Re: [Python-Dev] Bring new features to older python versions

I have some similar code in kitchen: http://packages.python.org/kitchen/api-overview.html It wasn't as ambitious as your initial goals sound (I was only working on pulling out what was necessary for what people requested rather than an all-inclusive set of changes). You're welcome to join me

Re: [Python-Dev] Bring new features to older python versions

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 12:22:12AM -0400, Terry Reedy wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:21 PM, Giampaolo Rodolà wrote: Thanks everybody for your feedback. I created a gcode project here: http://code.google.com/p/pycompat/ This project will be easier if the test suite for a particular

Re: [Python-Dev] Bring new features to older python versions

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 01:49:43PM +0100, Michael Foord wrote: On 10/10/2011 21:21, Giampaolo Rodolà wrote: Toshio Kuratomia.bad...@gmail.com wrote: I have a need to support a small amount of code as far back as python-2.3 I don't suppose you're interested in that as well? ;-) I'm still

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros

Note: I'm the opposite number to bkabrda in the discussion on the Fedora Lists about how quickly we should be breaking end-user expectations of what python means. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 09:34:11AM -0400, Brett Cannon wrote: On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 5:12 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros

On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:42:09PM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Jul 25, 2013, at 01:41 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: How's this for an updated wording in the abstract: * for the time being, all distributions should ensure that python refers to the same target as python2 * however, users

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros

On Jul 24, 2013 6:37 AM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: The key, though, is adding python2 and getting your code to use that binary specifically so that shifting the default name is more of a convenience than something which might break existing code not ready for the switch. Applicable

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros

On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:25:26PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 25 July 2013 20:38, Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com wrote: On Jul 24, 2013 6:37 AM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: The key, though, is adding python2 and getting your code to use that binary specifically so

Re: [Python-Dev] Offtopic: OpenID Providers

On Thu, Sep 05, 2013 at 02:53:43PM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote: This probably isn't the only application of these technologies, but I've always thought about OAuth as delegating authority to scripts and programs to act on your behalf. For example, you can write a script to interact with

Re: [Python-Dev] Offtopic: OpenID Providers

On Thu, Sep 05, 2013 at 10:25:22PM +0400, Oleg Broytman wrote: On Thu, Sep 05, 2013 at 02:16:29PM -0400, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote: On Sep 5, 2013, at 2:12 PM, Oleg Broytman p...@phdru.name wrote: I used to use myOpenID and became my own provider using poit[1]. These

Re: [Python-Dev] Offtopic: OpenID Providers

On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Barry Warsaw writes: We're open source, and I think it benefits our mission to support open, decentralized, and free systems like OpenID and Persona. Thus speaks an employee of yet another

Re: [Python-Dev] non-US zip archives support in zipfile.py

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 03:46:15PM +0200, Martin v. Löwis wrote: Am 15.10.13 14:49, schrieb Daniel Holth: It is part of the ZIP specification. CP437 or UTF-8 are the two official choices, but other encodings happen on Russian, Japanese systems. Indeed. Formally, the other encodings are

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 to be default in Fedora 22

On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 01:32:36PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 25 Oct 2013 09:02, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: http://lwn.net/Articles/571528/ https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_3_as_Default Note that unlike Arch, the Fedora devs currently plan to leave /usr/bin/

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On Tue, Jan 07, 2014 at 09:26:20PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Is this really a good idea? PEP 460 proposes rather different semantics for bytes.format and the bytes % operator from the str versions. I think this is going to be both confusing and a continuous target for further

Re: [Python-Dev] Bumping autoconf from 2.68 to 2.69

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:27:24AM +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 05:05:23 -0400 Trent Nelson tr...@snakebite.org wrote: On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 01:43:37AM -0700, Charles-François Natali wrote: My understanding is that we use a specific version of autoconf. The reason

Re: [Python-Dev] Accept just PEP-0426

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 07:49:41PM -0500, Donald Stufft wrote: Other languages seem to get along fine without it. Even the OS managers which have it don't allow it to be used to masquerade as another project, only to make generic virtual packages (e.g. email). I'm not sure this assertion

Re: [Python-Dev] Accept just PEP-0426

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 06:43:32PM -0500, Daniel Holth wrote: No. We trust the packages we install, including the way they decide to use the metadata. A bad package could delete all our files or cause dependency resolution to fail. Mostly they won't. Agreed. And this is closer to the way

Re: [Python-Dev] Keyword meanings [was: Accept just PEP-0426]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2012 at 02:46:11AM -0500, Donald Stufft wrote: On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 at 2:13 AM, PJ Eby wrote: On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Daniel Holth dho...@gmail.com wrote: How to use Obsoletes: The author of B decides A is obsolete. A

