Here's a simple rule to resolve the ambiguity. Whoever publishes
first, gets to claim origin of a word and its usage, kind of like a
BDFL. The rest can adapt around that, make up their own word, or be
corrected as the community requires.
You seem to want to squeeze all of computer science
On May 2, 6:32 am, Mark Janssen dreamingforw...@gmail.com wrote:
You seem to want to squeeze all of computer science and programming into a
tidy hierarchy. It won't work, it's not tidy. I strongly suggest you read
more about computer science before forming more opinions. You have a lot to
On Apr 15, 8:48 am, Mark Janssen dreamingforw...@gmail.com wrote:
That all being said, the thrust of this whole effort is to possibly
advance Computer Science and language design, because in-between the
purely concrete object architecture of the imperative programming
languages and the purely
On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 1:35 PM, rusi rustompm...@gmail.com wrote:
If I have a loop:
while i len(a) and a[i] != x:
i++
I need to understand that at the end of the loop:
i = len(a) or a[i] == x
and not
i = len(a) and a[i] == x
nor
i == len(a) or a[i] == x # What if I forgot to
On 04/16/2013 04:38 PM, Mark Janssen wrote:
(Note this contrasts starkly with Java(script), which doesn't seem
to be based on anything -- can anyone clarify where Java actually
comes from?)
Java is not equal in any way with JavaScript. The only thing they share
are semicolons and braces.
On 2013-04-18, Michael Torrie torr...@gmail.com wrote:
On 04/16/2013 04:38 PM, Mark Janssen wrote:
(Note this contrasts starkly with Java(script), which doesn't seem
to be based on anything -- can anyone clarify where Java
actually comes from?)
Java is not equal in any way with JavaScript.
On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 10:37:17 -0600, Michael Torrie wrote:
For the record, JavaScript is what they call a prototype-based
language. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototype-based_programming.
You can emulate an OOP system with a prototype-based language.
Prototype languages *are* OOP. Note that
In article 51709740$0$29977$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com,
Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 10:37:17 -0600, Michael Torrie wrote:
For the record, JavaScript is what they call a prototype-based
language.
One of the nice things about OOP is it means so many different things to
different people. All of whom believe with religious fervor that they
know the true answer.
Here's a simple rule to resolve the ambiguity. Whoever publishes
first, gets to claim origin of a word and its usage, kind of
On 4/18/2013 9:24 PM, Mark Janssen wrote:
One of the nice things about OOP is it means so many different things to
different people. All of whom believe with religious fervor that they
know the true answer.
Here's a simple rule to resolve the ambiguity. Whoever publishes
first, gets to claim
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Ned Batchelder n...@nedbatchelder.com wrote:
You won't solve the problem of confusing, ambiguous, or conflicting
terminology by making up a rule. Object-oriented means subtly different
things to different people.
That's a problem, not a solution.
It turns
On 4/18/2013 10:30 PM, Mark Janssen wrote:
Okay, professor is it, master? What is your provenance anyway?
I'm not a professor, I'm a software engineer. I'm just trying to help.
You've made statements that strike me as half-informed. You're trying to
unify concepts that perhaps can't or
On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 19:30:39 -0700, Mark Janssen wrote:
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Ned Batchelder n...@nedbatchelder.com
wrote:
You won't solve the problem of confusing, ambiguous, or conflicting
terminology by making up a rule. Object-oriented means subtly
different things to
On Apr 19, 3:53 am, Mark Janssen dreamingforw...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 2:53 AM, Moez AbdelGawad moeza...@outlook.com wrote:
I'm not quite sure I understand your question, but I'll give it a shot.
:-)
I'm in this same camp too :)
I am very thankful for the references
The main thing that I notice is that there is a heavy bias in
academia towards mathematical models.
Yeah wonderful observation. Lets clean up!
If I have a loop:
while i len(a) and a[i] != x:
i++
I need to understand that at the end of the loop:
i = len(a) or a[i] == x
and not
i
On Tue, 16 Apr 2013 15:38:29 -0700, Mark Janssen wrote:
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 8:12 AM, Rotwang sg...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File pyshell#2, line 1, in module
class C(type(lambda:
On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Steven D'Aprano
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2013 15:38:29 -0700, Mark Janssen wrote:
(Note this contrasts starkly with Java(script), which doesn't seem
to be based on anything -- can anyone clarify where Java actually comes
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 11:40 PM, Steven D'Aprano
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2013 15:38:29 -0700, Mark Janssen wrote:
snip
(Note this contrasts starkly with Java(script), which doesn't seem
to be based on anything -- can anyone clarify where Java actually
Op 16-04-13 18:49, Terry Jan Reedy schreef:
On 4/16/2013 5:07 AM, Antoon Pardon wrote:
Op 16-04-13 05:17, Terry Jan Reedy schreef:
I will keep the above in mind if I write or review a patch. here are 4
non-subclassable builtin classes. Two are already documented. Bool in
one, forget which
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 21:56:12 -0700, rusi wrote:
On Apr 16, 7:32 am, Steven D'Aprano steve
+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
If I had a say in this, I would vote for the first case, with the
possible exception of documented singleton types like NoneType and
bool.
How is bool a
zipher於 2013年4月15日星期一UTC+8上午11時48分05秒寫道：
Hello,
I'm new to the list and hoping this might be the right place to
introduce something that has provoked a bit of an argument in my
programming community.
