Only three new revisions this time. Victor must have taken the day off!
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On 02/21/2014 10:57 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Ethan Furman writes:
On 02/21/2014 07:46 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
but not this:
value = expr except Exception: default except Exception: default
This should be the way it works. Nothing is gained in readability
by turning a try with
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 15:57:02 +0900
Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:
try:
interpolable = func(key)
except TypeError:
interpolable = not a string: %s % key
except KeyError:
interpolable = no such key: %s % key
print(Some message that
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:37:29 -0800
Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
I'm put off by the ':' syntax myself (it looks to me as if someone forgot a
newline somewhere) but 'then' feels even weirder (it's been hard-coded in
my brain as meaning the first branch of an 'if').
Would 'else' work
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 16:12:27 +0900
Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:
Note in support: I originally thought that get methods would be more
efficient, but since Nick pointed out that haveattr is implemented
by catching the exception (Yikes! LBYL implemented by using EAFP!), I
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 19:49:20 -0700
Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 7:07 PM, Victor Stinner
victor.stin...@gmail.com wrote:
Consider this example of a two-level cache::
for key in sequence:
x = (lvl1[key] except KeyError: (lvl2[key] except
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 01:42:57 -0600
Larry Hastings la...@hastings.org wrote:
Victor has asked me to cherry-pick 180e4b678003:
http://bugs.python.org/issue20320 (original issue)
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/180e4b678003/ (checkin into trunk)
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 8:20 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 16:12:27 +0900
Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:
Note in support: I originally thought that get methods would be more
efficient, but since Nick pointed out that haveattr is implemented
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Greg Ewing
greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
Nick Coghlan wrote:
As Chris later noted, you likely *could* still implement expression
local name binding for an except expression without a full closure, it
would just be rather difficult.
I'm still not
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 20:29:27 +1100
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
Which means that, fundamentally, EAFP is the way to do it. So if PEP
463 expressions had existed from the beginning, hasattr() probably
wouldn't have been written - people would just use an
except-expression instead.
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 20:29:27 +1100
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
Which means that, fundamentally, EAFP is the way to do it. So if PEP
463 expressions had existed from the beginning, hasattr() probably
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 7:46 PM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Greg Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz
wrote:
Nick Coghlan wrote:
On 21 February 2014 13:15, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
Generator expressions require parentheses,
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 21:09:07 +1100
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 20:29:27 +1100
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
Which means that, fundamentally, EAFP is the way to do it. So if
Antoine Pitrou writes:
Well, the only way to know that a key (or attribute) exists is to do
the lookup. What else would you suggest?
Do the lookup at the C level (or whatever the implementation language
is) and generate no exception, of course. That's what would make it
possibly more
On sam., 2014-02-22 at 19:29 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Antoine Pitrou writes:
Well, the only way to know that a key (or attribute) exists is to do
the lookup. What else would you suggest?
Do the lookup at the C level (or whatever the implementation language
is) and generate no
Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Greg Ewing
greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
I'm still not convinced it would be all *that* difficult.
Seems to me it would be semantically equivalent to
renaming the inner variable and adding a finally clause
to unbind it. Is there
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 9:17 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 21:09:07 +1100
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 20:29:27 +1100
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Greg Ewing
greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Greg Ewing
greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
I'm still not convinced it would be all *that* difficult.
Seems to me it would be semantically equivalent to
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 22:13:58 +1100
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
Well, can you propose the corresponding except-expression?
It's hard to do hasattr itself without something messy - the best I
can come up with is this:
hasattr(x,y) - (x.y or True except AttributeError: False)
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
Yeah, none of these examples makes a convincing case that hasattr() is
useless, IMO.
I'm not trying to make the case that it's useless. I'm trying to show
that, if it didn't exist, all of these would be written some
Antoine Pitrou writes:
On sam., 2014-02-22 at 19:29 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Antoine Pitrou writes:
Well, the only way to know that a key (or attribute) exists is to do
the lookup. What else would you suggest?
Do the lookup at the C level (or whatever the
On sam., 2014-02-22 at 20:54 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Antoine Pitrou writes:
On sam., 2014-02-22 at 19:29 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Antoine Pitrou writes:
Well, the only way to know that a key (or attribute) exists is to do
the lookup. What else would you
Antoine Pitrou writes:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 22:13:58 +1100
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
hasattr(x,y) - (x.y or True except AttributeError: False)
But it's not the same. hasattr() returns a boolean, not an arbitrary
value.
I think he meant
hasattr(x,y) - (x.y and True
On 2/22/2014 6:27 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 22:13:58 +1100
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
Lib/inspect.py:1350:
return sys._getframe(1) if hasattr(sys, _getframe) else None
becomes
return (sys._getframe(1) except AttributeError: None)
May hide a bug if
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull
step...@xemacs.org wrote:
Antoine Pitrou writes:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 22:13:58 +1100
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
hasattr(x,y) - (x.y or True except AttributeError: False)
But it's not the same. hasattr() returns a
On 22 Feb 2014 09:59, Greg Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
Nick Coghlan wrote:
As Chris later noted, you likely *could* still implement expression
local name binding for an except expression without a full closure, it
would just be rather difficult.