Re: [Python-Dev] Keyword meanings [was: Accept just PEP-0426]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2012 at 07:34:41PM -0500, PJ Eby wrote: On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Donald Stufft donald.stu...@gmail.com wrote: Nobody has actually proposed a better one, outside of package renaming -- and that example featured an author who could just as easily have used an

Re: [Python-Dev] Keyword meanings [was: Accept just PEP-0426]

On Fri, Dec 07, 2012 at 01:18:40AM -0500, PJ Eby wrote: On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 1:49 AM, Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 05, 2012 at 07:34:41PM -0500, PJ Eby wrote: On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Donald Stufft donald.stu...@gmail.com wrote: Nobody has actually

Re: [Python-Dev] Conflicts [was Re: Keyword meanings [was: Accept just PEP-0426]]

On Sun, Dec 09, 2012 at 01:51:09PM +1100, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: Why would a software package called Spam install a top-level module called Jam rather than Spam? Isn't the whole point of Python packages to solve this

Re: [Python-Dev] Conflicts [was Re: Keyword meanings [was: Accept just PEP-0426]]

On Sun, Dec 09, 2012 at 12:48:45AM -0500, PJ Eby wrote: Do any of the distro folks know of a Python project tagged as conflicting with another for their distro, where the conflict does *not* involve any files in conflict? In Fedora we do work to avoid most types of Conflicts (backporting

Re: [Python-Dev] Keyword meanings [was: Accept just PEP-0426]

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 10:46 PM, PJ Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote: In any case, as I said before, I don't have an issue with the fields all being declared as being for informational purposes only. My issue is only with recommendations for automated tool behavior that permit one project's

Re: [Python-Dev] Bilingual scripts

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 05:57:28PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 5:56 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: Have any other *nix distros addressed this, and if so, how do you solve it? I believe Fedora follows the lead set by our own makefile and just appends a 3 to

Re: [Python-Dev] Bilingual scripts

On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 01:22:01PM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote: On May 27, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: - If upstream doesn't deal with it, then we use a python3- prefix. This matches with our package naming so it seemed to make sense. (But Barry's point about locate

Re: [Python-Dev] Distutils ML wrap-up: setup.cfg new format

On 09/23/2009 10:00 AM, Tarek Ziadé wrote: But you are right about the need of making sure every package management project is involved. We should make sure that Enthought, which has its own package management system, is part of that consensus. Also, I am more concerned of not having enough

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 389: argparse - new command line parsing module

On 09/29/2009 04:38 PM, Steven Bethard wrote: On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Glenn Linderman v+pyt...@g.nevcal.com wrote: On approximately 9/29/2009 1:57 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Steven Bethard: If you're not using argparse to write command line applications,

Re: [Python-Dev] Distutils and Distribute roadmap (and some words on Virtualenv, Pip)

On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 01:27:57PM +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: Tarek Ziadé a écrit : But if PEP 376 and PEP 386 support are added in Python, we're not far from being able to provide multiple version support with the help of importlib. Before putting much work into this: do you really

Re: [Python-Dev] Distutils and Distribute roadmap (and some words on Virtualenv, Pip)

On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 02:52:24PM +0200, Simon Cross wrote: On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Tarek Ziadé ziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote: = Virtualenv and the multiple version support in Distribute = ... My opinion is that this tool exists only because Python doesn't support the installation

Re: [Python-Dev] Distutils and Distribute roadmap (and some words on Virtualenv, Pip)

On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 06:56:19PM +0200, kiorky wrote: Toshio Kuratomi a écrit : Also note, the ability to have multiple versions makes things easier for system packagers and provides an easy alternative to a virtualenv for end-users. * System packagers: virtualenv does

Re: [Python-Dev] Distutils and Distribute roadmap (and some?words?on Virtualenv, Pip)

On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 04:28:52PM +, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Toshio Kuratomi a.badger at gmail.com writes: This is needing to install multiple versions and use the newly installed version for testing. [...] What you're missing is that having separate environments has a virtue

Re: [Python-Dev] Distutils and Distribute roadmap (and some words on Virtualenv, Pip)

On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 05:30:00PM +0100, Michael Foord wrote: Toshio Kuratomi wrote: On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 02:52:24PM +0200, Simon Cross wrote: On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Tarek Ziadé ziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote: = Virtualenv and the multiple version support in Distribute

Re: [Python-Dev] supporting multiple versions of one package in one environment is insane

On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 04:51:00PM +0100, Chris Withers wrote: Tarek Ziadé wrote: Virtualenv allows you to create an isolated environment to install some distribution without polluting the main site-packages, a bit like a user site-packages. ...as does buildout, and these are the right type

Re: [Python-Dev] supporting multiple versions of one package in one environment is insane

On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 05:29:28PM +0100, Chris Withers wrote: Toshio Kuratomi wrote: On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 04:51:00PM +0100, Chris Withers wrote: Tarek Ziadé wrote: Virtualenv allows you to create an isolated environment to install some distribution without polluting the main site

