Re: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
Diez B. Roggisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That particular implementation used 3 or 4 tag-bits. Of course you are right that nowadays python won't notice the difference, as larger nums get implicitely converted to a suitable representation. But then the efficiency goes away... Basically I

Re: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (fwiw, switching to tagging in CPython would break most about everything. might as well start over, and nobody's likely to do that to speed up integer- dominated programs a little...) Yeah, a change of that magnitude in CPython would be madness, but the

Re: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Until someone does the experiment this stuff is bound to be speculation (what's that saying about premature optimization?). 40 years of practical Lisp implementation efforts and around the globe and hundreds of published papers on the subject might not be

Re: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
Scott David Daniels [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Current speeds are due to deep pipelines, and a conditional in the INCREF code would blow a pipeline. I think most of the time, branch prediction will prevent the cache flush. Anyway, with consed integers, there's still going to be a conditional or

Re: Let My Terminal Go

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
Jorgen Grahn [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It depends on what you mean by expensive -- web servers can fork for each HTTP request they get, in real-world scenarios, and get away with it. This is OS dependent. Forking on Windows is much more expensive than forking on Linux. --

Re: Let My Terminal Go

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
Grant Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Since the NT kernel is descended from VMS, I'm not surprised that a fork is expensive. Apache 2.x supports concurrency via threading as an alternative to forking, basically in order to get acceptable performance on Windows. --

Re: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
Scott David Daniels [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think most of the time, branch prediction will prevent the cache flush. But, branch prediction is usually a compiler thing, based on code that is, in this case, a spot in the interpreter that is actually taking both sides of the branch quite

Re: 1-liner to iterate over infinite sequence of integers?

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: itertools.count() # 0-based itertools.count(1) # 1-based gives you an iterator that generates all Python integers (the behaviour when it exceeds sys.maxint doesn't seem to be defined, but 2.4 wraps around to -(sys.maxint+1)) Ugh, I'd say

Re: UI toolkits for Python

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
Kenneth McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1) Which plays best with Python? Ideally, it would already have some higher-level python libraries to hide the grotty stuff that is almost never needed when actually implementing apps. 2) Reliability of each? 3) Useful external libraries for

Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
Brendan Guild [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This was a problem, but modern browsers implement Javascript in such a way that it requires permission from the user before it will open a new window. Not really true, it's easy to defeat that, and also generally the pop-up blocker only blocks

Re: Send password over TCP connection

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
dcrespo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ok, I understand... What about the MD5? Is it good enough to use when saving a hashed password on the database? For example: user_input = raw_input(Type your password: ) password = md5.md5(user_input).hexdigest() SavePasswordInDatabase(user,password) The

Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gordon Burditt) writes: I'm not sure that you can disable Javascript from reading cookies from other sites while allowing Javascript to read cookies from the site it came from on all browsers. Javascript is not supposed to be able to read cross-site cookies. It's bad but

Re: Send password over TCP connection

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
dcrespo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can you say what your application is? That will help figure out how far you need to go to protect these passwords, and what alternatives might be possible. Sure, no problem (see this on fixed text): Well, I mean, what kind of data is it? Sports chat?

Re: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
Diez B. Roggisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, that would describe just about every cpu for the past 30 years that's a plausible Python target. No. The later 68K (68020) could address on odd adresses. And AFAIK all x86 can because of their 8080 stemming. Yes, could but not does in terms

Re: Send password over TCP connection

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
dcrespo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Important data like diplomatic traffic. Must be accessible from all Clients inmediatly a client publish his data. Its an online system. OK, if it's actual diplomatic traffic you need to work with your government about criteria. If you're in the US, you'd get

Re: 1-liner to iterate over infinite sequence of integers?

