[RE-wrenches] Array Grounding Ailments (was WEEB)

Andrew, At some point when that tech has to start pulling up modules, he also is going to have to loosen the ground lug. I don't see the situation where we would loosen all the mounting hardware, and not the ground lug. (I've usually seen solid #6 with the Ilsco lugs, so there's very little wig

Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB

Andrew: You make a very good point in 2) below, however there is one step missing: If a ground fault is occurring, the technician will eventually need to look under modules to find the fault. This is the reason the top-down clips will be loosened. If the module is grounded with #6 wire, th

Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of the WEEB THREAD

Please STOP using this subject heading. It is disrespectful to one manufacturer and is annoying. Call it Array Grounding or anything but this. Bill. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options &

Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of the Rooftop Solar Tech

Andrew, You make a decent argument, but it is flawed. A tech working on a faulted array removing modules without disabling them is likely to be injured whether or not there is a lug or a clip. The circuit must be disabled before taking loose anything. Not an easy task, but necessary. The argume

Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB

2 points: 1) For the sake of clarity: there are WEEB LUGSand WEEB CLIPS . WEEB Lugs are comprised of very robust tin-plated copper lugs, stainless steel hardware, and the actual WEEB, which

[RE-wrenches] GEC for Enphase inverters

Friends: According to the 2005 NEC 250.64(C), the GEC for an AC system needs to be continuous without splices unless they are irreversible. I am not clear where this conductor starts and ends. Is it from the ground buss in a sub-panel to the disconnect switch on the roof, or to each inverter

Re: [RE-wrenches] Module Ground (was The Demise of Reason)

Owing to a strong lack of political correctness, I would point out the obvious; Underwriters Labs decisions are strongly influenced by industries that stand to financially benefit from UL rule making. Those component manufacturers pay a lot to have their products listed. Who among us has not grimac

Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB

Hopefully any crew installing PV, and familiar with this debate (which they should be) can easily distinguish between the GBL-4 and the GBL-4DBT. The weight difference is quite noticeable. If it feels light for its size, it's aluminum, dont use it!!! If it has some distinct weight to it, the

[RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB

I ran into this problem last year, when NJCEP failed six of my systems for using the WEEB clip against Sunpower's bulletin. Needless to say I was a bit surprised to be getting this information from NJ and not from Sunpower themselves. I called up Sunpower and talked to the guy who wrote the bulle

Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of Reason

Bill, I just was paraphrasing a memorable quote from the movie Casablanca (1942): Captain Renault (played by Claude Rains): "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!" Sorry for misleading you. - Peter Peter T. Parrish

[RE-wrenches] Module Ground (was The Demise of Reason)

Bill, You and John Wiles have shown leadership on the module grounding issue. It would be good to know who at UL is preventing a universal solution so that this issue can be resolved at the highest level once and for all. What do you suggest for the course of action? Joel Davidson ___

Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of Reason, SunPower and WEEBs

Peter, The document that you have was correct at the time.  Then, in December of 2008, SunPower issued a tech bulletin which stated that SunPower modules were no longer listed for use with "grounding clips".   This bulletin states that lay-in lugs are the only grounding option available that w

Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of Reason, SunPower and WEEBs

Carl, I am having difficulty following what you have been told. I am in possession of the SunPower SM System Planning and Assembly -- Installation Manual. Copyright 2007. In this document they specify either the UGC-1 (looks like WEEB technology) or the UGL (looks like an ILSCO GBL-4DBT). The UGC-

[RE-wrenches] WEEBs, codes, and standards

Wrenches, Please allow me to add my views. The NEC clearly spells out acceptance of the WEEB. In addition, the WEEB parts are listed to the standard for grounding and bonding, ANSI/UL 467, by Intertek ETL. The problem is that some are not satisfied that this meets all the needs of an outdoor

[RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB

Hi There, This from the Wiley website is an interesting summary. I am assuming that this is an up to date comment. Brian Teitelbaum (AEE Solar Tech Rep) has authored the following guide to one of the most debated topics in the

Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset

Hi Matt: Thanks for your opinions. Just a couple comments. 1. Azimuths. We fixed this issue some time ago. 2. Too many steps. Except for large rooftop installations, most sites can really be analyzed with a good eye and a compass. The purpose of a s

[RE-wrenches] The Demise of Reason, SunPower and WEEBs

One point of clarification regarding SunPower Corp. and WEEBs having just had communication with them today on this subject. SunPower has yet to officially approve/sign off on the use of WEEBs with their metal-framed modules. They have been exploring the issue but have yet to give their seal of a

Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of Reason

Hi Bill; 690.43 seems to practically spell out acceptance of the WEEB. and then it cross references article 250.136A. 250.136 EQUIPMENT CONSIDERED GROUNDED "(A)Electrical equipment secured to and in electrical contact with a metal rack or structure provided for its support" (Is it

Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB

Perhaps in the future, we can go with a composite frame and remove the grounding challenge altogether? Carbon fiber would be spectacular, minus the cost. From: R Ray Walters To: RE-wrenches Sent: Mon, September 13, 2010 7:14:36 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] T

Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB

I didn't do the original install, and I couldn't ID the lug because of the corrosion. I believe everyone is correct that this isn't the DBT rated lug, though. Another reason to use the WEEB: a crew can't accidentally install the wrong (but almost identical, when new) lug. I'm sure the non-DBT

Re: [RE-wrenches] Module level MPPT

Bill: You will need to install MPPT trackers from TIGO and SOLAR MAGIC on all of your modules, and not just the string in question... as far as I have been told. I have asked both outfits the same question - and was interested in SunMizer for this very reason. But SunMizer seems to be goi

Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of Reason

Peter, No tone was intended. The theme of your post was good, but the subject was misleading. The fact that you were shocked twice by my questioning your subject means that you misunderstood the tone of my questioning of your subject title. I misunderstood your post and reacted to a very negative

Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB

Ray, Your picture is clearly one of an aluminum lug with a steel screw. I would agree that this lug is unacceptable, but this is NOT the lug which is commonly used and has been used for many years. While you apparently are infatuated by the WEEB device, not all of us are. Could you please do us

[RE-wrenches] Module level MPPT

Gentlemen and Ladies, I'm designing a 4KW res system which has limited roof space and would like to use a certain number of panels to satisfy power requirements and inverter voltage needs. However, this would necessitate placing 2-3-maybe 4 PVs (in one string, of two string total) in a

Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of Reason

Bill (and Chris and Tim), "Be a little bit more careful in your choice of subjects..."? I am shocked, shocked that you would use that tone with me. If you would re-read my post, I talked about three things: (1) SunPower's no longer supporting the WEEB clip technology and regressing to the ILS

Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB

There is an issue with Sharp modules using Weeb clips also. They are not specified for grounding in their manuals and UL has not tested Sharp modules with the clips. For now, they are not acceptable. I don't know how many brands of modules are effected by this ruling. Drake At 04:48 PM 9/

Re: [RE-wrenches] The AC neutral "bonds" to earth at only one point, but...

Hi Mick, Take a look at NEC250.32 TerryQuoting Mick Abraham : Greetings, Wrenches~ I'm advising some clients on an existing off grid power system. They have inverters and multiple AC sub-panels which feed several different structures. The various structures have their own breaker panels. The p