My observation from the outside (not really involved in building/loading
questions):
- There was a lot of help offered on the mailing list by the Qooxdoo
developers to help you come up with an environment for your special
applications that is compatible with the Qooxdoo build system (and thus
will not "break" with new versions of Qooxdoo or at least would probably
get you a lot of help again if something needed to be adapted in the
future.
- The responses as I hear them are "this is no good", "this is not
possible", "this won't work for my special setup". In addition to some "I
don't like Python" remarks (btw, I like "make source" a lot better than
"./generate.py source" myself, but I guess I can always put a Makefile
there doing just that ...).
- What I don't hear is "ok, here is what I understood from your suggestions:
..... ", "This is what I tried to do: .....", "The problem I encounter is
....", "What can I do to about that?"
The way this discussion is running right now it is very interesting from a
inter-personal communication view point. Other than that, I fear it is
starting to get rather boring (or potentially ugly).
Of course, there is nothing wrong with somebody deciding to go his/her own
way with whatever custom-build system they like best. I just wouldn't expect
this to hold further than may be a couple of minor revisions to the Qooxdoo
framework.
And looking at the latest release, I guess there is no such thing as a
"minor update" in the Qooxdoo world ... ;-) ... very impressive indeed.
Cheers,
Fritz
On Sat, 7 Mar 2009, Jean-Baptiste BRIAUD -- Novlog wrote:
+1, nothing else to add.
On 6 Mar 2009, at 23:46, Petr Kobalí?ek wrote:
I have only one thing to say:)
There are developers (including me and Jean) that wants to use qooxdoo
without python build tools (I have python, I'm building qxbuild:) ). I
think that we shouldn't talk about why they needs to do it, but we
should talk about how it's possible and how it's portable to do it.
I'm talking about portability because currently qxbuild is broken and
I must write new loader for it (and I hope that version 0.8.3 will not
be broken again).
I think that there will be always topics about this, because there are
people that needs it. Disagring with people that needs this can cause
that they will choose different framework (for example smartclient)
and I must ask question, is this what qooxdoo developers and community
wants?
So, qooxdoo build tools are excellent to minimize application size,
but qxbuild means about 1MB file (that's not much compared to other
GUI frameworks) and if anybody wants to write application by including
this file instead of building own build version I'm respecting that.
Cheers
- Petr
2009/3/6 thron7 <thomas.herchenroe...@1und1.de>:
Jean-Baptiste,
I got my answer : as it is needed to use the py machinery each time a
class is added, I won't be able to use it because this happen at
runtime for me. It would be fine with the create-application.py as this
one is needed only once, but I can't cope with generate.py as
apparently, this one is needed during the dev life cycle witch again
happen at runtime for me.
Extracted from : http://qooxdoo.org/documentation/0.8/helloworld
"To see the changes, you just have to refresh your document in the
browser, e.g. by hitting F5. During development there usually is no
need to re-generate this so-called “source” version of your
app. Only if you later introduce new classes or if dependencies between
classes change, you would have to regenerate your app. To do so,
execute generate.py source-all (to inlcude all source classes) or
generate.py source (to only include the required classes) before
refreshing your browser. "
Maybe it helps if I elaborate a little on the build system. The Hello
World tutorial has a certain target audience in mind: developers that
start a fresh RIA, who prefer an integrated coupling between their own
custom code and qooxdoo's framework classes. They do so by working with
a "source" version of their app until they are satisfied and create the
"build" version for deployment.
For the "source" version qooxdoo's build system basically detects the
list of all needed .js files and creates uri references to them which
are loaded once the application is started in the browser. But the build
system can do much more: E.g. it can create uri references to *all* the
classes in the framework (not only the classes needed by the particular
application). Or, rather than uri references, it can actually draw in
the Javascript code of the various classes into a single file, sorted in
the right order.
Now, this should start to ring a bell with you, since this is much more
what you want. Needless to say that you could use such a framework code
file for *any* qooxdoo application, since it includes all framework
classes. As it includes all framework classes, you don't have to
re-generate it if you add new application code, since all dependencies
to the framework are already fulfilled.
The build system is flexible enough to cater for many use cases. The
"all-framework-classes-in-a-single-file" is just not the one that is
featured most or is especially prominent.
HTH,
Thomas
--
Oetiker+Partner AG tel: +41 62 775 9903 (direct)
Fritz Zaucker +41 62 775 9900 (switch board)
Aarweg 15 +41 79 675 0630 (mobile)
CH-4600 Olten fax: +41 62 775 9905
Schweiz web: www.oetiker.ch
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