Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-27 Thread Robin Becker
On 20/09/2017 10:54, Chris Angelico wrote: What, you take silicon that someone else created?! ChrisA well I had germanium for flipflops and dekatron tubes with neon for counters never built anything digital with valves though -- Robin Becker -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listi

Re: Even Older Man Yells at Whippersnappers

2017-09-22 Thread Stephan Houben
Op 2017-09-21, Thomas Jollans schreef : > On 2017-09-19 20:21, Stefan Ram wrote: >> I do not use UTF-8 >> > > Why on earth not?! Even *More* Older Man Yells at UTF-8? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Even Older Man Yells at Whippersnappers

2017-09-21 Thread Thomas Jollans
On 2017-09-19 20:21, Stefan Ram wrote: > I do not use UTF-8 > Why on earth not?! -- Thomas Jollans -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-20 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2017-09-20, Gregory Ewing wrote: > Grant Edwards wrote: >> Alternatively, you should design an instruction set and implement it >> using microcode and AM2900 bit-slice processors. > > AMD2900? That's cheating! You should design and build your > own logic gates. After refining the silicon to mak

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-20 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2017-09-19, Christopher Reimer wrote: > Is assembly still a thing today? Depends on what you're doing. If you're working with custom-designed boards, you often have to write some assembly for startup and interrupt stuff. If you're porting an OS kernel to a new architecture, you have to wri

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-20 Thread Ben Bacarisse
Larry Martell writes: > On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Rhodri James wrote: >> >> Eh, my school never 'ad an electronics class, nor a computer neither. Made >> programming a bit tricky; we 'ad to write programs on a form and send 'em >> off to next county. None of this new-fangled VHDL neith

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-20 Thread Gene Heskett
On Wednesday 20 September 2017 10:29:08 Larry Martell wrote: > On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 5:09 AM, Gregory Ewing > > wrote: > > Never mind that fake assembly rubbish, learn a real assembly > > language! And hand-assemble it and toggle it into the front > > panel switches like I did! > > 1979, I was

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-20 Thread justin walters
On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 7:29 AM, Larry Martell wrote: > On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 5:09 AM, Gregory Ewing > wrote: > > > > Never mind that fake assembly rubbish, learn a real assembly > > language! And hand-assemble it and toggle it into the front > > panel switches like I did! > > 1979, I was work

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-20 Thread Larry Martell
On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 5:09 AM, Gregory Ewing wrote: > > Never mind that fake assembly rubbish, learn a real assembly > language! And hand-assemble it and toggle it into the front > panel switches like I did! 1979, I was working at Bausch and Lomb in Rochester NY. We had a 16 bit Data General No

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-20 Thread Gene Heskett
On Wednesday 20 September 2017 05:09:53 Gregory Ewing wrote: > Rhodri James wrote: > > Tsk. You should have learned (a fake simplified) assembler first, > > Never mind that fake assembly rubbish, learn a real assembly > language! And hand-assemble it and toggle it into the front > panel switches

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-20 Thread Steve D'Aprano
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 09:50 pm, Steve D'Aprano wrote: > On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 07:12 pm, Gregory Ewing wrote: > >> Grant Edwards wrote: >>> Alternatively, you should design an instruction set and implement it >>> using microcode and AM2900 bit-slice processors. >> >> AMD2900? That's cheating! You sho

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-20 Thread Steve D'Aprano
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 07:12 pm, Gregory Ewing wrote: > Grant Edwards wrote: >> Alternatively, you should design an instruction set and implement it >> using microcode and AM2900 bit-slice processors. > > AMD2900? That's cheating! You should design and build your > own logic gates. After refining th

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-20 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 7:12 PM, Gregory Ewing wrote: > Grant Edwards wrote: >> >> Alternatively, you should design an instruction set and implement it >> using microcode and AM2900 bit-slice processors. > > > AMD2900? That's cheating! You should design and build your > own logic gates. After refi

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-20 Thread Gregory Ewing
Grant Edwards wrote: Alternatively, you should design an instruction set and implement it using microcode and AM2900 bit-slice processors. AMD2900? That's cheating! You should design and build your own logic gates. After refining the silicon to make the transistors first, of course. -- Greg --

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-20 Thread Gregory Ewing
Rhodri James wrote: Tsk. You should have learned (a fake simplified) assembler first, Never mind that fake assembly rubbish, learn a real assembly language! And hand-assemble it and toggle it into the front panel switches like I did! -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-

Re: Even Older Man Yells at Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread Steve D'Aprano
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 04:48 am, Larry Martell wrote: >>> It was my birthday the other day. People at worked asked how old I >>> was. I replied: >>> >>> ((3**2)+math.sqrt(400))*2 >>> >>> Quite a few people somehow came up with 47. And these are technical people. >> >> *headscratch* Multiple people go

Re: Even Older Man Yells at Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread Gene Heskett
On Tuesday 19 September 2017 13:38:42 ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN wrote: > I recall giving a quiz to my college students sometime back around > the late nineties which had a little bit of arithmetic involved in the > answer. It's been too long ago to still have the exact details, but I > remember a c

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread MRAB
On 2017-09-19 17:46, Larry Martell wrote: On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Rhodri James wrote: Eh, my school never 'ad an electronics class, nor a computer neither. Made programming a bit tricky; we 'ad to write programs on a form and send 'em off to next county. None of this new-fangled VHD