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
Steven D'Aprano [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Others have given answers involving xrange() and itertools.count(), but I thought I'd just mention that in my opinion, what you have written is pretty elegant and concise and best of all, doesn't have the same problems xrange() and itertools.count()

Re: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability

2005-10-13 Thread Paul Rubin
Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And this presumes an architecture which byte-addresses and only uses aligned addresses. He was talking about the arachiteecture, for Pete's sake, not a compiler. Yeah, I noticed that, I could have been pedantic about it but chose to just describe how

Re: Python's garbage collection was Re: Python reliability

2005-10-14 Thread Paul Rubin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Folks, most common GC schemes have been tried as experiments over the years. None have succeeeded, for various reasons. I think one of the main reasons is that Python has to play nice with external libraries, many of which weren't written with GC beyond malloc and

Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry

2005-10-14 Thread Paul Rubin
Tim Tyler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are there any examples of HTML email causing security problems - outside of Microsoft's software? There was a pretty good one that went something like Click this link to download latest security patch! a href=http://www.mxx.com.Microsoft

Re: Using SRP on TCPServer module

2005-10-14 Thread Paul Rubin
dcrespo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now that you know what I have, I would like to add SRP functionality to the validation of each new connection. What I need to add to my code to get SRP to work? I don't know where to start. The docs are poor. I don't know of a Python SRP module that only does

Re: Function to execute only once

2005-10-14 Thread Paul Rubin
PyPK [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: now I want execute() function to get executed only once. That is the first time it is accessed. so taht when funcc2 access the execute fn it should have same values as when it is called from func1. There's nothing built into Python for that. You have to program

Re: Function to execute only once

2005-10-14 Thread Paul Rubin
snoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Also why is it if I set tmp as a global and don't pass it as a paremeter to the various functions as per the OP that I get an UnboundLocalError: local variable 'tmp' referenced before assignment? If you don't declare it as a global, and if you try to assign a

Re: deleting a parameter's name as it is passed to a function

2005-10-14 Thread Paul Rubin
Amir Michail [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But dosomestuff can get rid of its reference before it returns (perhaps it has a lot more to do before it returns and so you would want to garbage collect the parameter object as soon as possible). That would be so rare and weird that your best bet is to

Re: MD5 module Pythonicity

2005-10-15 Thread Paul Rubin
Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Forcing every digest module to add code to cater for just one of many use cases is most likely a waste of time. here's the hash API specification, btw: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0247.html I agree with you and Mike that a file checksum

Re: Problem splitting a string

2005-10-15 Thread Paul Rubin
Anthony Liu [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I do I split the string by using both ' ' and '_' as the delimiters at once? Use re.split. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: MD5 module Pythonicity

2005-10-15 Thread Paul Rubin
Leandro Lameiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Maybe I've got a distorted impression about the importance of this. As I'm not an experienced programmer, I'd probably trust more in your impressions than mine. :) Good call. :) I mean, if we all agreed that it is a common thing, a patch for this

Re: Comparing lists - somewhat OT, but still ...

2005-10-16 Thread Paul Rubin
Ognen Duzlevski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Optimizations have a tendency to make a complete mess of Big O calculations, usually for the better. How does this support your theory that Big O is a reliable predictor of program speed? There are many things that you cannot predict, however if

Re: A Tree class, my $0.02 contribution to the python community.

2005-10-16 Thread Paul Rubin
Antoon Pardon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The underlying implementation is an AVL balanced binary tree with inorder threading. Dan Bernstein argues for switching from hash tables to crit-bit trees (a/k/a Patricia trees), because of their guaranteed worst case performance. He also claims:

Re: Comparing lists - somewhat OT, but still ...

2005-10-16 Thread Paul Rubin
Steven D'Aprano [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But if you are unlikely to discover this worst case behaviour by experimentation, you are equally unlikely to discover it in day to day usage. Yes, that's the whole point. Since you won't discover it by experimentation and you won't discover it by day

Re: How to get a raised exception from other thread

2005-10-17 Thread Paul Rubin
Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Otherwise you have to write the worker thread to be capable of handling asynchronous signals, which is a notoriously difficult task. Doing it properly needs a language extension. http://www.cs.williams.edu/~freund/papers/02-lwl2.ps --

Re: ANN: Leo 4.4a1 released

2005-10-17 Thread Paul Rubin
Edward K. Ream [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: - Support for all frequently-used Emacs commands, including cursor and screen movement, basic character, word and paragraph manipulation, and commands to manipulate buffers, the kill ring, regions and rectangles. Do you support re-search-backward

Re: UI toolkits for Python

2005-10-17 Thread Paul Rubin
Michael Ekstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 2) Keybindings in a web application Not sure here, but JavaScript may be able to do something to accomplish some of this. A web-delivered XUL app can definitely do this. But that's pushing the limits of what can be considered a web application.