I'm still not convinced it
On 22 Feb 2014 22:15, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:
Antoine Pitrou writes:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2014 22:13:58 +1100
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
hasattr(x,y) - (x.y or True except AttributeError: False)
But it's not the same. hasattr() returns a boolean, not an
Thank you for your recommendations Jessica. I am looking forward to work
with python this gsoc.
On 22 February 2014 08:39, Jessica McKellar jessica.mckel...@gmail.comwrote:
Hi Navneet,
This is my first year in gsoc. I have been working with python and
django
from quite a time. One of
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:41 PM, Greg Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nzwrote:
Ethan Furman wrote:
On 02/21/2014 03:29 PM, Greg Ewing wrote:
value = lst[2] except No value if IndexError
It does read nicely, and is fine for the single, non-nested, case (which
is probably the vast
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 4:13 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:37:29 -0800
Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
I'm put off by the ':' syntax myself (it looks to me as if someone
forgot a
newline somewhere) but 'then' feels even weirder (it's been
On 22/02/2014 16:36, Brett Cannon wrote:
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 4:13 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net
mailto:solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:37:29 -0800
Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org mailto:gu...@python.org wrote:
I'm put off by the ':' syntax
On 23 February 2014 02:29, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
On 22 Feb 2014 22:15, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:
Antoine Pitrou writes:
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
hasattr(x,y) - (x.y or True except AttributeError: False)
But it's not the same.
Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org writes:
Ethan Furman writes:
On 02/21/2014 07:46 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
but not this:
value = expr except Exception: default except Exception: default
This should be the way it works. Nothing is gained in readability
by
Antoine Pitrou writes:
Sure, but complaining about inefficiencies without asserting their
significance is not very useful.
Since you completely missed the point of my post, I'll explain. I was
in no way complaining about inefficiencies.
My point was precisely the opposite: to the extent
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 2:08 AM, Thomas Wouters tho...@python.org wrote:
(FWIW, I have a working patch without tests that allows all of these, I'll
upload it tonight so people can play with it. Oh, and FWIW, currently I'm
+0 on the idea, -0 on the specific syntax.)
On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Thomas Wouters tho...@python.org wrote:
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 2:08 AM, Thomas Wouters tho...@python.org wrote:
(FWIW, I have a working patch without tests that allows all of these, I'll
upload it tonight so people can play with it. Oh, and FWIW, currently
On 2014-02-23 00:09, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Thomas Wouters tho...@python.org
wrote:
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 2:08 AM, Thomas Wouters tho...@python.org
wrote:
(FWIW, I have a working patch without tests that allows all of
these, I'll upload it tonight so
On 23 February 2014 11:11, MRAB pyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com wrote:
On 2014-02-23 00:09, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Thomas Wouters tho...@python.org
wrote:
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 2:08 AM, Thomas Wouters tho...@python.org
wrote:
(FWIW, I have a working patch
Greetings, all!
I think I'm about ready to ask for pronouncement for this PEP, but I would like opinions on the Open Questions question
so I can close it. :)
Please let me know if anything else needs tweaking.
--
PEP: 461
Title: Adding %
Sorry, found a couple more comments in a different thread. Here's what I added:
+Objections
+==
+
+The objections raised against this PEP were mainly variations on two themes::
+
+ - the ``bytes`` and ``bytearray`` types are for pure binary data, with no
+assumptions about
On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
Open Questions
==
It has been suggested to use ``%b`` for bytes as well as ``%s``.
- Pro: clearly says 'this is bytes'; should be used for new code.
- Con: does not exist in Python 2.x, so we would
On 23/02/2014 02:30, Ethan Furman wrote:
+be any more of a nuisance than the already existing methdods.
Typo methdods.
--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.
Mark Lawrence
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On 22Feb2014 17:56, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
Please let me know if anything else needs tweaking.
[...]
This area of programming is characterized by a mixture of binary data and
ASCII compatible segments of text (aka ASCII-encoded text).
[...]
%-interpolation
All the numeric
On 02/22/2014 07:29 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 23/02/2014 02:30, Ethan Furman wrote:
+be any more of a nuisance than the already existing methdods.
Typo methdods.
Thanks, fixed.
--
~Ethan~
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On 02/22/2014 07:47 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
On 22Feb2014 17:56, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
Please let me know if anything else needs tweaking.
[...]
This area of programming is characterized by a mixture of binary data and
ASCII compatible segments of text (aka ASCII-encoded
On 23 February 2014 13:47, Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au wrote:
On 22Feb2014 17:56, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
Please let me know if anything else needs tweaking.
[...]
This area of programming is characterized by a mixture of binary data and
ASCII compatible segments of text
Thanks Ethan, this mostly looks excellent.
On 23 February 2014 11:56, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
``%a`` will call :func:``ascii()`` on the interpolated value's
:func:``repr()``.
This is intended as a debugging aid, rather than something that should be
used
in production.
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