Re: [Python-Dev] buildtime vs runtime in Distutils

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 02:31:45PM +0100, Georg Brandl wrote: Antoine Pitrou schrieb: Tarek Ziadé ziade.tarek at gmail.com writes: This cannot work on all platforms, when our Makefile is not shipped with python but python-devel. (like Fedora) This practice is stupid anyway, because

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3146: Merge Unladen Swallow into CPython

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 12:25:59PM +, Antoine Pitrou wrote: We seek guidance from the community on an acceptable level of increased memory usage. I think a 10-20% increase would be acceptable. I'm just a user of the core interpreter but the bottleneck in using python in my environment

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3146: Merge Unladen Swallow into CPython

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 09:32:23AM -0800, Collin Winter wrote: Hi Dirkjan, On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Dirkjan Ochtman dirk...@ochtman.nl wrote: For some apps (like Mercurial, which I happen to sometimes hack on), increased startup time really sucks. We already have our demandimport

Re: [Python-Dev] Add UTC to 2.7 (PyCon sprint idea)

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 09:15:25AM +0700, Stuart Bishop wrote: The Debian, Ubuntu and I think Redhat packages all use the system zoneinfo database - there are hooks in there to support package maintainers that want to do this. Where RedHat == Fedora EPEL packages for RHEL/Centos 5, yes :-)

Re: [Python-Dev] what to do if you don't want your module in Debian

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 09:41:02AM +0200, Tarek Ziadé wrote: On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 05:46:55PM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Apr 26, 2010, at 09:39 PM, Tarek Ziadé wrote: You should be permissive on that one

Re: [Python-Dev] Use ptyhon -s as default shbang for system python executables/daemons

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 03:30:23PM +0100, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 07:22:56 -0700 Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com wrote: Building off Nick's idea of a system python vs a python for users to use, I would see a more useful modification to be able to specify SPYTHONPATH

Re: [Python-Dev] Use ptyhon -s as default shbang for system python executables/daemons

-Toshio On Mar 19, 2015 3:27 PM, Victor Stinner victor.stin...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-03-19 21:47 GMT+01:00 Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com: I think I've found the Debian discussion (October 2012): http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.python/8188 Lack of PYTHONWARNINGS

Re: [Python-Dev] Use ptyhon -s as default shbang for system python executables/daemons

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 04:14:52PM +0100, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 08:06:13 -0700 Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com wrote: I really think Donald has a good point when he suggests a specific virtualenv for system programs using Python. The isolation is what we're

Re: [Python-Dev] [Distutils] Python 3.x Adoption for PyPI and PyPI Download Numbers

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 01:54:55PM -0400, Donald Stufft wrote: Anyways, I'll have access to the data set for another day or two before I shut down the (expensive) server that I have to use to crunch the numbers so if there's anything anyone else wants to see before I shut it down, speak up

Re: [Python-Dev] 2.7 is here until 2020, please don't call it a waste.

On May 30, 2015 1:56 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: Being ready, willing and able to handle the kind of situation created by the Python 2-3 community transition is a large part of what it means to offer commercial support for community driven open source projects, as it buys

Re: [Python-Dev] Request for pronouncement on PEP 493 (HTTPS verification backport guidance)

On Nov 26, 2015 4:53 PM, "Nick Coghlan" wrote: > > On 27 November 2015 at 03:15, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > > Likewise in Ubuntu, we try to keep deviations from Debian at a minimum, and > > document them when we must deviate. Ubuntu is a community driven

Re: [Python-Dev] Request for pronouncement on PEP 493 (HTTPS verification backport guidance)

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > I'm not actually sure that it's the place of this PEP to even comment > on what the long term answer for such environments should be (or > indeed, any answer, long term or not). I've argued the position that > in some

Re: [Python-Dev] Request for pronouncement on PEP 493 (HTTPS verification backport guidance)

On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 5:59 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > I'm concerned about accepting PEP 493 making a strong recommendation to > downstreams. Yes, in an ideal world we all want security by default, but I > think the backward compatibility concerns of the PEP are understated, >

Re: [Python-Dev] Request for pronouncement on PEP 493 (HTTPS verification backport guidance)

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Paul Moore <p.f.mo...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 24 November 2015 at 18:37, Toshio Kuratomi <a.bad...@gmail.com> wrote: >> The cornercases come >> into play because you don't always control all of the devices and >> services on your

[Python-Dev] Fwd: Request for pronouncement on PEP 493 (HTTPS verification backport guidance)

On Nov 24, 2015 6:28 AM, "Laura Creighton" wrote: > > In a message of Tue, 24 Nov 2015 14:05:53 +, Paul Moore writes: > >Simply adding "people who have no control over their broken > >infrastructure" with a note that this PEP helps them, would be > >sufficient here (and

Re: [Python-Dev] Why does base64 return bytes?