Re: UI toolkits for Python

2005-10-17 Thread Paul Rubin
Torsten Bronger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Because everybody is capable of running a JS engine, even on computers on which you don't have rights to install something. I don't think using JS so heavily without a compelling reason is really in the WWW spirit. Lots of browsers don't have JS. And

Re: Comparing lists

2005-10-17 Thread Paul Rubin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alex Martelli) writes: implementation of the components one's considering! Rough ideas of *EXPECTED* run-times (big-Theta) for various subcomponents one is sketching are *MUCH* more interesting and important than asymptotic worst-case for amounts of input tending to

Re: UI toolkits for Python

2005-10-19 Thread Paul Rubin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alex Martelli) writes: You mean like google? Until recently, they're an outstanding example of doing things right, and providing functionality that degrades gracefully as the clients capabilities go down. I'm not sure what you mean by until recently in this context.

Re: Checking for a full house

2005-05-26 Thread Paul Rubin
Raymond Hettinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your use case for gathering roll statistics probably needs a more general solution: hands = { (1,1,1,1,1): 'nothing', (1,1,1,2): 'one pair', (1,2,2): 'two pair', (1,1,3): 'three of a kind', (2,3): 'full house', (1,4):

Re: urllib2 and SSL

2005-05-26 Thread Paul Rubin
rbt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks for the tip... how *does* all of the other Win32 apps handle SSl w/o installing OpenSSL? Do they bundle it and only use it for themselves? That seems foolish. Mozilla has its own SSL stack. IE uses one built into wininet, I think. --

Re: Q: ...Learning with Python ...a property that addition and multiplication have...

2005-05-26 Thread Paul Rubin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: question is, Can you think of a property that addition and multiplication have that string concatenation and repetition do not? I thought it was the commutative property but string*3 is equivalent to 3*string. Any ideas? Um, string concatenation is not commutative.

Re: Encryption with Python?

2005-05-26 Thread Paul Rubin
Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That's all. I see you took up the challenge and indirectly replied to my last question, and in good spirit I say you earned a little respect from me, at least for standing up to your words. Now I hope no-one gives a try to your data (for

Re: What are OOP's Jargons and Complexities?

2005-05-26 Thread Paul Rubin
Roy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I used to have a bunch of comp sci questions I would ask interview victims. One of them was what does it mean when a language is strongly typed? I once had somebody tell me it meant the language had long variable names, and thus took a lot of typing.

Re: More Rewrite Request Within SocketServer?

2005-05-27 Thread Paul Rubin
John Abel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK, I'm guessing what I was after ( see below ) isn't possible. Does anyone know of an easy way of having verify_request inform the request handler of certain events, say client is unauthorised? I thought of having it set a flag, and referring to it from

Re: More Rewrite Request Within SocketServer?

2005-05-27 Thread Paul Rubin
John Abel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Unfortunately not. verify_request is called before process_request which launches the thread ( in the ThreadingMixIn version ). Unless I passed the flag as an argument to the thread, and then had it reset. Hm, worth thinking about, If verify_request

Re: write to the same file from multiple processes at the same time?

2005-05-27 Thread Paul Rubin
gabor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: so, how does one synchronizes several processes in python? first idea was that the cgi will create a new temp file every time, and at the end of the stress-test, i'll collect the content of all those files. but that seems as a stupid way to do it :( There was

Re: write to the same file from multiple processes at the same time?

2005-05-27 Thread Paul Rubin
Peter Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The OP was probably on the right track when he suggested that things like SQLite (conveniently wrapped with PySQLite) had already solved this problem. But they haven't. They depend on messy things like server processes constantly running, which goes

Re: write to the same file from multiple processes at the same time?

