Re: A Pragmatic Case for Static Typing

On Monday, September 2, 2013 1:10:34 AM UTC-7, Paul Rubin wrote: > "Russ P." writes: > > > I just stumbled across this video and found it interesting: > > > http://vimeo.com/72870631 > > > My apologies if it has been posted here already. > > >

A Pragmatic Case for Static Typing

I just stumbled across this video and found it interesting: http://vimeo.com/72870631 My apologies if it has been posted here already. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Bools and explicitness [was Re: PyWart: The problem with "print"]

On Thursday, June 6, 2013 2:29:02 AM UTC-7, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 06 Jun 2013 12:29:44 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Steven D'Aprano > > > wrote: > > >> On Wed, 05 Jun 2013 14:59:31

Re: Bools and explicitness [was Re: PyWart: The problem with "print"]

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 7:29:44 PM UTC-7, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Steven D'Aprano > > wrote: > > > On Wed, 05 Jun 2013 14:59:31 -0700, Russ P. wrote: > > >> As for Python, my experience with it is that, as > > >

Re: Bools and explicitness [was Re: PyWart: The problem with "print"]

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 4:18:13 PM UTC-7, Michael Torrie wrote: > On 06/05/2013 12:11 AM, Russ P. wrote: > > > But then, what would you expect of a language that allows you to > > > write > > > > > > x = 1 > > > x = "Hello" >

Re: Bools and explicitness [was Re: PyWart: The problem with "print"]

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 9:59:07 AM UTC-7, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 2:15 AM, Russ P. wrote: > > > On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 1:59:01 AM UTC-7, Mark Lawrence wrote: > > >> I want to launch this rocket with an expensive satellite on top. I know >

Re: Bools and explicitness [was Re: PyWart: The problem with "print"]

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 1:59:01 AM UTC-7, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 05/06/2013 07:11, Russ P. wrote: > > > > > But then, what would you expect of a language that allows you to write > > > > > > x = 1 > > > x = "Hello" > &

Re: Bools and explicitness [was Re: PyWart: The problem with "print"]

On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 12:15:57 AM UTC-7, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Russ P. wrote: > > > On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 8:44:11 AM UTC-7, Rick Johnson wrote: > > > > > >> Yes, but the problem is not "my approach", rather

Re: Bools and explicitness [was Re: PyWart: The problem with "print"]

On Tuesday, June 4, 2013 8:44:11 AM UTC-7, Rick Johnson wrote: > Yes, but the problem is not "my approach", rather the lack > > of proper language design (my apologizes to the "anointed > > one". ;-) If you don't like implicit conversion to Boolean, then maybe you should be using another langu

Re: Controlling number of zeros of exponent in scientific notation

One possibility is to form the string as usual, split on the "e", format each part separately, then rejoin with an "e". On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 12:09:10 PM UTC-8, fa...@squashclub.org wrote: > Instead of: > > > > 1.8e-04 > > > > I need: > > > > 1.8e-004 > > > > So two zeros before t

Re: numpy (matrix solver) - python vs. matlab

On May 3, 4:59 pm, someone wrote: > On 05/04/2012 12:58 AM, Russ P. wrote: > > > Yeah, I realized that I should rephrase my previous statement to > > something like this: > > > For any *empirical* engineering or scientific work, I'd say that a > > c

Re: numpy (matrix solver) - python vs. matlab

ather than empirical. Still, a condition number of 1e6 would bother me, but maybe that's just me. --Russ P. On May 3, 3:21 pm, someone wrote: > On 05/03/2012 07:55 PM, Russ P. wrote: > > > > > On May 3, 10:30 am, someone  wrote: > >> On 05/02/2012 11:45 PM, Russ P. wro

Re: numpy (matrix solver) - python vs. matlab

On May 3, 10:30 am, someone wrote: > On 05/02/2012 11:45 PM, Russ P. wrote: > > > > > On May 2, 1:29 pm, someone  wrote: > > >>> If your data starts off with only 1 or 2 digits of accuracy, as in your > >>> example, then the result is meaningless -

