption etc.

2014-01-06 Thread Benjamin Peterson
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014, at 03:16 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > For anyone that isn't already aware, I wrote a Q & A about Python 3 last > year (in response to an article about how we should have fixed the GIL > instead of Unicode), and I've updated it extensively over the past > several > days due to Alex

[Python-Dev] General Q&A regarding Python 3, adoption etc.

2014-01-06 Thread Nick Coghlan
For anyone that isn't already aware, I wrote a Q & A about Python 3 last year (in response to an article about how we should have fixed the GIL instead of Unicode), and I've updated it extensively over the past several days due to Alex's misunderstanding of the objectives for Python 3.4 as well as

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-06 Thread Tim Delaney
I've just posted about PEP 460 and this discussion on the mercurial-devel mailing list. Tim Delaney ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/option

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed: The Great Argument Clinic Conversion Derby

2014-01-06 Thread Serhiy Storchaka
06.01.14 22:53, Erik Bray написав(ла): I ask because some built-in functions are used internally by other built-in functions. I don't know how common this is but, for example, fileio_read calls fileio_readall. So if fileio_readall is renamed to io_FileIO_readall_impl or whatever we need to also

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed: The Great Argument Clinic Conversion Derby

2014-01-06 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 00:25:53 +0100 > Stefan Krah wrote: >> Nick Coghlan wrote: >> > > I had that working at one point. Guido said no, keep it all in one file. >> > > I'm flexible but first you'd have to convince him. >> > >> > It's also no

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed: The Great Argument Clinic Conversion Derby

2014-01-06 Thread Erik Bray
On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Larry Hastings wrote: > Now, properly converting a function to work with Argument Clinic does not > change its behavior. Internally, the code performing argument parsing > should be nigh-identical; it should call the same PyArg_Parse function, with > the same argu

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed: The Great Argument Clinic Conversion Derby

2014-01-06 Thread Skip Montanaro
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> I agree with Serhiy, but that is probably known at this point. :) > > I agree with Serhiy and you too. Clinic's current output makes C files > more tedious to read, and I'm not really willing to participate in the > "conversion derby" becaus

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed: The Great Argument Clinic Conversion Derby

2014-01-06 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 00:25:53 +0100 Stefan Krah wrote: > Nick Coghlan wrote: > > > I had that working at one point. Guido said no, keep it all in one file. > > > I'm flexible but first you'd have to convince him. > > > > It's also not something we're stuck with forever - we can start with it >

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: whatsnew: XMLPullParser, plus some doc updates.

2014-01-06 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 01:22:21 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 5 Jan 2014 12:54, "r.david.murray" wrote: > > > > http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/069f88f4935f > > changeset: 88308:069f88f4935f > > user:R David Murray > > date:Sat Jan 04 23:52:50 2014 -0500 > > summary: > > what

Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 3.4.0b2

2014-01-06 Thread Michael Urman
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 9:43 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > Since MSIEXEC.EXE is a legit binary (not coming from our packager) and > Akamai is a legitimate company (MS most likely has an agreement with > them), at this point I would assume that there's something that > MSIEXEC.EXE wants to get from

[Python-Dev] The desired behaviour for resolve() when the path doesn't exist

2014-01-06 Thread Vajrasky Kok
Dear friends, This is related with ticket 19717: "resolve() fails when the path doesn't exist". Assuming /home/cutecat exists but not /home/cutecat/aa, what is the desired output of Path('/home/cutecat/aa/bb/cc').resolve(strict=False)? Should it be: "/home/cutecat" (the existed path only), "/h

Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 3.4.0b2

2014-01-06 Thread Paul Moore
On 6 January 2014 15:29, Bob Hanson wrote: > At any rate, the attempts to connect to the network seem like > undesirable behavior to this man. If pip is necessary, then some > Window users may well end up without it -- and then not know why > something later doesn't work. I have installed python

Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 3.4.0b2

2014-01-06 Thread Guido van Rossum
Since MSIEXEC.EXE is a legit binary (not coming from our packager) and Akamai is a legitimate company (MS most likely has an agreement with them), at this point I would assume that there's something that MSIEXEC.EXE wants to get from Akamai, which is unintentionally but harmlessly triggered by the

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: whatsnew: XMLPullParser, plus some doc updates.

2014-01-06 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 5 Jan 2014 12:54, "r.david.murray" wrote: > > http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/069f88f4935f > changeset: 88308:069f88f4935f > user:R David Murray > date:Sat Jan 04 23:52:50 2014 -0500 > summary: > whatsnew: XMLPullParser, plus some doc updates. > > I was confused by the tex

Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 3.4.0b2

2014-01-06 Thread Bob Hanson
[For the record: I'm running 32bit Windows XP (Pro) SP2 and installing "for all users."] TL;DR: No matter what I tried this morning re uninstalling and reinstalling 3.4.0b2, pip or no pip, MSI still tried to connect to the Akamai URLs. On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 23:06:49 -0500, R. David Murray wrote: >

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-06 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 6 Jan 2014 22:56, "Brett Cannon" wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 9:45 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> >> >> On 6 Jan 2014 22:15, "Brett Cannon" wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, 7 Jan 2014 00:54:17 +1100 >> >> Chris A