2005-05-27 Thread Paul Rubin
Jp Calderone [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But they haven't. They depend on messy things like server processes constantly running, which goes against the idea of a cgi that only runs when someone calls it. SQLite is an in-process dbm. http://www.sqlite.org/faq.html#q7 (7) Can multiple

Re: cpu usage limit

2005-05-27 Thread Paul Rubin
mmf [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How can I make sure that a Python process does not use more that 30% of the CPU at any time. I only want that the process never uses more, but I don't want the process being killed when it reaches the limit (like it can be done with resource module). Can you

Re: write to the same file from multiple processes at the same time?

2005-05-27 Thread Paul Rubin
Peter Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And PySQLite conveniently wraps the relevant calls with retries when the database is locked by the writing process, making it roughly a no-brainer to use SQLite databases as nice simple log files where you're trying to write from multiple CGI processes

Re: write to the same file from multiple processes at the same time?

2005-05-27 Thread Paul Rubin
Jp Calderone [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh, ok. But what kind of locks does it use? It doesn't really matter, does it? Huh? Sure, if there's some simple way to accomplish the locking, the OP's act can do the same thing without SQlite's complexity. I'm sure the locking mechanisms it uses

Re: write to the same file from multiple processes at the same time?

2005-05-27 Thread Paul Rubin
Peter Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think the FAQ can answer that better than I can, since I'm not sure whether you're asking about any low-level (OS) locks it might use or higher-level (e.g. database-level locking) that it might use. In summary, however, at the database level it

Re: Help with choice of suitable Architecture

2005-05-28 Thread Paul Rubin
Rob Cowie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have been asked (as part of an MSc project) to create a server based planner for a research group at my uni. It will have a web interface to interact with data stored in an XML document. Why not just a regular database? Basic functionality is required

Re: Help with choice of suitable Architecture

2005-05-28 Thread Paul Rubin
Rob Cowie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Paul. I agree that client-side scripting increases the level of compexity, but did it really go out of fashion with pop-ups? It seems to be just getting started. Pop-ups and scripting-related security holes are why the cool kids all surf with Javascript

Re: Help with Queues and Threading

2005-06-01 Thread Paul Rubin
Ognjen Bezanov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But if I run the loop directly (i.e. not using threads, just calling the function) it works just fine. What could the problem be? You have to say args=(cmddata,) with the comma inside the parens, to make a seqence instead of a parenthesized expression.

Re: Python as client-side browser script language

2005-06-01 Thread Paul Rubin
Magnus Lycka [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Of course, one might suggest that it's the task of the browser, and not of the scripting language, to provide a safe sandbox where scripts can mess around and without causing havoc on your computer. Such a system in the browser could be used to grant

Re: BUG pythonw vs subprocess

2005-06-01 Thread Paul Rubin
I thought pythonw didn't provide a console and so it could be that stdin and stdout aren't connected to anything. Popen therefore doesn't make sense. You have to use sockets or something. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: creating a hex value

2005-06-01 Thread Paul Rubin
David Bear [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm not seeing it in my python essential ref. how can I do delim = 0x15 delim = chr(0x15) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: anygui,anydb, any opinions?

2005-06-01 Thread Paul Rubin
Thomas Bartkus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Given that for the most part nobody in the Python community has a handle on any other Python person's paycheck, it's unlikely that enough of the community can be convinced that a VB-like development environment would be a killer app for Python and

Re: Pressing A Webpage Button

2005-06-01 Thread Paul Rubin
Grant Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I presume you can figure out how to open the URL instead of printing it? Ah, never mind. That doesn't work. Google somehow detects you're not sending the query from a browser and bonks you. Try setting the User-agent: header to one that looks like

Re: Python as client-side browser script language

2005-06-01 Thread Paul Rubin
Greg Ewing [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If the DOM objects are implemented as built-in Python types, there shouldn't be any difficulty with that. Python objects have complete control over which attributes can be read or written by Python code. No, they don't. See the sorry history of the