Re: numpy (matrix solver) - python vs. matlab

On May 2, 1:29 pm, someone wrote: > > If your data starts off with only 1 or 2 digits of accuracy, as in your > > example, then the result is meaningless -- the accuracy will be 2-2 > > digits, or 0 -- *no* digits in the answer can be trusted to be accurate. > > I just solved a FEM eigenvalue pro

Re: numpy (matrix solver) - python vs. matlab

On May 1, 11:03 pm, someone wrote: > On 05/02/2012 01:38 AM, Russ P. wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On May 1, 4:05 pm, Paul Rubin  wrote: > >> someone  writes: > >>> Actually I know some... I just didn't think so much about, before &

Re: numpy (matrix solver) - python vs. matlab

On May 1, 4:05 pm, Paul Rubin wrote: > someone writes: > > Actually I know some... I just didn't think so much about, before > > writing the question this as I should, I know theres also something > > like singular value decomposition that I think can help solve > > otherwise illposed problems, >

Re: numpy (matrix solver) - python vs. matlab

On May 1, 11:52 am, someone wrote: > On 04/30/2012 03:35 AM, Nasser M. Abbasi wrote: > > > On 04/29/2012 07:59 PM, someone wrote: > > I do not use python much myself, but a quick google showed that pyhton > > scipy has API for linalg, so use, which is from the documentation, the > > following code

Re: numpy (matrix solver) - python vs. matlab

On Apr 29, 5:17 pm, someone wrote: > On 04/30/2012 12:39 AM, Kiuhnm wrote: > > >> So Matlab at least warns about "Matrix is close to singular or badly > >> scaled", which python (and I guess most other languages) does not... > > > A is not just close to singular: it's singular! > > Ok. When do you

Re: are int, float, long, double, side-effects of computer engineering?

On Mar 6, 7:25 pm, rusi wrote: > On Mar 6, 6:11 am, Xah Lee wrote: > > > some additional info i thought is relevant. > > > are int, float, long, double, side-effects of computer engineering? > > It is a bit naive for computer scientists to club integers and reals > as mathematicians do given that

Re: are int, float, long, double, side-effects of computer engineering?

On Mar 5, 10:34 pm, Xah Lee wrote: > On Mar 5, 9:26 pm, Tim Roberts wrote: > > > Xah Lee wrote: > > > >some additional info i thought is relevant. > > > >are int, float, long, double, side-effects of computer engineering? > > > Of course they are.  Such concepts violate the purity of a computer

Re: killing a script

On Aug 28, 8:16 pm, Chris Rebert wrote: > On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Russ P. wrote: > > On Aug 28, 7:51 pm, Chris Angelico wrote: > >> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Russ P. wrote: > >> > On Aug 28, 6:52 pm, MRAB wrote: > >> >> You could

Re: killing a script

On Aug 28, 8:16 pm, Chris Rebert wrote: > On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Russ P. wrote: > > On Aug 28, 7:51 pm, Chris Angelico wrote: > >> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Russ P. wrote: > >> > On Aug 28, 6:52 pm, MRAB wrote: > >> >> You could

Re: killing a script

On Aug 28, 7:51 pm, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Russ P. wrote: > > On Aug 28, 6:52 pm, MRAB wrote: > >> You could look at the return value of os.system, which may tell you the > >> exit status of the process. > > > Thanks for t

Re: killing a script

On Aug 28, 6:52 pm, MRAB wrote: > On 29/08/2011 02:15, Russ P. wrote:> I have a Python (2.6.x) script on Linux > that loops through many > > directories and does processing for each. That processing includes > > several "os.system" calls for each directory (s

killing a script

and keeps running. If I hit Control-C repeatedly, I eventually get "lucky" and kill the top-level script. Is there a simple way to ensure that the first Control-C will kill the whole darn thing, i.e, the top-level script? Thanks. --Russ P. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python "why" questions