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-06 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Tue, 7 Jan 2014 00:45:58 +1000 Nick Coghlan wrote: > > Right, but it seems to me that a new helper module that could be made > backwards compatible at least as far as 2.6 (if not further) would be more > useful for that than a builtin change that won't be available until 2015. More useful in

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-06 Thread Brett Cannon
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 9:45 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 6 Jan 2014 22:15, "Brett Cannon" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Antoine Pitrou > wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, 7 Jan 2014 00:54:17 +1100 > >> Chris Angelico wrote: > >> > On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Antoine

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-06 Thread Eric V. Smith
On 01/06/2014 09:50 AM, Xavier Morel wrote: > On 2014-01-06, at 14:44 , Antoine Pitrou wrote: >>> Then, >>> the following points must be decided to define the complete list of >>> supported features (formatters): >>> >>> * Format integer to hexadecimal? ``%x`` and ``%X`` >>> * Format integer to oc

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-06 Thread Xavier Morel
On 2014-01-06, at 14:44 , Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> Then, >> the following points must be decided to define the complete list of >> supported features (formatters): >> >> * Format integer to hexadecimal? ``%x`` and ``%X`` >> * Format integer to octal? ``%o`` >> * Format integer to binary? ``{!b}``

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-06 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 6 Jan 2014 22:15, "Brett Cannon" wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> >> On Tue, 7 Jan 2014 00:54:17 +1100 >> Chris Angelico wrote: >> > On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> > > BTW, there's a subtlety here: ``%s`` currently means "in

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-06 Thread Brett Cannon
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > Hi, > > On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 14:24:50 +0100 > Victor Stinner wrote: > > > > The PEP is a draft with open questions. First, I'm not sure that both > > bytes%args and bytes.format(args) are needed. The implementation of > > .format() is more

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-06 Thread Brett Cannon
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jan 2014 00:54:17 +1100 > Chris Angelico wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Antoine Pitrou > wrote: > > > BTW, there's a subtlety here: ``%s`` currently means "insert the result > > > of calling __str__", but bytes forma

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 root buildbot showing errors

2014-01-06 Thread Brett Cannon
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:09 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > The first build my new root buildbot did showed errors in the 2.7 test > suite, but I thought little of it as quite a few other 2.7 buildbots > are showing red, too. But it seems they're showing different errors, > so there might be somethin

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-06 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Tue, 7 Jan 2014 00:54:17 +1100 Chris Angelico wrote: > On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > BTW, there's a subtlety here: ``%s`` currently means "insert the result > > of calling __str__", but bytes formatting should *not* call __str__. > > Since it derives from the C pr

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-06 Thread Chris Angelico
On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > BTW, there's a subtlety here: ``%s`` currently means "insert the result > of calling __str__", but bytes formatting should *not* call __str__. Since it derives from the C printf notation, it means "insert string here". The fact that __str__

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-06 Thread Antoine Pitrou
Hi, On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 14:24:50 +0100 Victor Stinner wrote: > > The PEP is a draft with open questions. First, I'm not sure that both > bytes%args and bytes.format(args) are needed. The implementation of > .format() is more complex, so why not only adding bytes%args? I think we must either imp

[Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

2014-01-06 Thread Victor Stinner
Hi, bytes % args and bytes.format(args) are requested by Mercurial and Twisted projects. The issue #3982 was stuck because nobody proposed a complete definition of the "new" features. Here is a try as a PEP. The PEP is a draft with open questions. First, I'm not sure that both bytes%args and byte

Re: [Python-Dev] Subclasses vs. special methods

2014-01-06 Thread Walter Dörwald
On 04.01.14 13:58, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: Should implicit converting an instance of int, float, complex, str, bytes, etc subclasses to call appropriate special method __int__ (or __index__), __float__, __complex__, __str__, __bytes__, etc? Currently explicit converting calls these methods, but

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 root buildbot showing errors

2014-01-06 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 7:58 PM, Christian Heimes wrote: > Interesting, maybe it's a general NAT issue? So far I have seen the issue on > Windows only. What kind of VM are you using? I'm using virtualbox for my > Windows VMs. It's Oracle VirtualBox v4.2.20 r90963. > Just backport the test fixes.

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 root buildbot showing errors

2014-01-06 Thread Christian Heimes
On 06.01.2014 09:22, Chris Angelico wrote: No, it's Debian Wheezy inside Debian Wheezy; though the outer system is a somewhat messy one (I installed Wheezy before it was stable, and compiled my own ALSA drivers and a few other things). But it could well be that same issue, as it seems to involve

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 root buildbot showing errors

2014-01-06 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Christian Heimes wrote: > On 06.01.2014 08:09, Chris Angelico wrote: >> >> Then further down, several SSL tests attempt: >> >> s.connect_ex(("svn.python.org", 444))) >> >> and get back EAGAIN when they're expecting ECONNREFUSED. Possibly my >> firewall's delaying th

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 root buildbot showing errors

2014-01-06 Thread Christian Heimes
On 06.01.2014 08:09, Chris Angelico wrote: Then further down, several SSL tests attempt: s.connect_ex(("svn.python.org", 444))) and get back EAGAIN when they're expecting ECONNREFUSED. Possibly my firewall's delaying things somewhat and it's timing out with a signal; when I try manually, the co