Bonsoir,
Pour réduire le nombre d'issues une traque de 24 heures aura lieu sur IRC à
partir de demain 15 juillet à 11 heures CEST (heure d'été de Paris).
Les détails de fonctionnement sont dans les mails joints.
Bien entendu c'est ouvert à tous, ça se passe en anglais et on n'est pas
obligé de rester 24 heures.
La raison des 24 heures continues est de pallier le problème du décalage
horaire quand on cherche à réunir des contributeurs localisés sur tous les
continents.
Il s'agit d'une première session après un essai décevant avec une réunion irc
de durée plus classique.
N'hésitez pas à participer si vous le souhaitez.
irc://irc.freenode.net/
salon : #qa.openoffice.org
Mardi 15 juillet 11h00 CEST
Bonne soirée.
JBF
--
Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents.
--- Begin Message ---
Hello, all!
First of all, thanks to Raphael for forcing the reduction of unconfirmed
issues.
I spoke with Thorsten Ziehm and Oliver Crämer about this (and the poorly
frequented last try in IRC).
What I can see is several aspects:
- several people from all over the planet are willing to join
- time zones look like a big hurdle
- How to "organize"? Wiki and IRC?
I would like to "just do it", starting next week.
The freenode channel #qa.openoffice.org will be the one.
We shall all be aware that the huge amount of issues will not get
processed within one session, be it 12 or 24 hours long.
So we will consider "repeating events" with different focus.
Some thoughts about a possible "focus":
(1) Unconfirmed issues:
The valid ones (reproducible in current Dev build) can be a duplicate.
Finding duplicates is not too eeasy, some hide behind "poor"
descriptions, wrong set flags, you-name-it. Some descriptions are poor,
others perfect, some might need further information from the submitter.
(2) Verified, integrated, not-yet-closed issues
These were verified in a CWS and if all worked well, the fixes "made it"
into the master. But some do not, for whatever reason. These seemingly
resolved issues still MAY be showstoppers if they are not fixed.
(3) Applications (Draw, Impress, Calc, Writer, Base, Framework)
I do QA for Writer and do not have much clue about state-of-the-art
Spreadsheet or Base things. OK, "Load bugdoc and crash" is always easy :-)
So it makes sense to have "Specialists" available if questions arise.
The same applies for System-connected issues (KDE or Gnome stuff, 32 or
64 bit system thingies and so on. If certain systems are required, some
participants can not comment. On the other hand, an IRC meeting with
many people surely brings several systems into the race to get things
nailed down.
I advocate a 24-hrs meeting. This means that several Sun Hamburg folks
(QA and Dev) will go home and sleep in between. But I know that we have
"early birds" as well as "night owls" as well here at Sun as in the
World outside. I believe that Sun QA could cover 08:00 AM to 02:00 AM
(CEST/German time) with at least one "Insider" awake.
And if there are unanswered questions from the night before, the log
will keep them. Comments within the issues will stay anyway.
People with language barriers are welcome to join into "sub-chats" in
whatever system. But htere should be at leasst one to "speak up for
them" in English in the "main chat".
It does not have to be perfect the first time. So we shoud get this
started by next week and not spend too much time in preperation
discussions. If we don't learn from what we do, we should not do things
at all :-)
What about Tuesday, July 15th 11:00 to Wednesday, July 16th 11:00 AM CEST?
Focus and participants yet to be named.
Comments welcome!
Regards,
Stefan Baltzer
QA Writer
Raphael Bircher wrote:
Am 27.06.2008 um 09:39 schrieb Thorsten Ziehm:
Hi Raphael,
I support your idea to work on the unconfirmed issues. The number
increases in the past months to 1447 issues (from 1097 in Dec. '07).
The QA team inside Sun discussed the past weeks how to increase the work
of the community in this area. Oliver Crämer started with one IRC chat
some weeks ago, which wasn't a full success. But he collected some
feedback and the idea of a IRC chat on a regular base with an agenda
with the key items to work on in that meeting.
