Re: Python evolution: Unease

Scott David Daniels wrote: If you can wait, the plan for MacEnthon (Python 2.4 on Mac) looks great: Actually, just packages for 2.3 (or 2.3.x for Tiger) as of right now. When someone else packages up 2.4 nicely, I'll start making packages for that, too. http://www.scipy.org/wikis/featurerequ

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Terry Reedy wrote: Even though I currently only have 80 ... I realize that my stinginess > with disk space for more serious stuff is obsolete. A gigabyte would > cover Python + Wxpython + numarray + scipy + pygame + a lot of other stuff. Would it be possible, at least for Windows, to write a Pytho

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Paul Rubin wrote: ... > > GUI/IDEs for Python, > > I remember there was a gud interface for Python but it didn't work > pretty well. There's also IDLE which is pretty crude and flaky. I > think I'll just wait for Pypy deployment before worrying about this > situati

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 23:42:40 -0500, "Terry Reedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Would it be possible, at least for Windows, to write a Python script >>> implementing a 'virtual distribution'? IE, download Python, install it, >>> download next package, install it, etc. -- prefereably table drive

Re: Python evolution: Unease

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alex Martelli) writes: > Paul Rubin wrote: > > Really, I just want to buy a new > > computer, turn it on, and have everything there. That's generally > > impossible without running satanware from Redmond > > The princes of insufficient light from Cupe

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On 06 Jan 2005 18:46:00 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote: >"Terry Reedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Would it be possible, at least for Windows, to write a Python script >> implementing a 'virtual distribution'? IE, download Python, install it, >> download next package, ins

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Terry Reedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > Even though I currently only have 80 megs (about the minimum one can You probably mean 80 gigs. You can get smaller disks, say 30 gigs, in entry-point laptops. But for a few dozen megs I think you'd have to go for solid-state "disks", say USB keys

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Paul Rubin wrote: > Really, I just want to buy a new > computer, turn it on, and have everything there. That's generally > impossible without running satanware from Redmond The princes of insufficient light from Cupertino will in fact be very happy to sell you such com

Re: Python evolution: Unease

adamc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I've not experienced problems installing wxPython on Debian (unstable). > It just *works* out of the box with apt-get. Perhaps this is more of a > problem with the package maintainers? I think the problem I encountered was that the version of WxWidgets currentl

Re: Python evolution: Unease

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2005-01-07, Paul Rubin wrote: > Roman Suzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> I do not like the idea of having stubs. Once I had an experience working with >> CPAN (I tried to install SpamAssassin and it required some specific modules.) >> "Magic" inst

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Roman Suzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I do not like the idea of having stubs. Once I had an experience working with > CPAN (I tried to install SpamAssassin and it required some specific modules.) > "Magic" install shell, provided by Perl, upgraded half the Perl distro, > including newer version

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Fri, 6 Jan 2005, Paul Rubin wrote: >software when I buy a new computer, or at least a new hard drive. I >don't try to migrate system or configuration files. I just install >the OS distro from scratch and migrate my user files. > >> There are several parts to those frustrations. But you are pr

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Alex Martelli wrote: Carlos Ribeiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... wish I could simply plug & play DBAPI modules in a totally seamlessly way. Anyone who tried know how far are we of this dream. If you manage to get there, you'll start fighting against the different dialects of SQL supported by

Re: Python evolution: Unease

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bengt Richter) writes: > I agree 1000% !! Importing a stub should get you an imported stub that > prints info as it imports, so you know its not functional. But I don't even understand why I'd even want to use these stubs, instead of just having the full installation from day 1

Re: Python evolution: Unease

"Paul Rubin" <"http://phr.cx"@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Terry Reedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Would it be possible, at least for Windows, to write a Python script >> implementing a 'virtual distribution'? IE, download Python, install it, >> download next pa

Re: Python evolution: Unease

"Peter Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Terry Reedy wrote: >> Would it be possible, at least for Windows, to write a Python script >> implementing a 'virtual distribution'? IE, download Python, install it, >> download next package, install it, etc. -- pref

Re: Python evolution: Unease

"Terry Reedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Would it be possible, at least for Windows, to write a Python script > implementing a 'virtual distribution'? IE, download Python, install it, > download next package, install it, etc. -- prefereably table driven? I just don't understand why you'd wa