Re: dictionaries and threads

2005-06-01 Thread Paul Rubin
Gary Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As far as I can tell, if the Python bytecodes that cause dictionary modifications are atomic, then there should be no problem. But I don't know that they are because I haven't looked at the bytecodes. Depending on behavior like that is asking for

Re: pickle alternative

2005-06-01 Thread Paul Rubin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It appears to work faster than pickle, however, the decode process is much slower (5x) than the encode process. Has anyone got any tips on ways I might speed this up? I think you should implement it as a C extension and/or write a PEP. This has been an unfilled need

Re: Software licenses and releasing Python programs for review

2005-06-02 Thread Paul Rubin
poisondart [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If this thread has shown anything it is I'm a bit green with respect to software licenses, but the other thing is that I consider myself as an isolated case and I wanted to know if there were others who wanted the same thing as me. You're going through the

thread vs GC

2005-06-02 Thread Paul Rubin
Another of those how can I kill a thread questions. Let's say I have an app that needs a random prime number for something every now and then, based on user interaction. I have a function makeprime() which creates such a prime, but it's pretty slow, so I don't want to wait for it when the user

Re: provide 3rd party lib or not... philosophical check

2005-06-03 Thread Paul Rubin
Maurice LING [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just a philosophical check here. When a program is distributed, is it more appropriate to provide as much of the required 3rd party libraries, like SOAPpy, PLY etc etc, in the distribution itself or it is the installer's onus to get that part done? If

Re: Opposite of splitting?

2005-06-05 Thread Paul Rubin
Jan Danielsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have a list of integers: q = [ 1, 2, 4, 7, 9 ] which I would like to convert to a string: 1,2,4,7,9 s = ','.join([str(n) for n in q]) Alternatively, just repr(q) gives you '[1, 2, 4, 7, 9]' (with the brackets and spaces). --

Re: For review: PEP 343: Anonymous Block Redux and GeneratorEnhancements

2005-06-05 Thread Paul Rubin
Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Be sure to read the referenced PEPs (and the ones referenced from them) - they contain a lot of history. Also read PEP 346 for a competing PEP to PEPs 340 and 343 that gradually converged to PEP 343 - most importantly, it contains the

Re: random module question

2005-06-05 Thread Paul Rubin
Roose [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can I rely on the random.py module to produce the same series of numbers for future/past versions of Python, given the same seed? Can I rely on it across different architectures and operating systems? I looked at the docs and couldn't find this stated

Re: GUI builders considered harmful (Was: anygui, anydb, any opinions?)

2005-06-05 Thread Paul Rubin
Chris Lambacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think you need to step out of the age of Motif and MFCs and look at what modern toolkits and GUI designers have to offer before you start in on a rant. Yeah, pretty much every fancy web page designer these days uses graphic tools like Dreamweaver or

Re: Tkinter: How can I update an image display?

2005-06-05 Thread Paul Rubin
Terry Carroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I trimmed it down to a basic app indicating the problem and the code is at the end of this message. It should display the three listed sample images, one after another. The thing is, if I uncomment the raw_input call, it works. But I don't want to

Re: Destructive Windows Script

2005-06-05 Thread Paul Rubin
rbt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks for the opinion... I don't do malware. Just interested in speeding up file wiping (if possible) for old computers that will be auctioned. The boot programs that you allude to (killdisk, autoclave) work well, but are slow and tedious. Yes, you have to

Re: easiest way to split a list into evenly divisble smaller lists, and assign them to variables?

2005-06-06 Thread Paul Rubin
flamesrock [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lets say I have a list containing 12, 13, 23 or however many entries. What I want is the greatest number of lists evenly divisible by a certain number, and for those lists to be assigned to variables. You almost certainly don't want to do that. That's

Re: random module question

2005-06-06 Thread Paul Rubin
Raymond Hettinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can I rely on the random.py module to produce the same series of numbers for future/past versions of Python, given the same seed? The answer is a qualified Yes. While the core generator (currently the Mersenne Twister algorithm) is subject to

Re: Fast text display?