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread MRAB
On 2017-09-19 19:15, Christopher Reimer wrote: On Sep 19, 2017, at 9:09 AM, justin walters wrote: On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2017-09-19, Rhodri James wrote: On 19/09/17 16:00, Stefan Ram wrote: D'Arcy Cain writes: of course, I use calculators and computers b

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread Christopher Reimer
> On Sep 19, 2017, at 9:09 AM, justin walters > wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Grant Edwards > wrote: > >>> On 2017-09-19, Rhodri James wrote: On 19/09/17 16:00, Stefan Ram wrote: D'Arcy Cain writes: > of course, I use calculators and computers but I still understa

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread Larry Martell
On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Rhodri James wrote: > > Eh, my school never 'ad an electronics class, nor a computer neither. Made > programming a bit tricky; we 'ad to write programs on a form and send 'em > off to next county. None of this new-fangled VHDL neither, we 'ad to do our > simulat

Re: Even Older Man Yells at Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread Larry Martell
On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 4:33 AM, Larry Martell > wrote: >> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 1:38 PM, ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN >> wrote: >>> I recall giving a quiz to my college students sometime back around >>> the late nineties which had a littl

Re: Even Older Man Yells at Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread Rhodri James
On 19/09/17 19:33, Larry Martell wrote: On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 1:38 PM, ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN wrote: I recall giving a quiz to my college students sometime back around the late nineties which had a little bit of arithmetic involved in the answer. It's been too long ago to still have the ex

Re: Even Older Man Yells at Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 4:33 AM, Larry Martell wrote: > On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 1:38 PM, ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN wrote: >> I recall giving a quiz to my college students sometime back around >> the late nineties which had a little bit of arithmetic involved in the >> answer. >> It's been too lon

Re: Even Older Man Yells at Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread Larry Martell
On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 1:38 PM, ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN wrote: > I recall giving a quiz to my college students sometime back around > the late nineties which had a little bit of arithmetic involved in the answer. > It's been too long ago to still have the exact details, but I remember > a couple

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread Rhodri James
On 19/09/17 17:52, justin walters wrote: On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 9:12 AM, Rhodri James wrote: Eh, my school never 'ad an electronics class, nor a computer neither. Made programming a bit tricky; we 'ad to write programs on a form and send 'em off to next county. None of this new-fangled VHDL

Re: Even Older Man Yells at Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread ROGER GRAYDON CHRISTMAN
I recall giving a quiz to my college students sometime back around the late nineties which had a little bit of arithmetic involved in the answer. It's been too long ago to still have the exact details, but I remember a couple solutions that would be of the form: 5 + 10 + 1*2 And then the student

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread justin walters
On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 9:12 AM, Rhodri James wrote: > On 19/09/17 16:59, Grant Edwards wrote: > >> On 2017-09-19, Rhodri James wrote: >> >>> On 19/09/17 16:00, Stefan Ram wrote: >>> D'Arcy Cain writes: > of course, I use calculators and computers but I still understand the >

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread Stefan Behnel
Stefan Ram schrieb am 19.09.2017 um 17:00: > D'Arcy Cain writes: >> of course, I use calculators and computers but I still understand the >> theory behind what I am doing. > > I started out programming in BASIC. Today, I use Python, > the BASIC of the 21st century. Python has no GOTO, but wh

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread Rhodri James
On 19/09/17 16:59, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2017-09-19, Rhodri James wrote: On 19/09/17 16:00, Stefan Ram wrote: D'Arcy Cain writes: of course, I use calculators and computers but I still understand the theory behind what I am doing. I started out programming in BASIC. Today, I use Pyth

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread justin walters
On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2017-09-19, Rhodri James wrote: > > On 19/09/17 16:00, Stefan Ram wrote: > >> D'Arcy Cain writes: > >>> of course, I use calculators and computers but I still understand the > >>> theory behind what I am doing. > >> > >>I started ou

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2017-09-19, Rhodri James wrote: > On 19/09/17 16:00, Stefan Ram wrote: >> D'Arcy Cain writes: >>> of course, I use calculators and computers but I still understand the >>> theory behind what I am doing. >> >>I started out programming in BASIC. Today, I use Python, >>the BASIC of the 2

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread justin walters
On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 8:00 AM, Stefan Ram wrote: > D'Arcy Cain writes: > >of course, I use calculators and computers but I still understand the > >theory behind what I am doing. > > I started out programming in BASIC. Today, I use Python, > the BASIC of the 21st century. Python has no GOTO

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread Rhodri James
On 19/09/17 16:00, Stefan Ram wrote: D'Arcy Cain writes: of course, I use calculators and computers but I still understand the theory behind what I am doing. I started out programming in BASIC. Today, I use Python, the BASIC of the 21st century. Python has no GOTO, but when it is exe

Re: Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 12:24 AM, D'Arcy Cain wrote: > On 09/19/2017 03:07 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >>> >>> How relevant is the "people use calculators to do arithmetic" argument >>> today? Okay, so I'm old and cynical, but I know [young] people who >>> don't (can't?) calculate a gratuity witho

Even Older Man Yells At Whippersnappers

2017-09-19 Thread D'Arcy Cain
On 09/19/2017 03:07 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: How relevant is the "people use calculators to do arithmetic" argument today? Okay, so I'm old and cynical, but I know [young] people who don't (can't?) calculate a gratuity without an app or a web page. Which is a form of calculator. People still