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Bulba! wrote: On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 17:25:08 -0800, Robert Kern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I still think numarray is a good start for this. It handles more than just numbers. And RecArray (an array that has different types in each column, as you seem to require) can be subclassed to add these meth

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Terry Reedy wrote: "Paul Rubin" <"http://phr.cx"@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If I have a 400 gig hard drive, I don't see why I need 99.99% of it empty instead of 99.0% after I do my OS install. Even though I currently only have 80 megs (about the minimum one can cur

Re: Python evolution: Unease

"Paul Rubin" <"http://phr.cx"@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If I have a 400 gig hard drive, I don't see why I need 99.99% of it > empty instead of 99.0% after I do my OS install. Even though I currently only have 80 megs (about the minimum one can currently buy), I'

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Iwan van der Kleyn wrote: But I see little to no efforts from the core python team to address my needs as listed above. They seem mainly to focus on the core attributes and syntax of the language. Very little or no efforts are taken to improve the infrastructure around the language. And then I

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 17:25:08 -0800, Robert Kern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Yes, I know, it can be written by hand. But by this line of logic why >> bother learning VHLL and not just stay with C? >I'm not sure what you mean by "written by hand." I mean the same way as you do mylist.sort() in

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On 05 Jan 2005 23:19:39 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bengt Richter) writes: >> What do you think of automated secure importing/installing from a >> remote server? You know, you try to import something and it imports >> a stub that was included as a batte

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Aahz wrote: In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Maybe a PSF grant would help? I guess this has been considered ... The first three PSF grants were all in some way not directly related to changing the core language. One was for a library, one for improving Jython, and one f

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Alex Martelli wrote: Robert Kern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... I love eric3, but if you're an eclipse fan, look at enthought's "envisage" IDE -- it seems to me that it has superb promise. ... Is it available for download somewhere? Alex is, I think, jumping the gun a bit. Envisage isn't quit

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 22:11:22 +1000, Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Carlos Ribeiro wrote: > > Couldn't a better document-writing interface be implemented? > > Such as: > http://www.python.org/moin/Documentation > > Or AMK's annotatable docs: > http://pydoc.amk.ca/frame.html Sorry, I wa

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Alex Martelli ha scritto: But Alex is right; Envisage does hold a lot of promise. The very concept of an architecture based on a spare skeleton and copious plugins is intrinsically excellent, and I think that by now eclipse has proven it's also practically viable for real-world powerful IDEs/plat

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Robert Kern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > >> I love eric3, but if you're an eclipse fan, look at enthought's > >> "envisage" IDE -- it seems to me that it has superb promise. ... > > Is it available for download somewhere? > > Alex is, I think, jumping the gun a bit. Envisage isn't quite

Re: Python evolution: Unease

[Daniel Bowett] #- Contribute to where on Sourceforge??? Which domentation are #- we talking #- about in general? Speaking of docs. . . I think it would help a great deal if the python.org version-specific documentation pages used the standard documentation front page that actually includes the "

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Carlos Ribeiro wrote: Couldn't a better document-writing interface be implemented? Such as: http://www.python.org/moin/Documentation Or AMK's annotatable docs: http://pydoc.amk.ca/frame.html Something like that? The docs are great, but it took me some time to find them out after searching inside Py

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, John Roth wrote: > I would like to contribute some documentation to Python. > I've got the time, I write quite a bit, etc. I've got fairly > strong opinions about some things that need to be documented, > (such as all the new style class descriptor stuff from 2.2) > and I have

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On 5 Jan 2005 19:31:53 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > John Roth: > > The bottom line is that I'm not going to be writing any > > extensive pieces of Python documentation. My time > > is better spent elsewhere. > > Well, a couple of years ago I realized that some documentatio

Re: Python evolution: Unease

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bengt Richter) writes: > What do you think of automated secure importing/installing from a > remote server? You know, you try to import something and it imports > a stub that was included as a battery-place-holder and that has > basic help info and will give you reasonable optio

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Mike Thompson wrote: Alex Martelli wrote: Carlos Ribeiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... - IDE: Better than what? Than IDLE? Than Eclipse? Than SPE? Than Pythonwin? I would like to seee Eric3, with some polish & opensourced on Win (which means solving the Qt licensing problem). Perhaps someone