2005-06-08 Thread Paul Rubin
Christopher Subich [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The third requirement is cross-platform-osity; if you won't hold it against me I'll tell you that I'm developing under Cygwin in Win2k, but I'd really like it if the app could run under 'nix and mac-osx also. I'm pretty open to any graphical

Re: Fast text display?

2005-06-08 Thread Paul Rubin
Christopher Subich [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Use tkinter if you care about cross-platform operation. Everything else requires downloading and installing separate toolkits. Oh, the downloading and installing isn't a big deal. If in the far-flung future anyone else uses this program,

Re: Fast text display?

2005-06-08 Thread Paul Rubin
Christopher Subich [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fair enough. At the moment, the expected user base for the program is exactly one, but making it easy has its advantages. Since you've obviously used it yourself, if I end up going with tkinter, are there any performance gotchas on text rendering

Re: Fast text display?

2005-06-08 Thread Paul Rubin
Riccardo Galli [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Using tkinter doesn't need downloading and installing only in Windows. In *nix is not so common to have tcl/tk installed (and probably in Mac too) Hmm, in the Linux distros that I'm used to, tcl/tk is preinstalled. I had the impression that it was

Re: Fast text display?

2005-06-08 Thread Paul Rubin
Jp Calderone [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What does included with Python mean anyway? Different packagers make different decisions. I mean included with the source distro from python.org. This applies to other libraries as well, of course. Installing wxPython on Debian is a 5 second ordeal.

Re: Fast text display?

2005-06-09 Thread Paul Rubin
Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I mean included with the source distro from python.org. Well, it includes Tkinter, but it doesn't include tcl/tk. So you get a non-functional version of Tkinter if you install from those sources. Not very useful. OK. But I found on RH9 and FC3, as well

Re: Fast text display?

2005-06-09 Thread Paul Rubin
Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK. But I found on RH9 and FC3, as well as on Windows, that tcl/tk was preinstalled (or included with Python). I didn't find wxwidgets preinstalled on any of those systems. I think posts are getting crossed here. The python sources you get from

Re: Python Developers Handbook

2005-06-09 Thread Paul Rubin
wooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am somewhat nonplussed that the opportunity to buy a Python book cheaply is off limits for this NG. There have been alot of hits and as there are very few Python books listed on Ebay I presume they came from here. One really annoying thing is when the

Re: Dealing with marketing types...

2005-06-11 Thread Paul Rubin
Terry Reedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://naeblis.cx/rtomayko/2005/05/28/ibm-poop-heads which is probably what you meant. Thanks for digging this up. It solidified my understanding of why LAMP. That article makes a lot of bogus claims and is full of hype. LAMP is a nice way to throw a

Re: Dealing with marketing types...

2005-06-11 Thread Paul Rubin
Andrew Dalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My question to you is - what is something big? I've not been on any project for which LAMP can't be used, and nor do I expect to be. After all, there's only about 100,000 people in the world who might possibly interested using my software. (Well, the

Re: Dealing with marketing types...

2005-06-12 Thread Paul Rubin
Andrew Dalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I know little about it, though I read at http://goathack.livejournal.org/docs.html ] LiveJournal source is lots of Perl mixed up with lots of MySQL I found more details at http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/001866.html It's a bunch of things -

Re: Scaling down (was Re: Dealing with marketing types...)

2005-06-12 Thread Paul Rubin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aahz) writes: So what? I think you're missing the real point of the article: using LAMP scales *DOWN* in a way that enterprise systems don't. Getting your first prototype up and running is far more important than sheer scalability, There comes a day when your first

Re: How to test if an object IS another object?

2005-06-12 Thread Paul Rubin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: foo = 3 bar = 3 clearly foo and bar have the same value but they are different objects aren't they? No, they're the same object. Now try it with 300 instead of 3 ;-). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Is Python Suitable for Large Find Replace Operations?