I'll state about my opinions about the imperative and
non-imperative part.
If the
On 16.04.13 07:46, Ian Kelly wrote:
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:17 PM, Terry Jan Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
I will keep the above in mind if I write or review a patch. here are 4
non-subclassable builtin classes. Two are already documented. Bool in one,
forget which other. I believe it was
Op 16-04-13 05:17, Terry Jan Reedy schreef:
On 4/15/2013 10:32 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 20:52:58 -0400, Terry Jan Reedy wrote:
Some builtin classes cannot be subclassed. There is an issue to
document
which better. That does not mean that it is not a class.
I think it
On 4/16/2013 5:07 AM, Antoon Pardon wrote:
Op 16-04-13 05:17, Terry Jan Reedy schreef:
On 4/15/2013 10:32 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 20:52:58 -0400, Terry Jan Reedy wrote:
I will keep the above in mind if I write or review a patch. here are 4
non-subclassable builtin
On 04/16/2013 01:25 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
On 16.04.13 07:46, Ian Kelly wrote:
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:17 PM, Terry Jan Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
I will keep the above in mind if I write or review a patch. here are 4
non-subclassable builtin classes. Two are already documented. Bool
On 4/16/2013 1:29 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 04/16/2013 01:25 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
On 16.04.13 07:46, Ian Kelly wrote:
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:17 PM, Terry Jan Reedy tjre...@udel.edu
wrote:
I will keep the above in mind if I write or review a patch. here are 4
non-subclassable
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
The four are bool, NoneType, slice and ellipsis, I believe.
-- import builtins
-- for n in dir(builtins):
... if type(getattr(builtins, n)) is type:
... try:
... t = type(n, (getattr(builtins,
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 8:12 AM, Rotwang sg...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File pyshell#2, line 1, in module
class C(type(lambda: None)):
TypeError: type 'function' is not an acceptable
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:38 PM, Mark Janssen dreamingforw...@gmail.com wrote:
I think his point remains valid, from a theoretical pov. Python
prides itself on the idea of first-class functions and such, but
unlike the world of lambda calculus, this selling point is a bit
invalid. Because
On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 20:48:05 -0700, Mark Janssen wrote:
Hello,
I'm new to the list and hoping this might be the right place to
introduce something that has provoked a bit of an argument in my
programming community.
I'm from the Python programming community. Python is an interpreted
Op 15-04-13 12:11, Steven D'Aprano schreef:
Python's data model has always been 100% object oriented. Prior to the
class/type unification, it simply had *two distinct* implementations of
objects: types, which were written in C, and classes, which were written
in Python.
After unification, the
On 04/15/2013 01:43 PM, Antoon Pardon wrote:
Op 15-04-13 12:11, Steven D'Aprano schreef:
Python's data model has always been 100% object oriented. Prior to the
class/type unification, it simply had *two distinct* implementations of
objects: types, which were written in C, and classes, which
On 15/04/2013 22:13, Dave Angel wrote:
On 04/15/2013 01:43 PM, Antoon Pardon wrote:
[...]
I had gotten my hopes up after reading this but then I tried:
$ python3
Python 3.2.3 (default, Feb 20 2013, 17:02:41)
[GCC 4.7.2] on linux2
Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information.
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 8:12 AM, Rotwang sg...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File pyshell#2, line 1, in module
class C(type(lambda: None)):
TypeError: type 'function' is not an acceptable base type
and I don't think that FunctionType would be considered an
On 15/04/2013 23:32, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 8:12 AM, Rotwang sg...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File pyshell#2, line 1, in module
class C(type(lambda: None)):
TypeError: type 'function' is not an acceptable base type
and I don't think
On 4/15/2013 1:43 PM, Antoon Pardon wrote:
$ python3
Python 3.2.3 (default, Feb 20 2013, 17:02:41)
[GCC 4.7.2] on linux2
Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information.
class vslice (slice):
... pass
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
File stdin, line 1, in module
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 20:52:58 -0400, Terry Jan Reedy wrote:
On 4/15/2013 1:43 PM, Antoon Pardon wrote:
$ python3
Python 3.2.3 (default, Feb 20 2013, 17:02:41) [GCC 4.7.2] on linux2
Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information.
class vslice (slice):
... pass
...
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 19:43:32 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote:
Op 15-04-13 12:11, Steven D'Aprano schreef:
Python's data model has always been 100% object oriented. Prior to the
class/type unification, it simply had *two distinct* implementations
of objects: types, which were written in C, and
On 4/15/2013 10:32 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 20:52:58 -0400, Terry Jan Reedy wrote:
Some builtin classes cannot be subclassed. There is an issue to document
which better. That does not mean that it is not a class.
I think it is also important to document whether that
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:17 PM, Terry Jan Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
I will keep the above in mind if I write or review a patch. here are 4
non-subclassable builtin classes. Two are already documented. Bool in one,
forget which other. I believe it was recently decided to leave the other two
On Apr 16, 7:32 am, Steven D'Aprano steve
+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
If I had a say in this, I would vote for the first case, with the
possible exception of documented singleton types like NoneType and bool.
How is bool a singleton type?
--
Note: cross-posting to mailing lists does not work well. Hence the reply
only to python-list and the gmane mirror.
On 4/14/2013 11:48 PM, Mark Janssen wrote:
Python is an interpreted language.
I consider this a useless or even deceptive statement. Python is an
object-based algorithm
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