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Alex Martelli wrote: Carlos Ribeiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... - IDE: Better than what? Than IDLE? Than Eclipse? Than SPE? Than Pythonwin? I would like to seee Eric3, with some polish & opensourced on Win (which means solving the Qt licensing problem). Perhaps someone could convince Trolltec

Re: Concepts RE: Python evolution: Unease

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 12:15:29 +0300, Roman Suzi wrote: > As for concepts, they are from Generic Programming (by Musser and > Stepanov) and I feel that Python is in position to implement them to the > fullest extent. And IMHO it will be nicer than just Java-like interfaces > or Eiffel's contract app

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Did you used Tkinter and Tix? Most of my problems were there. Of course, I also got in trouble when upgrading to Python 2.2 from 1.5.2 Finally they switched to Python 2.2, but at that moment Python 2.3 came out and I got tired. I switched to Mandrake 1.5 and I am happy with it. Never had any seri

Re: Python evolution: Unease

John Roth: > The bottom line is that I'm not going to be writing any > extensive pieces of Python documentation. My time > is better spent elsewhere. Well, a couple of years ago I realized that some documentation on the MRO was missing. I wrote a document in reST, posted here, and Guido put it on

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On 05 Jan 2005 07:18:25 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote: >Ville Vainio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Paul> I can't parse that. It says two contradictory things. >> Paul> Sentence 2 says that if something essential is not in the >> Paul> (Python) distro then the (Py

Re: Concepts RE: Python evolution: Unease

Roman Suzi wrote: > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, EP wrote: > > > I can try to write a PEP "Generic Programming Concepts". > That would be great. It's so hard to get your head around an abstract concept (a thought, not a programming concept) without a concrete example in some form of syntax. I think tha

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Bulba! wrote: On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 07:37:25 -0600, Skip Montanaro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've never needed numeric stuff either. I just need to do things like: .>>> table.sort(column_name) # that obviously would sort rows of table by the values of column column_name [snip for brevity] Now suppos

Re: Python evolution: Unease

"Daniel Bowett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Thanks, typically how long does it take for any documentation to be >considered and implemented? Right now, rough guess, based on my haphazard collection of knowledge and experience, I would anticipate 1 to 60 days fo

Re: Python evolution: Unease

"John Roth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I would like to contribute some documentation to Python. > I've got the time, I write quite a bit, etc. I've got fairly > strong opinions about some things that need to be documented, > (such as all the new style class desc

Re: Python evolution: Unease

John Roth wrote: > I've been reading this thread and quietly congratulating myself > on staying out of it, but this statement takes the cake. Honestly, I feel the same way about statements of your's like this: > The bottom line is that I'm not going to be writing any > extensive pieces of Python

Re: Python evolution: Unease

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Daniel Bowett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Thanks, typically how long does it take for any documentation to be >considered and implemented? It varies. (I could write a much longer response, but it would boil down to the same thing. ;-) -- Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: Python evolution: Unease

Title: RE: Python evolution: Unease [Daniel Bowett] #- Thanks, typically how long does it take for any documentation to be #- considered and implemented? That depends. If you know that some module is supported by someone in particular, you can asign the bug to him, so it should be

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Batista, Facundo wrote: [Daniel Bowett] #- Contribute to where on Sourceforge??? Which domentation are #- we talking #- about in general? Suppose you're reading Python documentation. Don't know, for example, os.remove(). There you find that a particular parragraph is difficult to understand. You

RE: Python evolution: Unease

Title: RE: Python evolution: Unease [Daniel Bowett] #- Contribute to where on Sourceforge??? Which domentation are #- we talking #- about in general? Suppose you're reading Python documentation. Don't know, for example, os.remove(). There you find that a particular par

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Batista, Facundo wrote: [John Roth] #- I would like to contribute some documentation to Python. #- I've got the time, I write quite a bit, etc. I've got fairly #- strong opinions about some things that need to be documented, #- (such as all the new style class descriptor stuff from 2.2) #- and I ha