2005-06-13 Thread Paul Rubin
rbt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now, management would like the IT guys to go thru the old data and replace as many SSNs with the new ID numbers as possible. You have a tab delimited txt file that maps the SSNs to the new ID numbers. There are 500,000 of these number pairs. What is the most

Re: smtplib and TLS

2005-06-17 Thread Paul Rubin
Matthias Kluwe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The server accepts and delivers my messages, but the last command raises socket.sslerror: (8, 'EOF occurred in violation of protocol') Did I miss something? Any hint is welcome. Looks like the module didn't send an TLS Close Notify message before

Re: ISO authoritative Python ref

2005-06-17 Thread Paul Rubin
bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have to learn Python in a hurry. I learn fastest by reading the specs/reference manual, or something like it (e.g. C: A Reference Manual, by Harbison and Steel). Is there a Python book that fits this description? The official reference manual is at:

Re: extreme newbie

2005-06-17 Thread Paul Rubin
cpunerd4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I stumbled onto the python language by chance and it looks like a great language. Although from what I've read so far (which isn't much) I've guessed that python is purely an interpreted language unless its compiled into another language (ie. it needs

Re: functions with unlimeted variable arguments...

2005-06-18 Thread Paul Rubin
Xah Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: but are there other solutions? Xah Geez man, haven't you been around long enough to read the manual? def f(*a): return a -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: smtplib and TLS

2005-06-18 Thread Paul Rubin
Matthias Kluwe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hmm. I tried server.sock.realsock.shutdown(2) before server.quit() with the result of I don't think that's exactly what you want. You need to send a specific TLS message BEFORE shutting down the socket, to tell the other end that the TLS connection

Re: pickle alternative

2005-06-19 Thread Paul Rubin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think you should implement it as a C extension and/or write a PEP. This has been an unfilled need in Python for a while (SF RFE 467384). I've submitted a proto PEP to python-dev. It coming up against many of the same objections to the RFE. See also bug# 471893

Re: pickle alternative

2005-06-19 Thread Paul Rubin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: See also bug# 471893 where jhylton suggests a PEP. Something really ought to be done about this. I know this, you know this... I don't understand why the suggestion is meeting so much resistance. This is something I needed for a real world system which moves

Re: pickle alternative

2005-06-19 Thread Paul Rubin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If anyone is interested, I've implemented a faster and more space efficient gherkin with a few bug fixes. It would be nice if you just posted the PEP. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Want to learn a language - is Python right?

2005-06-20 Thread Paul Rubin
Aziz McTang [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1) Generate web pages This one's fairly obvious maybe. You might find this easier to do with PHP. Python is better in a deep way, but for web pages, that advantage only becomes real when you're doing complicated sites. Simple stuff is easier to do with

Re: Avoiding deadlocks in concurrent programming

2005-06-22 Thread Paul Rubin
Eloff [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have a shared series of objects in memory that may be 100MB. Often to perform a task for a client several of these objects must be used. Do you mean a few records of 20+ MB each, or millions of records of a few dozen bytes, or what? However imagine what

Re: Optimize a cache

2005-06-22 Thread Paul Rubin
Florian Lindner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What possible you see to optimize this lookup? Or anything else you see to make it better? Use the heapq module. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Optimize a cache

2005-06-22 Thread Paul Rubin
Florian Lindner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What possible you see to optimize this lookup? Or anything else you see to make it better? Do you need to update the timestamp of cached entries when you access them? If yes, use the heapq module. If no, is the cache something different from a simple

Re: pickle broken: can't handle NaN or Infinity under win32

2005-06-22 Thread Paul Rubin
Scott David Daniels [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Negative 0 isn't a NaN, it's just negative 0. Right, but it is hard to construct in standard C. Huh? It's just a hex constant. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: pickle broken: can't handle NaN or Infinity under win32

2005-06-22 Thread Paul Rubin
Scott David Daniels [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Negative 0 isn't a NaN, it's just negative 0. Right, but it is hard to construct in standard C. Huh? It's just a hex constant. Well, -0.0 doesn't work, and (double)0x8000 doesn't work, and I think you have to use quirks of a compiler

Re: Avoiding deadlocks in concurrent programming

2005-06-22 Thread Paul Rubin
Eloff [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If the 100 threads are blocked waiting for the lock, they shouldn't get awakened until the lock is released. So this approach is reasonable if you can minimize the lock time for each transaction. Now that is interesting, because if 100 clients have to go

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