On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 10:47 AM Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>
> Highly dubious. I'd rather focus on just moving to UTF-8 as the
> default, rather than bringing in a new function - especially with such
> a confusing name.
>
> What exactly are the blockers on making open(fn) use UTF-8 by default?
Back
On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 2:43 PM Random832 wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2021, at 20:34, Inada Naoki wrote:
> > * Default encoding is "utf-8".
>
> it might be worthwhile to be a little more sophisticated than this.
>
> Notepad itself uses character set detection [it might not be reasonable to do
> th
On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 9:04 PM Inada Naoki wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 10:47 AM Chris Angelico wrote:
> >
> >
> > Highly dubious. I'd rather focus on just moving to UTF-8 as the
> > default, rather than bringing in a new function - especially with such
> > a confusing name.
> >
> > What e
Hello,
On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 19:04:08 +0900
Inada Naoki wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 10:47 AM Chris Angelico
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Highly dubious. I'd rather focus on just moving to UTF-8 as the
> > default, rather than bringing in a new function - especially with
> > such a confusing name.
>
On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 7:13 PM Chris Angelico wrote:
>
> > On the other hand, if we add `open_text()`:
> >
> > * Replacing open with open_text is easier than adding `, encoding="utf-8"`.
> > * Teachers can teach to use `open_text` to open text files. Students
> > can use "utf-8" by default withou
On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 7:31 PM Paul Sokolovsky wrote:
> >
> > * Replacing open with open_text is easier than adding `,
> > encoding="utf-8"`.
>
> How is it easier, if "open_text" exists only in imagination, while
> encoding="utf-8" has been there all this time?
>
Note that the warning is not ena
On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 01:31:28PM +0300, Paul Sokolovsky wrote:
> > * Teachers can teach to use `open_text` to open text files. Students
> > can use "utf-8" by default without knowing about what encoding is.
>
> Let's also add max_int(), min_int(), max_float(), min_float() builtins.
> Teachers c
On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 12:40:55AM -0500, Random832 wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2021, at 20:34, Inada Naoki wrote:
> > * Default encoding is "utf-8".
>
> it might be worthwhile to be a little more sophisticated than this.
>
> Notepad itself uses character set detection [it might not be
> reasonable
Chris Angelico writes:
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 12:37 PM Inada Naoki wrote:
> > ## 1. Add `io.open_text()`, builtin `open_text()`, and
> > `pathlib.Path.open_text()`.
> >
> > All functions are same to `io.open()` or `Path.open()`, except:
> >
> > * Default encoding is "utf-8".
I wonder i
On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 11:34 PM Stephen J. Turnbull
wrote:
> > I'd rather focus on just moving to UTF-8 as the default, rather
> > than bringing in a new function - especially with such a confusing
> > name.
>
> I expect there are several bodies of users who will experience that as
> quite obn
Steven D'Aprano writes:
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 12:40:55AM -0500, Random832 wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 22, 2021, at 20:34, Inada Naoki wrote:
> > > * Default encoding is "utf-8".
> >
> > it might be worthwhile to be a little more sophisticated than this.
> >
> > Notepad itself uses character
> On 23 Jan 2021, at 11:00, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 12:40:55AM -0500, Random832 wrote:
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2021, at 20:34, Inada Naoki wrote:
>>> * Default encoding is "utf-8".
>>
>> it might be worthwhile to be a little more sophisticated than this.
>>
>> Notepad i
On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 2:31 AM Barry Scott wrote:
> I think that you are going to create a bug magnet if you attempt to auto
> detect the encoding.
>
> First problem I see is that the file may be a pipe and then you will block
> until you have enough data to do the auto detect.
>
> Second problem
On 2021-01-23 10:11, Chris Angelico wrote:
[snip]
Okay. If the goal is to make UTF-8 the default, may I request that PEP
597 say so, please? With a heading of "deprecation", it's not really
clear what its actual goal is.
From the sound of things - and it's still possible I'm misreading PEP
59
On 23Jan2021 22:00, Stephen J. Turnbull
wrote:
>I see very little use in detecting the BOMs. I haven't seen a UTF-16
>BOM in the wild in a decade (as usual for me, that's Japan-specific,
>and may be limited to the academic community as well), and the UTF-8
>BOM is a no-op if the default is UTF-8
On Sat, Jan 23, 2021, at 05:06, Inada Naoki wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 2:43 PM Random832 wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 22, 2021, at 20:34, Inada Naoki wrote:
> > > * Default encoding is "utf-8".
> >
> > it might be worthwhile to be a little more sophisticated than this.
> >
> > Notepad itself u
On Sat, Jan 23, 2021, at 08:00, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> I see very little use in detecting the BOMs. I haven't seen a UTF-16
> BOM in the wild in a decade (as usual for me, that's Japan-specific,
> and may be limited to the academic community as well), and the UTF-8
> BOM is a no-op if the de
On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 11:59:12PM +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> So Windows is being a pain in the behind, once again, because it
> doesn't move forward.
*cough*
That would be called "backwards compatibility" :-)
Microsoft's attitude towards backwards compatibility is probably even
stricter
I have definitely seen BOMs written by Notepad on Windows 10.
Why can’t the future be that open() in text mode guesses the encoding?
--
--Guido (mobile)
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On 2021-01-24 01:14, Guido van Rossum wrote:
I have definitely seen BOMs written by Notepad on Windows 10.
Why can’t the future be that open() in text mode guesses the encoding?
"In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess."
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Python-i
On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 10:17 AM Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> I have definitely seen BOMs written by Notepad on Windows 10.
>
> Why can’t the future be that open() in text mode guesses the encoding?
I don't like guessing. As a Japanese, I have seen many mojibake caused
by the wrong guess.
I don't
On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 01:32:28AM +, MRAB wrote:
> On 2021-01-24 01:14, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> >I have definitely seen BOMs written by Notepad on Windows 10.
> >
> >Why can’t the future be that open() in text mode guesses the encoding?
> >
> "In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation
On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 9:22 PM Inada Naoki wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 10:17 AM Guido van Rossum
> wrote:
> >
> > I have definitely seen BOMs written by Notepad on Windows 10.
> >
> > Why can’t the future be that open() in text mode guesses the encoding?
>
> I don't like guessing. As a Jap
On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 2:46 PM Matt Wozniski wrote:
> 2. At the same time as the deprecation is announced, introduce a new
> __future__ import named "utf8_open" or something like that, to opt into the
> future behavior of `open` defaulting to utf-8-sig or utf-8 when opening a
> file in text mo
On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 10:51 PM Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 2:46 PM Matt Wozniski wrote:
> > 2. At the same time as the deprecation is announced, introduce a new
> __future__ import named "utf8_open" or something like that, to opt into the
> future behavior of `open` default
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