RE: Python evolution: Unease

Title: RE: Python evolution: Unease [John Roth] #- I would like to contribute some documentation to Python. #- I've got the time, I write quite a bit, etc. I've got fairly #- strong opinions about some things that need to be documented, #- (such as all the new style class descri

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:25:37 +0100, Alex Martelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Carlos Ribeiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >... > > > - IDE: Better than what? Than IDLE? Than Eclipse? Than SPE? Than > > > Pythonwin? > > > > I would like to seee Eric3, with some polish & opensourced on Win > > (wh

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 07:37:25 -0600, Skip Montanaro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Terry> Numarray has a record array type. If there is not one publicly >Terry> available, perhaps you could write a CSV file to record-array >Terry> slurper and contribute it to the Recipes site or maybe ev

Write some docs already! (was Re: Python evolution: Unease)

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, John Roth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I would like to contribute some documentation to Python. I've got >the time, I write quite a bit, etc. I've got fairly strong opinions >about some things that need to be documented, (such as all the new >style class descriptor

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Skip Montanaro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Okay, then start doing the work necessary to incorporate that stuff into the > core. Get Fredrik to say "okay" to including his Tkinter docs, then do what > it takes to incorporate it. The fact that Fredrik can check those docs in > himself but hasn't

Re: Python evolution: Unease

"Paul Rubin" wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] "alex23" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: It's called "having an opinion". "Good" documentation does its job, if noone else thought it was poorly documented then to them it wasn't. ... In short: grow up and just write th

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Carlos Ribeiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > > - IDE: Better than what? Than IDLE? Than Eclipse? Than SPE? Than Pythonwin? > > I would like to seee Eric3, with some polish & opensourced on Win > (which means solving the Qt licensing problem). Perhaps someone could > convince Trolltech to rel

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Roman Suzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Alex, I think you are +10 for adding interfaces into Python. "Concept" > is more compact word and I am sure it is not used as a name in existing > projects, unlike other words. Actually, I want protocols -- semantics (and pragmatics), too, not just syntax (

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Ville Vainio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Paul> I can't parse that. It says two contradictory things. > Paul> Sentence 2 says that if something essential is not in the > Paul> (Python) distro then the (Python) distro maintainers have > Paul> screwed up. Sentence 1 says it's the F

Re: Python evolution: Unease

> "Paul" == Paul Rubin writes: Paul> Ville Vainio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> To me, this seems to be the job for the Fedora maintainers, not >> Python maintainers. If something essential is not in the distro >> the distro maintainers have screwed

Re: Concepts RE: Python evolution: Unease

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Paul Rubin wrote: >Paul Rubin writes: >> There is nothing in Wikipedia about [Generic programming]. > >Oops: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_programming > >This helps. But I don't see how it's different from what used to >be called polymorphism.

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Alex Martelli wrote: >Dave Brueck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ... >> No, not at all - I'm just trying to better understand what you mean. Words >> like "generic" and "concepts" don't yet have a widely recognized, strict >> definition in the context of programming. If somebod

Re: Concepts RE: Python evolution: Unease

Paul> Oops: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_programming Paul> This helps. But I don't see how it's different from what used to Paul> be called polymorphism. I think of generic programming as polymorphism for statically typed languages. Using the example from the Wikipedia refer

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Terry> Numarray has a record array type. If there is not one publicly Terry> available, perhaps you could write a CSV file to record-array Terry> slurper and contribute it to the Recipes site or maybe even the Terry> CSV module. >> >> -1 on putting such a beast into the C

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Dave Brueck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > No, not at all - I'm just trying to better understand what you mean. Words > like "generic" and "concepts" don't yet have a widely recognized, strict > definition in the context of programming. If somebody has assigned some > specific definition to th

Re: Python evolution: Unease

The Python advocates who claim that Python is well-documented and take exception to when someone say it isn't. Their idea of "it's well-documented" seems to be "if there's parts that you think are poorly documented, feel free to document it". What kind of nonsense is that? I'm not sure which p

Re: Concepts RE: Python evolution: Unease

Paul Rubin writes: > There is nothing in Wikipedia about [Generic programming]. Oops: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_programming This helps. But I don't see how it's different from what used to be called polymorphism. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/p

