Re: Formal-ity and the Church-Turing thesis

2013-10-08 Thread rusi
On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 10:49:11 AM UTC+5:30, zipher wrote: I don't have an infinite stack to implement lambda calculus, but... And then But this is not a useful formalism. Any particular Program implements a DFA, even as it runs on a TM. The issue of whether than TM is finite or not

Re: Formal-ity and the Church-Turing thesis

2013-10-08 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 08/10/2013 06:44, rusi wrote: On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 10:46:50 AM UTC+5:30, Ravi Sahni wrote: With due respect Sir, you saying that Turing machine not a machine? Very confusion Sir!!! Thanks Ravi for the 'due respect' though it is a bit out of place on a list like this :-) With due

Re: Formal-ity and the Church-Turing thesis

2013-10-08 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 10:46:50 +0530, Ravi Sahni wrote: On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:47 AM, rusi rustompm...@gmail.com wrote: I can only say how ironic it sounds to someone who is familiar with the history of our field: Turing was not a computer scientist (the term did not exist then) but a

Re: Formal-ity and the Church-Turing thesis

2013-10-08 Thread Ravi Sahni
On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 10:46:50 +0530, Ravi Sahni wrote: On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:47 AM, rusi rustompm...@gmail.com wrote: I can only say how ironic it sounds to someone who is familiar with the history of our field:

Re: Formal-ity and the Church-Turing thesis

2013-10-08 Thread Ravi Sahni
On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 11:14 AM, rusi rustompm...@gmail.com wrote: To explain at length will be too long and OT (off-topic) for this list. I'll just give you a link and you tell me what you make of it: http://sloan.stanford.edu/mousesite/Secondary/Whorfframe2.html I am trying to read link.

Re: Formal-ity and the Church-Turing thesis

2013-10-08 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 18:16:01 +0530, Ravi Sahni wrote: So in that sense, computers are Turing Machines. Anything a physical computing device can compute, a Turing Machine could too. The converse is not true though: a Turing Machine with infinite tape can compute things where a real physical

Re: Formal-ity and the Church-Turing thesis

2013-10-08 Thread rusi
On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 6:31:21 PM UTC+5:30, Ravi Sahni wrote: On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 11:14 AM, rusi wrote: To explain at length will be too long and OT (off-topic) for this list. I'll just give you a link and you tell me what you make of it:

Re: Formal-ity and the Church-Turing thesis

2013-10-08 Thread Robert Day
On 08/10/13 14:11, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 18:16:01 +0530, Ravi Sahni wrote: Presently Sir, I wish to ask single question: What you mean wave our hands?? It is an idiom very common in Australia. (It may not be well known in the rest of the English-speaking world.) It

Re: Formal-ity and the Church-Turing thesis

2013-10-08 Thread Mark Janssen
I don't have an infinite stack to implement lambda calculus, but... And then But this is not a useful formalism. Any particular Program implements a DFA, even as it runs on a TM. The issue of whether than TM is finite or not can be dismissed because a simple calculation can usually

Re: Formal-ity and the Church-Turing thesis

2013-10-08 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 12:11 AM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 18:16:01 +0530, Ravi Sahni wrote: So in that sense, computers are Turing Machines. Anything a physical computing device can compute, a Turing Machine could too. The converse is not

Formal-ity and the Church-Turing thesis

2013-10-07 Thread rusi
On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 5:54:10 AM UTC+5:30, zipher wrote: Now, one can easily argue that I've gone too far to say no one has understood it (obviously), so it's very little tongue-in-cheek, but really, when one tries to pretend that one model of computation can be substituted for another

Re: Formal-ity and the Church-Turing thesis

2013-10-07 Thread Ravi Sahni
On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:47 AM, rusi rustompm...@gmail.com wrote: I can only say how ironic it sounds to someone who is familiar with the history of our field: Turing was not a computer scientist (the term did not exist then) but a mathematician. And his major contribution was to create a

Re: Formal-ity and the Church-Turing thesis

2013-10-07 Thread Mark Janssen
On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 5:54:10 AM UTC+5:30, zipher wrote: Now, one can easily argue that I've gone too far to say no one has understood it (obviously), so it's very little tongue-in-cheek, but really, when one tries to pretend that one model of computation can be substituted for another

Re: Formal-ity and the Church-Turing thesis

2013-10-07 Thread rusi
On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 10:46:50 AM UTC+5:30, Ravi Sahni wrote: With due respect Sir, you saying that Turing machine not a machine? Very confusion Sir!!! Thanks Ravi for the 'due respect' though it is a bit out of place on a list like this :-) Thanks even more for the 'very confusion'. I