I am forwarding this answer from Karen Crook to Don Clarke to the list because it bounced for being too long. This, despite me asking for extraneous stuff to be cut from the bottom of messages. Bounced mail goes to my old address (I haven't figured out how to change that yet) so this is a little out of date. (In more ways than one.) Trudy From: "Karen Crook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [recoznet2] has the man no shame? Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:35:28 +1100 Reconciliation is where we take away all the specific subsidies and start giving to people for credit of their situations rather than race. There are all colours out there on the streets homeless, on drugs or drinking too much Does that mean that we would also take away subsidies from farmers, mining conglomerates, special 'isolation' subsidies, HECS subsidies for students, single parent subsidies, parental allowance subsidies, day care subsidies, the car industry subsidies, the subsidies to the arts and tax breaks, special allowances and tax breaks for industries to keep their businesses in certain areas, unemployment benefits to those who have the money to support themselves, pensioner subsidies, special shipping allowances, the subsidies for foodstuffs and other items that are given to isolated areas, private schools - I could go on ad infinitum. Many of these subsidies are not given to people 'for credit of their situations' as you put it. But just you try to do that Karen. There would be lynch mobs at your house - mainly from upper-middle class socio-economic mums and dads, rich industrialists, rich cow-cockies and parents of kids from rich schools. In fact I would like to see that happen. I believe that indigenous peoples would actually get more - and many deserve more. >No because as I said, they should only be receiving it for their particular circumstance, and these >subsidies are for particular circumstance which assist people! ************************** But just you try to do that Karen. >Like I'm a real threat!! *************************** I believe that indigenous peoples would actually get more - and many deserve more. >Then tell me how does an Aboriginal woman of about 50yrs old with all adult children living away >from home, working for the Government in a very well-paid job get a financial grant to compete in a >government sporting competition in another State and then stay at a 5 star hotel???? I personally >know this woman and she told me this herself. And the excuses used on the application also were >over-rated and exaggerated - also admitted to by herself. She just thought what the hell, they'll give >me the money. How is this fair? She has a great job, like the rest of us, yet received well over >$1,500 to attend. It's not like she couldn't afford to go herself if she'd saved. If you can't go, you >can't go-just like everyone else. But not all of us can just apply for the funds! See, it is this sort of >thing that causes people such as myself to get disheartened by unfairness. People using their >colour for advantage and then crying foul about racism. It's hypocrisy at its best. ****************************** The people who are stopping Australia from being 'Australian' are the non-Aboriginal people who still treat indigenous peoples as second class citizens. Australia should be one nation (no pun intended) but it will never be so until the dominant culture comes to term with its own inbuilt racism and realises that ALL should be given a fair go. It is your culture that is saying this land is 'ours' and not yours. >What about those Aboriginals who bash their children, rape their wives and daughters, drink >themselves into oblivion, kill one another and disrespect their own people by hurting one another? >They treat themselves as second class citizens sometimes and make their situations even worse >by doing this. I do not agree with any sort of violence or bad treatment and find this appalling. So >don't go blaming non-Aboriginals because there is plenty of second class treatment happening from >within. So exactly what do you mean by being given a fair go? ***************************** Try telling that to any black person who dares to venture out of his neighbourhood. Try telling that to a black kid who is going to visit a friend who lives in Double Bay in NSW, who is walking along the street to his friends and is pulled up three times by the police who question what he is doing there. Would a white kid get the same treatment? >Try also telling that to the women who are too afraid of walking out on the street after dark, even >just for exercise, because of the fear of rape by a man or groups of men regadless of colour. >Maybe the police question them three times because they know him, or his friends or he's acting >suspicious. >When did you ever wear a police uniform? If they didn't ask and something happened the public >would be down their throat for not protecting the community!!!!! It's a catch-22 situation most times. >Sometimes they just ask because they are doing their jobs. >A few years back a police officer friend was off-duty and out nightclubbing. He needed some more >cash and left the club to walk up the city's mall to the ATM. While on his way, he was surrounded >by a group of young Aboriginal men. They began bashing him and tried to steal his watch and >wallet etc. They didn't know he was a cop until later on. They did him over pretty bad. >During the scuffle he managed to get in a few punches to try and protect himself otherwise they >would have killed him. He landed a punch. But guess what? That little creep then laid charges >against the off-duty officer for punching him! How is that fair? They were belting the crap out of him. >I would have done exactly the same