Re: Concepts RE: Python evolution: Unease

Roman Suzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > As for concepts, they are from Generic Programming (by Musser and > Stepanov) and I feel that Python is in position to implement them to > the fullest extent. And IMHO it will be nicer than just Java-like > interfaces or Eiffel's contract approach. I keep

Re: Python evolution: Unease

"EP" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Python: it tastes so good it makes you hungrier. QOTW -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python evolution: Unease

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Dunno about Fedora, I stopped using Red Hat just because they were > *not* using the standard Python distribution, and the version they > shipped was cripped in various ways. Eh? I used Red Hat for a long while and don't remember their crippling the Python distribution

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Ville Vainio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > To me, this seems to be the job for the Fedora maintainers, not Python > maintainers. If something essential is not in the distro the distro > maintainers have screwed up. I can't parse that. It says two contradictory things. Sentence 2 says that if som

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 19:19:32 -0600, Skip Montanaro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Terry> Numarray has a record array type. If there is not one publicly > Terry> available, perhaps you could write a CSV file to record-array > Terry> slurper and contribute it to the Recipes site or maybe

Concepts RE: Python evolution: Unease

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, EP wrote: >Roman wrote: > >> Maybe OP doesn't yet fully comprehend the ways of Python universe? > > > >> > Don't misinterpret this response. I know it was a rambling. But >> *maybe* you >> > have something to contribute to Python development, even good ideas >> only and >> > no

RE: Python evolution: Unease

Roman wrote: > Maybe OP doesn't yet fully comprehend the ways of Python universe? > > Don't misinterpret this response. I know it was a rambling. But > *maybe* you > > have something to contribute to Python development, even good ideas > only and > > no work. > > > > .Facundo Am I selli

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Paul Rubin: > I'm now running the Python > that was included in Fedora Core 3 GNU/Linux, a complete OS distro on > a DVD-ROM, containing about 3 gigabytes not including sources. And > when a user installs 3 gigabytes of software from a DVD, they can > reasonably expect that they've installed a comp

Re: Python evolution: Unease

> "Paul" == Paul Rubin writes: Paul> inclusion in some bigger distro. E.g., I'm now running the Paul> Python Python into Fedora. So it's up to the Python Paul> maintainers, not the Fedora maintainers or the user, to make Paul> sure that the Python d

Re: Python evolution: Unease

"alex23" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > It's called "having an opinion". "Good" documentation does its job, if > noone else thought it was poorly documented then to them it wasn't. Obviously other people thought Tkinter is poorly documented in the Python distro, since the Python library manual says

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Peter Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The key distinction is that "well-documented" is clearly > a judgment call, a personal opinion, No it's not. If a program has significant modules with complicated public API's and no documentation, it's poorly documented in an absolute sense. A well-doc

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Paul Rubin wrote: > The Python advocates who claim that Python is well-documented and take > exception to when someone say it isn't. Their idea of "it's > well-documented" seems to be "if there's parts that you think are > poorly documented, feel free to document it". What kind of nonsense > is t

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Paul Rubin wrote: Jeremy Bowers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: So, nobody should have to write the docs because they should already be there, but "somebody" should have to write the docs? You need to think more clearly about the pronouns you are slinging around. Who is this "they" that should write th

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Jeremy Bowers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > So, nobody should have to write the docs because they should already be > there, but "somebody" should have to write the docs? > > You need to think more clearly about the pronouns you are slinging around. > Who is this "they" that should write the docs?

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 17:12:04 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote: > Irrelevant, the issue isn't what docs can be written if someone wants to > do it, it's what docs are actually already there > I just see various other free software projects as > trying to live up to higher standards and I think Python sh

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Paul> Skip Montanaro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Start writing (or reorganizing). Folks, this is open source. I'm >> sure by the traffic on the list most people here know how to write. Paul> Irrelevant, the issue isn't what docs can be written if someone Paul> wants to do

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Skip Montanaro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Start writing (or reorganizing). Folks, this is open source. I'm > sure by the traffic on the list most people here know how to write. Irrelevant, the issue isn't what docs can be written if someone wants to do it, it's what docs are actually already

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Terry> Numarray has a record array type. If there is not one publicly Terry> available, perhaps you could write a CSV file to record-array Terry> slurper and contribute it to the Recipes site or maybe even the Terry> CSV module. -1 on putting such a beast into the CSV module, esp