On Aug 23, 7:46 pm, alex23 wrote: > "Russ P." wrote: > > However, I've switched from Python to > > Scala, so I really don't care. > > Really? Your endless whining in this thread would seem to indicate > otherwise. Yes, I guess I care some, but not muc

Re: Python "why" questions

On Aug 22, 12:47 am, Chris Rebert wrote: > On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 12:23 AM, Russ P. wrote: > > On Aug 21, 1:33 am, Steven D'Aprano > cybersource.com.au> wrote: > >> On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 11:01:42 -0700, Russ P. wrote: > >> > Most programmers probably neve

Re: Python "why" questions

On Aug 21, 1:33 am, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 11:01:42 -0700, Russ P. wrote: > > Most programmers probably never use vectors and matrices, so they don't > > care about the inconsistency with standard mathematical notation. > > Perhaps you should

Re: Python "why" questions

On Aug 20, 11:19 am, geremy condra wrote: > Not sure what you read, but for me (mostly number theory, numerical > analysis, and abstract algebra) zero-based indexing is quite common. My background is in aerospace control engineering. I am certainly not familiar with the literature in pure mathem

Re: Python "why" questions

On Aug 20, 1:23 am, Martin Braun wrote: > I find this thread extremely interesting, but what surprised me that > everyone seems to agree that mathematics is 1-based, but we Pythoneers > should stick to zero-based. I disagree. To make sure I'm not going > crazy, I took the top five books lying on

Re: Python "why" questions

On Aug 19, 12:13 pm, Steven D'Aprano While businesses are conservative in which languages they choose, > language designers are not conservative in the design features they come > up with. That there has been a gradual (although as yet incomplete) > convergence towards zero-based indexing in langu

Re: Python "why" questions

Yes, apparently Basic uses one-based indexing too. As for Ada, apparently, the programmer needs to explicitly define the index range for every array. Weird. But I get the impression that one- based indexing is used much more than zero-based indexing. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pyt

Re: Python "why" questions

On Aug 19, 11:42 am, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 11:03:53 -0700, Russ P. wrote: > > For those who insist that zero-based indexing is a good idea, why you > > suppose mathematical vector/matrix notation has never used that > > convention? I have studi

Re: Python "why" questions

I just checked, and Mathematica uses one-based indexing. Apparently they want their notation to look mathematical. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python "why" questions

On Aug 19, 11:04 am, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:15:54 -0700, Russ P. wrote: > > The convention of starting with zero may have had some slight > > performance advantage in the early days of computing, but the huge > > potential for error that it

Re: Python "why" questions

On Aug 19, 9:07 am, "J.B. Brown" wrote: > 2010/8/9 MRAB : > > > Default User wrote: > > >> Not to prolong a good "food fight", but IIRC, many years ago in QBasic, > >> one could choose > > >> OPTION BASE 0 > > >> or > > >> OPTION BASE 1 > > When I wrote my own C++ 2-D matrix class, I wrote a membe

Re: Python "why" questions

On Aug 18, 7:58 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 14:47:08 -0700, Russ P. wrote: > > Is the top team in the league the number 1 team -- or the number 0 team? > > I have yet to hear anyone call the best team the number 0 team! > > Why is the top team the

Re: Python "why" questions

On Aug 18, 2:01 pm, AK wrote: > On 08/17/2010 10:15 PM, Russ P. wrote: > > > > > On Aug 7, 5:54 am, "D'Arcy J.M. Cain"  wrote: > > >> Would said beginner also be surprised that a newborn baby is zero years > >> old or would it be more natural

Re: Python "why" questions

On Aug 7, 5:54 am, "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" wrote: > Would said beginner also be surprised that a newborn baby is zero years > old or would it be more natural to call them a one year old?  Zero > based counting is perfectly natural. You're confusing continuous and discrete variables. Time is a continu

Re: (a==b) ? 'Yes' : 'No'