We took a look also in the Lightning QA community by Mozilla. They have
biweekly testing days, where they are working on issues like
'unconfirmed' in on IRC. The chats are open for more than 12 hours
where one or more specialist are available for questions. But that QA
community have the same problem as we have. Sometime many people in the
chats and in the past weeks, the number is very less - it's summer for
most of us, we think ;-)
The idea with a wiki page is on the first look very simple. But how to
handle more than 50 issues on such a list?! Perhaps keywords can help
here. Then you can query for the keywords and you will get a list of the
issues very easily.
It isn't easy for me or somebody in my team to organize such IRC meeting
by ourself. So are you willing to organize and manage such chats with
us and perhaps others?
We will make a 24 houers unconfirmed hunting meeting ;-)
Thorsten
PS.: To all : Please do not stop working on 'unconfirmed' issues until a
final plan about regular based IRC meeting is done.
Raphael Bircher schrieb:
Hello at all
Ours IssueTracker has a load of issue with Status unconfirmed. Many
of this issue are maybe no issues. I propose to make a clean up team.
Wat you think about this idea?
I think, we can make same clean up rounds on the IRC Channels. The
problem is, for many issues we need help from other devs. On IRC we
can talk live about the problems
A other idea is to create a wiki page. We can put the problem issues
on it, and other devs can hav a look on it. If the Issue is edited,
we can remuve it from the Wiki page.
I will ask now, wat you think about the ideas. Are you willing to
help? Thanks a load
Greetings Raphael
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi!
Thank you for the positive feedback and for forwarding this to other
"places that potentially interested people read".
For those about to join:
I recommend to have at least two Office versions available:
(1) OOo 2.4.1
To verify what worked or did not work in the last "stable" version,
needed to set the "regression" keyword appropriately.
Download here:
http://download.openoffice.org/other.html
(2) OOo DEV300_m24
This is the latest build on the way to OOo 3.0 final. It has some
changes that are NOT in OOo 3.0 Beta2 so Beta2 (BEB300_m3) is not the
best reference for "What we currently work on".
Download here:
http://download.openoffice.org/680/index.html
We will start on Tuesday at 11:00 AM CEST
The session shall continute for 24 hours.
The chat shall take place at
irc://irc.freenode.net/
in the group #qa.openoffice.org
My Sun QA colleagues will try to be present as much as possible.
Some will stay late, others join early in the morning.
We will not have specialists for every questions that might arise (some
need developers epertise) but we will try to "find ways" to contact
people that can not join the chat itself for whatever reason (some call
it "work" :-)
The focus shall be on processing "Unconfirmed" issues and "Fixed
Verified" issues.
I will send the relevant query links at the beginnig of the meeting.
And re-sent them if needed.
If you are already curious, please have a look at Thorsten Ziem's blog.
He wrote about the current state of Issues on Friday, 11th of July.
Link:
http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/status_of_unconfirmed_defects_in
Further questions?
Feel free to ask!
Regards,
Stefan Baltzer, QA Writer
Stefan Baltzer wrote:
Hello, all!
First of all, thanks to Raphael for forcing the reduction of unconfirmed
issues.
I spoke with Thorsten Ziehm and Oliver Crämer about this (and the poorly
frequented last try in IRC).
What I can see is several aspects:
- several people from all over the planet are willing to join
- time zones look like a big hurdle
- How to "organize"? Wiki and IRC?
I would like to "just do it", starting next week.
The freenode channel #qa.openoffice.org will be the one.
We shall all be aware that the huge amount of issues will not get
processed within one session, be it 12 or 24 hours long.
So we will consider "repeating events" with different focus.
Some thoughts about a possible "focus":
(1) Unconfirmed issues:
The valid ones (reproducible in current Dev build) can be a duplicate.