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Terry Reedy wrote: "Bulba!" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message E.g. right now I would kill for a standard, built-in matrix type The array types of Numerical Python (NumPy) and now Numarray are, defacto, Python's standard 1 to n dimensional array types. Once installed, they are as builtin as a

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Dave Brueck wrote: >Roman Suzi wrote: >>>The term "generic programming" is too... er... generic. :) >> Nope. It is not generic. It has it's definition made by the co-author >> of STL - A.Stepanov. And the Boost C++ library (many of us know it as >> Boost Python) standardise on

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Ian Bicking wrote: >Umm... this isn't helpful. "Generic" and "concept" are not terms that >belong to Boost or STL or whatever. They are just words. Coining the >term doesn't mean anyone else knows what it means, nor that anyone >*should* know what they mean -- personally I g

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Roman Suzi wrote: The term "generic programming" is too... er... generic. :) Nope. It is not generic. It has it's definition made by the co-author of STL - A.Stepanov. And the Boost C++ library (many of us know it as Boost Python) standardise on the approach, AFAIK. Ok, "too broad" then; Python al

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Hi Roman, On Wed, Jan 05, 2005 at 00:44 +0300, Roman Suzi wrote: > Python could have honest support of concepts. Everything else will be > available with them. > > That is the whole point that Python supports GP. It is only one step > to do concepts right (and GvR it seems want type-checking int

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Dave Brueck wrote: >> What about generic programming coming into fashion anytime soon? >Roman, I think I've read every single thread in the past year or three >wherein you've brought up generic programming, and I think you'd do well to >choose a new term for the idea you're tr

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Roman Suzi wrote: The term "generic programming" is too... er... generic. :) Nope. It is not generic. It has it's definition made by the co-author of STL - A.Stepanov. And the Boost C++ library (many of us know it as Boost Python) standardise on the approach, AFAIK. As you know, Python already in

Re: Python evolution: Unease

"Bulba!" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > E.g. right now I would kill for a standard, built-in matrix > type The array types of Numerical Python (NumPy) and now Numarray are, defacto, Python's standard 1 to n dimensional array types. Once installed, they are as builtin as anything else.

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Dave Brueck wrote: >Roman Suzi wrote: It may be optional in the sense that the language will accept missing declarations but as soon as the feature is available it will become "mandatory" to use it (peer pressure, workplace practices). >> >> >> What about generi

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Roman Suzi wrote: On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Dave Brueck wrote: It may be optional in the sense that the language will accept missing declarations but as soon as the feature is available it will become "mandatory" to use it (peer pressure, workplace practices). What about generic programming coming into

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Istvan Albert wrote: Doug Holton wrote: application is so important that I expect Python 3000 will have optional type declarations integrated into the argument list." I think that *optional* part of the "optional type declaration" is a myth. It may be optional in the sense that the language will a

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Dave Brueck wrote: >> It may be optional in the sense that the language will >> accept missing declarations but as soon as the feature >> is available it will become "mandatory" to use it >> (peer pressure, workplace practices). What about generic programming coming into fashi

Re: Python design strategy (was Python evolution: Unease)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Viile writes - Type declarations are a feature that might benefit IronPython and Jython more than they would CPython. How much is this part of Guido's decisionmaking process? One major reason to allow optional static typing is to aid specializing compilers. A language cal

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:18:48 -0200, Carlos Ribeiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Let's take one by one: >I'll take only a few ;-) >> - IDE: Better than what? Than IDLE? Than Eclipse? Than SPE? Than Pythonwin? > >I would like to seee Eric3, with some polish & opensourced on Win >(which means sol

Re: Python evolution: Unease

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:15:54 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alex Martelli) wrote: >Also, you keep talking about "the core python team" on the basis, it >would appear, of reading one document by Guido. Have you bothered doing >a MINIMUM of homework, such as, looking at >http://www.amk.ca/diary/archi

Re: Python evolution: Unease

Istvan Albert wrote: Doug Holton wrote: application is so important that I expect Python 3000 will have optional type declarations integrated into the argument list." I think that *optional* part of the "optional type declaration" is a myth. It may be optional in the sense that the language will a

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