On Mar 30, 10:08 am, John Nagle wrote: > Chris Rebert wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:40 AM, gentlestone wrote: > >> Hi, how can I write the popular C/JAVA syntax in Python? > > >> Java example: > >>    return (a==b) ? 'Yes' : 'No' > > >> My first idea is: > >>    return ('No','Yes')[bool(a=

Re: "Usability, the Soul of Python"

According to Wikipedia, this is called the Whitesmith style: for(i = 99; i > 0; ++i) { printf("%d slabs of spam in my mail!\n", i); printf("%d slabs of spam,\n", i); printf("Send one to abuse and Just Hit Delete,\n"); printf("%d slabs of spam in my mail!\n\n", i + 1);

Re: New syntax for blocks

On Nov 17, 7:28 am, Jonathan Saxton wrote: > On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:27:31 +0100, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > >> Congratulations, you just reinvented one of the most infamous source of > >> bugs in C, C++, Java, PHP, javascript and quite a few other languages. > >> Believe it or not, but not allow

Re: Psyco on 64-bit machines

On Nov 12, 12:06 pm, "Russ P." wrote: > I have a Python program that runs too slow for some inputs. I would > like to speed it up without rewriting any code. Psyco seemed like > exactly what I need, until I saw that it only works on a 32-bit > architecture. I work in an env

Re: Psyco on 64-bit machines

On Nov 14, 10:15 am, "Diez B. Roggisch" wrote: > Russ P. schrieb: > > > I have a Python program that runs too slow for some inputs. I would > > like to speed it up without rewriting any code. Psyco seemed like > > exactly what I need, until I saw that it only wor

Re: Psyco on 64-bit machines

On Nov 12, 12:06 pm, "Russ P." wrote: > I have a Python program that runs too slow for some inputs. I would > like to speed it up without rewriting any code. Psyco seemed like > exactly what I need, until I saw that it only works on a 32-bit > architecture. I work in an env

Psyco on 64-bit machines

I have a Python program that runs too slow for some inputs. I would like to speed it up without rewriting any code. Psyco seemed like exactly what I need, until I saw that it only works on a 32-bit architecture. I work in an environment of Sun Ultras that are all 64- bit. However, the Psyco docs sa

Re: The rap against "while True:" loops

On Oct 10, 1:15 pm, kj wrote: > I'm coaching a group of biologists on basic Python scripting.  One > of my charges mentioned that he had come across the advice never > to use loops beginning with "while True".  Of course, that's one > way to start an infinite loop, but this seems hardly a sufficie

Is Psyco good for Python 2.6.1?

I need to speed up some Python code, and I discovered Psyco. However, the Psyco web page has not been updated since December 2007. Before I go to the trouble of installing it, does anyone know if it is still good for Python 2.6.1? Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Why am I getting "[10263 refs]"?

I am running 2.5.2 on Red Hat 5. I am getting many printouts of reference counts, such as [10263 refs] I do not recall ever seeing this until recently. Why am I getting this? Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 4, 5:35 am, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > Quoting "Russ P." : > > > Imagine you own a company, and you decide to lease an office building. > > Would you expect the office doors to have locks on them? Oh, you > > would? Why? You mean you don't "tr

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 3, 7:49 pm, "Rhodri James" wrote: > On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 01:13:32 -, Russ P. wrote: > > On Feb 3, 4:05 pm, "Rhodri James" wrote: > >> I'm very much of the second opinion; it was Russ who did the sudden   > >> volte > >> fa

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 3, 4:14 pm, "Rhodri James" wrote: > On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 05:37:57 -, Russ P. wrote: > > On Feb 2, 7:48 pm, "Rhodri James" wrote: > >> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 02:16:01 -, Russ P. > >> wrote: > >> > Here we go again. If you hav

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 3, 4:05 pm, "Rhodri James" wrote: > On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:45:23 -, Steven D'Aprano > > wrote: > > I find this extreme position is rather incoherent. If I may paraphrase > > the argument as I see it: > > "Enforced data hiding is useless, because it is utterly trivial to bypass > > it,

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 3, 12:45 am, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Another extreme position is that enforced data hiding is useless, that > there is *never* any need for it *at all*, and therefore Python doesn't > need it, there's no reason except stupid PHB's belief in cargo-cult > coding why Python couldn't be used

Re: what IDE is the best to write python?