Finding duplicates is not too eeasy, some hide behind "poor"
descriptions, wrong set flags, you-name-it. Some descriptions are poor,
others perfect, some might need further information from the submitter.
(2) Verified, integrated, not-yet-closed issues
These were verified in a CWS and if all worked well, the fixes "made it"
into the master. But some do not, for whatever reason. These seemingly
resolved issues still MAY be showstoppers if they are not fixed.
(3) Applications (Draw, Impress, Calc, Writer, Base, Framework)
I do QA for Writer and do not have much clue about state-of-the-art
Spreadsheet or Base things. OK, "Load bugdoc and crash" is always easy :-)
So it makes sense to have "Specialists" available if questions arise.
The same applies for System-connected issues (KDE or Gnome stuff, 32 or
64 bit system thingies and so on. If certain systems are required, some
participants can not comment. On the other hand, an IRC meeting with
many people surely brings several systems into the race to get things
nailed down.
I advocate a 24-hrs meeting. This means that several Sun Hamburg folks
(QA and Dev) will go home and sleep in between. But I know that we have
"early birds" as well as "night owls" as well here at Sun as in the
World outside. I believe that Sun QA could cover 08:00 AM to 02:00 AM
(CEST/German time) with at least one "Insider" awake.
And if there are unanswered questions from the night before, the log
will keep them. Comments within the issues will stay anyway.
People with language barriers are welcome to join into "sub-chats" in
whatever system. But htere should be at leasst one to "speak up for
them" in English in the "main chat".
It does not have to be perfect the first time. So we shoud get this
started by next week and not spend too much time in preperation
discussions. If we don't learn from what we do, we should not do things
at all :-)
What about Tuesday, July 15th 11:00 to Wednesday, July 16th 11:00 AM CEST?
Focus and participants yet to be named.
Comments welcome!
Regards,
Stefan Baltzer
QA Writer
Raphael Bircher wrote:
Am 27.06.2008 um 09:39 schrieb Thorsten Ziehm:
Hi Raphael,
I support your idea to work on the unconfirmed issues. The number
increases in the past months to 1447 issues (from 1097 in Dec. '07).
The QA team inside Sun discussed the past weeks how to increase the work
of the community in this area. Oliver Crämer started with one IRC chat
some weeks ago, which wasn't a full success. But he collected some
feedback and the idea of a IRC chat on a regular base with an agenda
with the key items to work on in that meeting.
We took a look also in the Lightning QA community by Mozilla. They have
biweekly testing days, where they are working on issues like
'unconfirmed' in on IRC. The chats are open for more than 12 hours
where one or more specialist are available for questions. But that QA
community have the same problem as we have. Sometime many people in the
chats and in the past weeks, the number is very less - it's summer for
most of us, we think ;-)
The idea with a wiki page is on the first look very simple. But how to
handle more than 50 issues on such a list?! Perhaps keywords can help
here. Then you can query for the keywords and you will get a list of the
issues very easily.
It isn't easy for me or somebody in my team to organize such IRC meeting
by ourself. So are you willing to organize and manage such chats with
us and perhaps others?
We will make a 24 houers unconfirmed hunting meeting ;-)
Thorsten
PS.: To all : Please do not stop working on 'unconfirmed' issues until a
final plan about regular based IRC meeting is done.
Raphael Bircher schrieb:
Hello at all
Ours IssueTracker has a load of issue with Status unconfirmed. Many
of this issue are maybe no issues. I propose to make a clean up
team. Wat you think about this idea?
I think, we can make same clean up rounds on the IRC Channels. The
problem is, for many issues we need help from other devs. On IRC we
can talk live about the problems
A other idea is to create a wiki page. We can put the problem issues
on it, and other devs can hav a look on it. If the Issue is edited,
we can remuve it from the Wiki page.
I will ask now, wat you think about the ideas. Are you willing to
help? Thanks a load
Greetings Raphael
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