Re: Issues of state

2007-08-10 Thread Steve Holden
greg wrote: Jay Loden wrote: Like most things involving dynamic client side-javascript code and AJAX technology, it's a lot harder than you'd like it to be to solve the problem, but in cases where the Back button is really an issue, it's worth the effort. So if you're willing to put in a

Re: Issues of state

2007-08-10 Thread greg
Jay Loden wrote: Like most things involving dynamic client side-javascript code and AJAX technology, it's a lot harder than you'd like it to be to solve the problem, but in cases where the Back button is really an issue, it's worth the effort. So if you're willing to put in a huge amount of

Re: Issues of state

2007-08-10 Thread Jay Loden
Steve Holden wrote: greg wrote: Jay Loden wrote: Like most things involving dynamic client side-javascript code and AJAX technology, it's a lot harder than you'd like it to be to solve the problem, but in cases where the Back button is really an issue, it's worth the effort. So if you're

Re: Issues of state (was: Tkinter or wxpython?)

2007-08-09 Thread Cameron Laird
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron Laird) writes: Others have answered this at other levels. In elementary terms, there truly is a difference, Paul, and one that's widely reified: a desktop client-server application typically

Re: Issues of state

2007-08-09 Thread Steve Holden
Cameron Laird wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron Laird) writes: Others have answered this at other levels. In elementary terms, there truly is a difference, Paul, and one that's widely reified: a desktop client-server

Re: Issues of state

2007-08-09 Thread Jay Loden
Steve Holden wrote: As far as I'm concerned the major issue with trying to have desktop web apps compete with true windowed applications is the difficulty of maintaining sensible interactions with the interface. AJAX designs have increased the interaction level at the expense of greater

Re: Issues of state (was: Tkinter or wxpython?)

2007-08-08 Thread Paul Rubin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron Laird) writes: application in the web app model (I haven't even touched on the whole stateless HTTP being mapped to a stateful environment issue, or the need to manage the local web server) actually buys you anything. I . Go ahead: touch on

Re: Issues of state (was: Tkinter or wxpython?)

2007-08-08 Thread Hendrik van Rooyen
Paul Rubin http:/...nvalid wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron Laird) writes: application in the web app model (I haven't even touched on the whole stateless HTTP being mapped to a stateful environment issue, or the need to manage the local web server) actually buys you anything. I . Go

Re: Issues of state

2007-08-08 Thread greg
Paul Rubin wrote: I'm not sure what you're getting at in this context. You can write a desktop app where the window system communicates with a gui toolkit through a socket (at least that's how X windows works) An X server connection is *much* more stateful than an HTTP one. It persists

Re: Issues of state

2007-08-08 Thread Paul Rubin
greg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: An X server connection is *much* more stateful than an HTTP one. It persists throughout the entire use session of the application, for one thing, and there is heaps of state being kept on both sides of the connection. There's also a very high communication

Re: Issues of state (was: Tkinter or wxpython?)

2007-08-08 Thread Cameron Laird
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . . . I'm not sure what you're getting at in this context. You can write a desktop app where the window system communicates with a gui toolkit through

Re: Issues of state

2007-08-08 Thread greg
Paul Rubin wrote: The high bandwidth and persistence is not needed for an http connection, which just gets a form submission once in a while. Bandwidth isn't really the main issue. The point is that a lot of state is kept on both ends, making it much easier to implement a rich user interface.

Re: Issues of state (was: Tkinter or wxpython?)

2007-08-08 Thread Paul Rubin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron Laird) writes: Others have answered this at other levels. In elementary terms, there truly is a difference, Paul, and one that's widely reified: a desktop client-server application typically listens through one socket, which therefore constitutes an index of the

Issues of state (was: Tkinter or wxpython?)

2007-08-07 Thread Cameron Laird
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Chris Mellon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . [scores of lines of vigorous debate] . . Moreover, if you *don't* need global access or zero-deployment (zero-deployment is