On Feb 2, 9:09 pm, a...@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote: > You favor bleeding eyes? If I am going to bleed anywhere, I'd actually prefer it be somewhere other than the eyes. Well, maybe not the gonads either. That's a tough call. In any case, I use xemacs, and I've always liked color highlighting. N

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 2, 7:48 pm, "Rhodri James" wrote: > On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 02:16:01 -, Russ P. wrote: > > Here we go again. If you have access to the source code (as you nearly > > always do with Python code), then "breaking the language-enforced data > > hiding"

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 2, 4:35 pm, "Rhodri James" wrote: > This really, really, *really* isn't a tangent. It's the heart of > the matter. You are advocating a change that doesn't fit with > Python's "consenting adults" approach to programming. It's trivial > to enforce hiding using static checking tools if yo

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 2, 2:46 pm, Tim Rowe wrote: > 2009/2/2 Russ P. : > > > Are we supposed > > to believe that the designers of C++, Java, Ada, and Scala are all > > idiots? > > No, we're supposed to believe that the designers of C++, Java, Ada, > and Scala are all desi

Re: is python Object oriented??

On Feb 2, 9:02 am, thmpsn@gmail.com wrote: > On Feb 2, 2:55 am, Stephen Hansen wrote: > > > > This is proven > > > by your statement above, whereby you are driving a user away, > > > simply because the language, in one small aspect, does not > > > give him what he wants, and the tenor of this

Re: Function Application is not Currying

On Jan 28, 1:32 pm, Xah Lee wrote: > Function Application is not Currying > > Xah Lee, 2009-01-28 > > In Jon Harrop's book Ocaml for Scientist > athttp://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/ocaml_for_scientists/chapter1.html > > It says: > >     Currying > >     A curried function is a function w

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 27, 11:40 am, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > I think you still fail to see that what we are objecting is not that the > original writer can "optionally" use the enforced data hiding (which, as > someone pointed out before me, can be done with tools like pylint). The > objection is about the _us

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 26, 6:09 am, Steve Holden wrote: > Quite. Python is a language "for consenting adults". It has perceived > deficiencies for certain software engineering environments. Can we drop > the subject now? This horse was flogged to death long ago, and it's > pointless and cruel to keep on beating

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 26, 1:07 am, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > No. I can change the *team's* code. Please *read*. "team's ownership", > ok ? Or do I have to spell it out loud ? TEAM'S OWNERSHIP. Uh. You get > the message, now ? Team ownership doesn't necessarily mean that you can just change code at will. In

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 25, 7:56 pm, Mark Wooding wrote: > "Russ P." writes: > > [snip stuff I don't disagree with] > > > That makes renaming and refactoring riskier in general in Python than > > in statically typed languages with enforced access restrictions. More > &

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 25, 5:31 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > It seems to me that Russ' latest objection to _private names is not > specific to _private names. The same problem: > > "You will get no warning at all. You will just be inadvertently > creating a new "private" attribute -- and the assignment that you

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 25, 10:04 am, Mark Wooding wrote: > > But what if I want an automatic check to verify that I am using it as > > the author intended? Is that unreasonable? > > You mean that you can't /tell/ whether you typed mumble._seekrit? > You're very strange.  It's kind of hard to do by accident. But

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 25, 10:04 am, Mark Wooding wrote: > "Russ P." writes: > > Calling a one-word change a "fork" is quite a stretch, I'd say. > > I wouldn't.  I've forked a project P if I've made a different version of > it which isn't goin

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 24, 9:54 pm, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > Quoting "Russ P." : > > > Once again, if you have the source code for the library (and the right > > to modify it), how does the "power" lie with the library implementer > > rather than you the user? > &

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 24, 5:09 pm, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > I didn't say "at all". Those were your words, not mine. > I said that it makes no sense that the power lies on _you_ instead of on _my > team_. And, when I said that, I recall we were talking about the python > language, not C. Once again, if you hav

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 24, 4:17 pm, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > Quoting "Russ P." : > > > On Jan 23, 6:36 pm, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > > > > > Makes *no* sense? There's *no* good reason *at all* for the original > > > > author to hide or protect internals?

