[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 683: "Immortal Objects, Using a Fixed Refcount" (round 2)

2022-02-21 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/21/2022 11:11 AM, Petr Viktorin wrote: On 19. 02. 22 8:46, Eric Snow wrote: As part of this proposal, we must make sure that users can clearly understand on which parts of the refcount behavior they can rely and which are considered implementation details.  Specifically, they should use

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 683: "Immortal Objects, Using a Fixed Refcount"

2022-02-21 Thread Chris Angelico
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 at 03:00, Larry Hastings wrote: > > > On 2/21/22 22:06, Chris Angelico wrote: > > On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 at 16:47, Larry Hastings wrote: > > While I don't think it's fine to play devil's advocate, given the choice > between "this will help a common production use-case"

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 683: "Immortal Objects, Using a Fixed Refcount" (round 2)

2022-02-21 Thread dw-git
Petr Viktorin wrote: > Should we care about hacks/optimizations that rely on having the only > reference (or all references), e.g. mutating a tuple if it has refcount > 1? Immortal objects shouldn't break them (the special case simply won't > apply), but this wording would make them illegal. >

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 683: "Immortal Objects, Using a Fixed Refcount" (round 2)

2022-02-21 Thread Petr Viktorin
On 19. 02. 22 8:46, Eric Snow wrote: Thanks to all those that provided feedback. I've worked to substantially update the PEP in response. The text is included below. Further feedback is appreciated. Thank you! This version is much clearer. I like the PEP more and more! I've sent a PR with a

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 683: "Immortal Objects, Using a Fixed Refcount"

2022-02-21 Thread Larry Hastings
On 2/21/22 22:06, Chris Angelico wrote: On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 at 16:47, Larry Hastings wrote: While I don't think it's fine to play devil's advocate, given the choice between "this will help a common production use-case" (pre-fork servers) and "this could hurt a hypothetical production use

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 683: "Immortal Objects, Using a Fixed Refcount"

2022-02-21 Thread Larry Hastings
On 2/21/22 21:44, Larry Hastings wrote: While I don't think it's fine to play devil's advocate," Oh!  Please ignore the word "don't" in the above sentence.  I /do/ think it's fine to play devil's advocate. Sheesh, //arry/ ___ Python-Dev

[Python-Dev] Re: Steering Council reply to PEP 670 -- Convert macros to functions in the Python C API

2022-02-21 Thread Victor Stinner
Well, maybe it's a bad example. I just wanted to say that converting macros to static inline functions provide more accurate profiler data and debuggers can more easily show static inline functions names when they are inlined and put breakpoints of them. But you're right, it's not a silver bullet

[Python-Dev] Re: Move the pythoncapi_compat project under the GitHub Python or PSF organization?

2022-02-21 Thread Victor Stinner
Results of the poll (which was open for 10 days): * Move pythoncapi_compat: 19 votes (90%) * Don't move pythoncapi_compat: 2 votes (10%) Victor On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 12:16 AM Victor Stinner wrote: > > I created a poll on Discourse: >

[Python-Dev] A memory map based data persistence and startup speedup approach

2022-02-21 Thread Yichen Yan via Python-Dev
Hi folks, as illustrated in faster-cpython#150 [1], we have implemented a mechanism that supports data persistence of a subset of python date types with mmap, therefore can reduce package import time by caching code object. This could be seen as a more eager pyc format, as they are for the