thing.Thankfully the system threw it out. As far as I'm >concerned the little buggar deserved what he got. ************************** Some time ago Tim Fischer stated that he thought the Japanese people should apologize to the Australian people for what they did in a war fifty years ago. Not much flak from white Australia for that sentiment. >I didn't agree with him on this one either! ************************** Reconciliation should mean that we all come together in a spirit of respect for each other and work together to make this nation what is should and could be. A nation of one people who respect each other's differences, who take each other's hand in friendship and trust that we are all working for the same thing for ALL Australians. It is about righting past injustices and working with each other to ensure that there is true justice for all for the present and the future. It is about being one and celebrating the diversity in that 'one'. Allowing each other to become the very best we can become and each assisting the other to reach that goal with love, respect, dignity and true brotherhood (sorry feminists). It is about correcting the imbalance in this country. Among other things. >I agree with you on these!! *************************** It is a race issue because more Aboriginal people end up on the wrong side of the justice system. This can be put down to many things but here in NSW it has been shown that the police are much more likely to take the more extreme option with Aboriginal people who come into custody than with people from other ethnicities. >A lot of people end up on the wrong side of the justice system, the rest of us don't because we know the difference between right and wrong. ******** "...has been shown that the police are much more likely to take the more extreme option with Aboriginal people..." >What exactly do you mean by this? **************************** Because you do not have black coppers or screws or governments making the laws, beating them or murdering them. It can only be racist when race becomes an issue such as when little or no regard is made to issues that may affect the imprisonment of the imprisoned. When culture or tradition is not taken into account. The other point is that there was a Royal Commission which set out over 300 recommendations which all governments stated they would implement. One of the main points was the elimination of hanging points in all gaols and police lock-ups and detention centres. This is comparatively easy to do. But, even after all this time they have not done so, and they still build prisons with hanging points so obviously there. Why? Because the white man's law - the law you laud and praise - does not give a stiff shit about the human and social rights of inmates. >Check out the new Brisbane City Watchhouse. A modern slick building of technology built to the >standards of the Recommendations. No, obviously they didn't give a stiff shit so they wasted their >money building it anyway!!!!!!!!!! >A lot of prisons and watchhouses were very plain designs and didn't have or use the modern >technology like today. Back then they had bars on window, but today they don't need them. They >just get air-conditioning. >Laud and praise? Yes, because that is the law, what I have grown up with and respect and abide >by to not only try and protect myself but the lives of others. **************************** But having said that; any (once again) small amount of research will show you that ALL deaths in custody are deplored by the various Deaths in Custody groups around Australia - but once again you have not bothered to do the research to find this out. Some of the groups are even called 'Deaths in Custody Watch Committee"'s, not a mention of black in their names - even a cursory reading of news would have pointed this out to you. And they come out against ALL deaths in custody and the stupidity of the various governments whose policies allow deaths in custody to occur. >I know the groups thank you, I'm just saying when another person hangs themselves in jail it's >usually because they had some sort of mental or personality problem. We can't always blame jail, >prison or detention centres for someone hanging themselves. There is duty of care but prisoners >cannot be watched 24 hours a day - they would consider that an invasion of privacy!! ***********************************8 A suggestion. Get yourself into some group that regularly goes to prisons or detention centres to visit with inmates and detainees. Talk to some of them. Ask them questions. Find out the real person instead of the one the media and the government brain washes you with. Find out that they are real people, with wives, husbands, mothers and fathers. Then let me know if your black and white view of the world is still the same - or would you then be asking questions that may be because YOU really want to know. >Talking with them will not change my opinion on anything. They have committed a crime and >deserve to pay the price for it. It's called being made to take responsibility for your actions - and >this should happen whether you are black, white, orange, yellow, red or purple!!! We cannot let >people get away with breakign the law otheriwse what sort of a society would we have then? And >you are already worried about this one we have now????? It doesn't matter that they are real >people with wives, husbands, mothers and fathers - because so to do their victims. I support the >victims not the offenders. Offenders have a choice in breaking the law, their victims don't have any >choice about becoming victims! ------------------------------------------------------ RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words: unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