Re: I'm a python addict !

On Jan 24, 4:03 pm, Robert Kern wrote: > On 2009-01-23 22:25, Aahz wrote: > > > In article, > > Linuxguy123  wrote: > >> I just started using python last week and I'm addicted. > > > Welcome!  Just be aware that excessive Perl-bashing is considered > > somewhat tasteless on this newsgroup, but the

Re: I'm a python addict !

On Jan 23, 6:58 pm, Linuxguy123 wrote: > I will never write another Perl or Bash script again. I still use bash for orchestrating the execution of a series of other scripts and/or programs (including python programs). I know you can do that in python, but I find bash simpler to use for that purp

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 23, 6:36 pm, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > > Makes *no* sense? There's *no* good reason *at all* for the original > > author to hide or protect internals? > > My bad, sorry. > It makes sense... if the original author is an egotist who believes he must > control how I use that library. If the

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 23, 6:21 am, Steve Holden wrote: > I have to say that I thought the example was somewhat bogus. Any > development team that is even slightly concerned about the possibility > of logic bombs in the code will try to mitigate that possibility by the > use of code inspections. Of course they

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 23, 4:57 am, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > Russ P. a écrit : > > As I said before, if you have the source code you can always change > > private attributes to public in a pinch if the language enforces > > encapsulation. > > And then have to maintain a fork.

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 23, 4:30 am, Mark Wooding wrote: > Suppose that you write a Python library module and release it.  I find > that it's /almost/ the right thing for some program of mine, but it > doesn't quite work properly unless I hack about like so... perfect!  I'm > a happy bunny; you've gained a user (

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 22, 9:22 pm, "Russ P." wrote: > code. You can play around with the internals all you want in your own > little world, but as when you are working with a team, you need to > adhere to the interfaces they define (if any). The word "as" should not be there:

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 23, 1:54 am, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > Steven D'Aprano a écrit : > > > > > On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:10:05 +, Mark Wooding wrote: > > >> Steven D'Aprano writes: > > >>> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:12:31 +0100, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > Steven D'Aprano a écrit : > > But if you ha

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 21, 4:04 am, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > Russ P. a écrit : > (snip) > > > Your mistake for being a moron. But it seems to happen regularly, > > doesn't it. How much more of my time are you going to waste, loser? > > Calling people names is certainly

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 22, 6:30 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:10:05 +, Mark Wooding wrote: > > Steven D'Aprano writes: > > >> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:12:31 +0100, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > >>> Steven D'Aprano a écrit : > But if you have free access to attributes, then *everything

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 21, 9:34 am, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > But you keep failing to explay why do you need it to be _part of the standard_ > library (or whatever). Technically, it doesn't need to be. But if someone proposes using particular language for a major safety-critical project, the critical features r

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 11:16 pm, alex23 wrote: > I think this is the main issue we disagree on. I'm happier for Python > to remain lightweight where such features can be easily added on > demand through external libraries. I see no reason why a library > couldn't be as "well-engineered" a solution as an exte

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 11:03 pm, James Mills wrote: > Then -don't- use python. Use some other boring > language. (!...@#$!@#) > > --JamesMills You're emailing me again. Please don't do that. It's bad enough to get death threats in a newsgroup -- I don't need them in my inbox too. Thanks. -- http://mail.pyth

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 10:56 pm, Paul Rubin wrote: > Also, attribute protection is just a tiny aspect.  The high assurance > community really wants as much static verification as it can possibly > get.  Python doesn't really lend itself to that. Which is why I was hoping that P