On Jun 14, 2016 8:32 AM, "Joao S. O. Bueno" wrote: > > On 14 June 2016 at 12:19, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > Is there > > a good reason for returning bytes? > > What about: it returns 0-255 numeric values for each position in a stream, with > no clue

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 538: Coercing the legacy C locale to a UTF-8 based locale

On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 11:50 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > Providing implicit locale coercion only when running standalone > --- > > Over the course of Python 3.x development, multiple attempts have been made > to

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal: go back to enabling DeprecationWarning by default

On Nov 7, 2017 5:47 AM, "Paul Moore" wrote: On 7 November 2017 at 13:35, Philipp A. wrote: > Sorry, I still don’t understand how any of this is a problem. > > If you’re an application developer, google “python disable > DeprecationWarning” and paste the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 540: Add a new UTF-8 mode (v3)

On Dec 9, 2017 8:53 PM, "INADA Naoki" wrote: > Earlier versions of PEP 538 thus included "en_US.UTF-8" on the > candidate target locale list, but that turned out to cause assorted > problems due to the "C -> en_US" part of the coercion. Hm, but PEP 538 says: > this PEP

Re: [Python-Dev] A fast startup patch (was: Python startup time)

On Sat, May 5, 2018, 10:40 AM Eric Fahlgren <ericfahlg...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Toshio Kuratomi <a.bad...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> On Fri, May 4, 2018, 7:00 PM Nathaniel Smith <n...@pobox.com> wrote: >> >>> What ar

Re: [Python-Dev] A fast startup patch (was: Python startup time)

On Fri, May 4, 2018, 7:00 PM Nathaniel Smith wrote: > What are the obstacles to including "preloaded" objects in regular .pyc > files, so that everyone can take advantage of this without rebuilding the > interpreter? > Would this make .pyc files arch specific? -Toshio

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

On Jan 13, 2018 9:08 AM, "Christian Heimes" wrote: Hi, PEP 370 [1] was my first PEP that got accepted. I created it exactly one decade and two days ago for Python 2.6 and 3.0. I didn't know I had you to thank for this! Thanks Christian! This is one of the best features

Re: [Python-Dev] Inclusion of lz4 bindings in stdlib?

On Thu, Nov 29, 2018, 6:56 AM Benjamin Peterson > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018, at 15:27, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 10:43:04AM -0800, Gregory P. Smith wrote: > > > > > PyPI makes getting more algorithms easy. > > > > Can we please stop over-generalising like this? PyPI makes

Re: [Python-Dev] Compile-time resolution of packages [Was: Another update for PEP 394...]

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 2:07 PM Neil Schemenauer wrote: > On 2019-02-26, Gregory P. Smith wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 9:55 AM Barry Warsaw wrote: > > For an OS distro provided interpreter, being able to restrict its use to > > only OS distro provided software would be ideal (so ideal

[Python-Dev] Re: What to do about invalid escape sequences

On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 6:47 PM wrote: > > I wish people with more product management experience would chime in; > otherwise, 3.8 is going to ship with an intentional hard-to-ignore annoyance > on the premise that we don't like the way people have been programming and > that they need to change

[Python-Dev] Re: [python-committers] Resignation from Stefan Krah

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020, 5:30 AM Christian Heimes wrote: > On 09/10/2020 04.04, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: > > I don't see the point of requiring to "write an apology", especially > > *before a 12-month ban*. If they understand that their behavior is > > wrong, there's no need for a ban, at

[Python-Dev] Re: pre-PEP: Unicode Security Considerations for Python

This is an excellent enumeration of some of the concerns! One minor comment about the introductory material: On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 5:21 AM Petr Viktorin wrote: > > > > Introduction > > > > > > Python code is written in `Unicode`_ – a system for encoding and > > handling all kinds

[Python-Dev] Re: Are "Batteries Included" still a Good Thing? [was: It's now time to deprecate the stdlib urllib module]

On Tue, Mar 29, 2022, 10:55 AM Brett Cannon wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 8:58 AM Ronald Oussoren > wrote: > >> >> >> On 29 Mar 2022, at 00:34, Brett Cannon wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 28, 2022 at 11:52 AM Christopher Barker >> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Mar 28, 2022 at 11:29 AM Paul

[Python-Dev] Re: Are "Batteries Included" still a Good Thing? [was: It's now time to deprecate the stdlib urllib module]

On Sun, Mar 27, 2022, 11:07 AM Paul Moore wrote: > On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 at 17:11, Christopher Barker > wrote: > > Back to the topic at hand, rather than remove urllib, maybe it could be > made better -- an as-easy-to-use-as-requests package in the stdlib would be > really great. > > I think

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