demics
Subject: Re: Protestants and non-Protestants
On Tuesday, March 8, 2005, at 08:01 AM, Brad Pardee wrote:
In the end, if the government prohibits what my faith commands or
commands what my faith prohibits, does it really make a difference whether the
government was openly hos
On Tuesday, March 8, 2005, at 08:01 AM, Brad Pardee wrote:
In the end, if the government prohibits what my faith commands or commands what my faith prohibits, does it really make a difference whether the government was openly hostile or simply didn't care?
To you? Apparently not.
To the law an
Good question. I think it doesn't matter in practice, for the moment, but may
in the longer term. That is, indifference may simply be a sign of lack of
reflection on the matter, and leaves open the possibility of changing policy or
interpretations by persuasion; if hostility is the motivation,
I wonder, though, to the believer (in any faith), if the ultimate effect is
any different whether the government is actively hostile or simply
indifferent. I think Stephen Carter's book, "The Culture of Disbelief",
gives some good examples (including non-evangelical Christian examples) of
peop
Alan:
I think I agree with everything that you say. I was not trying to make an
argument, but simply stating what I thought was an obvious fact -- that many
people think government is hostile to religion. (I don't think I said that
"most Americans" think that, or that "most Americans" are hos
Why isn't the
hostility charge simply a strategic means to put one's
opponent on the defensive? Granted many people feel hostility.
But feeling hostility and judging that one's opponent actually is hostile are
two different things. With intimate and deeply felt matters such as
reli
Richard,
I understand that some religious people think that government today is
hostile to religion, but I think this is a singularly unhelpful way to
understand current church-state issues - and it tells us very little
about the actual relationship between government and religion in our socie
All the active movement I see are from religious groups pushing to establish religion by putting their religion in the public face or demanding that their religion be front and center rather than simply be accommodated.
Of course there are too many instances of teachers and principals on school bo
I think it's fairly safe to say that Tocueville would not recognize the role
religion plays, or doesn't play, in modern America. That there is no active
governmental movement that is hostile to religion would surprise quite a few
people, on the left and right.
-- Original Message -
Darrell
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March
05, 2005 6:40 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Law &
Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: Re: Protestants and
non-Protestants
Most of the attempts to formalize school prayer took
place after 1945.
Certainly there i
It seems to me that by the standards deTocqueville used, and especially by the standards cited by Justice Brewer's opinion in Holy Trinity, we are much more tolerant of religious _expression_ than in the past. For example we now have "In God We Trust" on our coins, and also as an official motto of
>Does it matter that the government is not actually openly hostile to
>religion? Or is the relevant inquiry really "is seen by many"?
>
>Steven Jamar
Yes, it would matter, if it were true; but that is a debate for another
setting. Here the relevant question, though, is what motivates many reli
Does it matter that the government is not actually openly hostile to religion? Or is the relevant inquiry really "is seen by many"?
Steven Jamar
On Saturday, March 5, 2005, at 09:12 AM, Richard Dougherty wrote:
Well, yes, but not in a political order where the government -- especially the judi
Well, yes, but not in a political order where the government -- especially the
judiciary -- is seen by many as openly hostile to religion; this is a very
different America from the one Tocqueville observed.
Richard Dougherty
>And isn't that exactly what deTocqueville said he found?
>
>Ed Darr
And isn't that exactly what deTocqueville said he found?
Ed Darrell
Dallas"A.E. Brownstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Marci, of course, is more than capable of speaking for herself. But I would think that the reference to religious "intensity of belief" that thrives in an environment of religiou
Marci, of course, is more than capable of speaking for herself. But I would
think that the reference to religious "intensity of belief" that thrives in
an environment of religious neutrality may relate to the inspiration and
energy many religious groups experience in a regime of religious
volu
Tom: I like the term, and I don't think it's so ugly as you suggest.
Marci: Do you think it is empirically true that, as you say, "The more
the government is constrained to be neutral with respect to religion over
the years, the more diversity and intensity of belief this society expresses"?
I
Tom-- Thanks very
much for your thoughtful answer. I completely agree with you on the
first point. As a matter of fact, I think there is very little
likelihood that this society can be secularized by government or any other
entity. The more the government is constrained to be neut
Very well said Tom.
-Original Message-
From: Berg, Thomas C.
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005
11:25 AM
To: 'Law & Religion issues for
Law Academics'
Subject: RE: Protestants and
non-Protestants
Marci – Maybe I
should be proud
]
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005
8:53 PM
To: religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu
Subject: Re: Protestants and
non-Protestants
Tom--
What is "artificial secularization"? I've never heard that term
before.
Marci
In a
message dated 3/2/2005 8:10:
Tom-- What is "artificial secularization"? I've never heard
that term before.
Marci
In a message dated 3/2/2005 8:10:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
think
that we avert our eyes to reality if we don't acknowledge
thattraditionalist believers from diffe
To follow up on Eugene's point:
Historically, most of the attempts to obtain public funding of religious
education have been by Catholics. A lot of people (not including me) have
seen such attempts as serious assaults on the religious liberty that is
maintained by strong non-Establishment norms.
In response to Steve:
Prayers starting school: It's not much of a live issue now, but when the
original school prayer case came out, a number of Catholic bishops (most
notably Cardinal Spellman of NY) strongly criticized it on the ground that
it would secularize the public schools. On other kin
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