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 10:24 pm, alex23 wrote: > On Jan 21, 3:20 pm, "Russ P." wrote: > > > But I doubt it will ever come to pass, because it is clear that much > > of the Python community has no clue about what is required for large- > > scale, safety-critical software e

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 10:18 pm, James Mills wrote: > I never did say that python -is- suitable for > all applications or that all languages are suitable > for all purposes. But you did make some rather outlandish statements. I had written this: > I suggest you call Boeing and tell them that encapsulation

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 10:02 pm, alex23 wrote: > Can I comprehend that you don't even have an immediate need and are > instead actively engaging in online onanism? Absolutely. So anyone thinking beyond an "immediate need" is "engaging in online onanism"? Let's see. How long ago did the Python community sta

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 9:07 pm, James Mills wrote: > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Russ P. wrote: > >> My mistake for using "trivial" instead, I didn't realise it would trip > >> up your pedantry. > > > Your mistake for being a moron. But it seems to happen r

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 9:00 pm, alex23 wrote: > On Jan 21, 2:50 pm, "Russ P." wrote: > > > If pylint can check for private access violations, then in principle > > someone could just add a run-time flag that would run pylint as a > > preliminary step to running python.

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 8:26 pm, alex23 wrote: > On Jan 21, 1:18 pm, "Russ P." wrote: > > > Since when is no one is allowed to suggest a potential improvement to > > a product unless they are willing to implement it themselves? Imagine > > what the world would be like if s

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

Rather than waste more time replying to your post, Let me just refer you to an excellent post that you may have missed earlier in this thread by Mr. D'Aprano: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/d684d43b64a6e35a -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 6:47 pm, alex23 wrote: > (And that's not even commenting on the whole "I have no skill in this > area and only second-hand knowledge that it's possible but it's > *obvious* to me that it's trivial and *someone else* should easily be > able to do the work for me!" nature of your post...

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 5:16 pm, Mark Wooding wrote: > "Russ P." writes: > > Rather than waste more time replying to your post, Let me just refer > > you to an excellent post that you may have missed earlier in this > > thread by Mr. D'Aprano: > > I've respond

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 20, 5:33 am, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > On Tuesday 20 January 2009 05:00:34 am Paul Rubin wrote: > > > Luis Zarrabeitia writes: > > > No wonder you can't get Bruno's point. For the second, static checks > > > to prevent accidents, you have pylint. For the first, not only you > > > are using

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 19, 10:33 pm, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > So, Arianne 5's problem had nothing to do with _enforced data hiding_. (Why do > you keep calling it 'encapsulation'?). I keep calling it encapsulation because that is a widely accepted, albeit not universal, definition of encapsulation. Google "enc

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 19, 9:21 pm, Paul Rubin wrote: > Bruno Desthuilliers writes: > > The failure was because a module tested, QA'd and certified within a > > given context (in which it was ok to drop the builtin error handling) > > was reused in a context where it was not ok. And

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 19, 8:32 pm, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > Quoting "Russ P." : > > > On Jan 19, 7:44 pm, wrote: > > > [removing david's message] > > > Why did you email your post to me? Did you really think I wanted to > > see it in my inbox? I assure you I

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 19, 8:39 pm, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > If properties already > let you change from attribute to method without affecting the caller, why do > you > need a property that does nothing? You don't. As I tried to explain in a earlier post (but one that you may not have seen yet), that is appa

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 19, 8:17 pm, Luis Zarrabeitia wrote: > Quoting "Russ P." : > > > > > > > On Jan 19, 6:24 pm, "James Mills" > > wrote: > > > > Python programmers tend to not have a need for > > > properties. Quite honestly they

Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

On Jan 19, 7:09 pm, "Russ P." wrote: > The benefit of automatically converting public data into properties, I > assume, is to relieve the programmer of doing it manually. The > programmer will obviously need to add any functionality when needed, > but he does not need

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