Re: Wait, there's more: "Leading ID think tank calls Dover evolution policy "misguided, " calls for it to be withdrawn"

2004-12-16 Thread Ed Brayton
Francis Beckwith wrote: An explanation doesn't have to be a theory. For example, if I were to claim that "undefined designer operating at some point in the past had to intervene in order for event X to occur since the event X exhibits the characteristics of a designed entity," I am offeri

Re: Wait, there's more: "Leading ID think tank calls Dover evolution policy "misguided, " calls for it to be withdrawn"

2004-12-15 Thread Steven Jamar
That things tend toward disorder does not mean that order cannot and does not arise. Order arises in all physical systems without violating the laws of thermodynamics. The "laws" relating to chemistry and biology also matter as do such laws of physics like quantum dynamics. The specious entropy a

Re: Wait, there's more: "Leading ID think tank calls Dover evolution policy "misguided, " calls for it to be withdrawn"

2004-12-15 Thread Ed Brayton
Alan Leigh Armstrong wrote: There are many holes in the "theory of evolution." Evolution appears to violate the laws of thermodynamics. There are also many things that have been presented as evidence of evolution that have been proven false. No, evolution does not violate the laws of thermodynami

RE: Wait, there's more: "Leading ID think tank calls Dover evolution policy "misguided, " calls for it to be withdrawn"

2004-12-15 Thread A.E. Brownstein
y <http://www.baylor.edu/>http://www.baylor.edu ph: 254.710.6464 <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://francisbeckwith.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sanford Levinson Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 4:16 PM

Re: Wait, there's more: "Leading ID think tank calls Dover evolution policy "misguided, " calls for it to be withdrawn"

2004-12-15 Thread Ed Brayton
Alan Leigh Armstrong wrote: Evolution appears to violate the law of entropy. That is things tend to disorder. (examples: a deck of cards, any teenagers bedroom.) Evolution assumes that things become more ordered. Oi vey. Alan, seriously, this is utter nonsense. The law of entropy does not say th

Re: Wait, there's more: "Leading ID think tank calls Dover evolution policy "misguided, " calls for it to be withdrawn"

2004-12-15 Thread Mark Tushnet
I'm not sure that the following intervention will be productive, but: My sense is that this discussion has reached beyond the limits of list-relevance in its discussions of the substance of ID, evolutionary theory, etc. (I remember enough about physics from college to know that "the law of en

Re: Wait, there's more: "Leading ID think tank calls Dover evolution policy "misguided, " calls for it to be withdrawn"

2004-12-15 Thread Alan Leigh Armstrong
Evolution appears to violate the law of entropy. That is things tend to disorder. (examples: a deck of cards, any teenagers bedroom.) Evolution assumes that things become more ordered. Physicists in industry are not going to spend the time on it because it will not help produce a product. Physi

Re: Wait, there's more: "Leading ID think tank calls Dover evolution policy "misguided, " calls for it to be withdrawn"

2004-12-15 Thread Ed Brayton
Hi Frank, good to "see" you again. I'll be curious to see how the DI handles this if it goes to trial. They are certainly right that the actual policy adopted is incoherent, as I argued in great detail on the Panda's Thumb a couple weeks ago. But if it goes to trial and they are asked to testif

Re: Wait, there's more: "Leading ID think tank calls Dover evolution policy "misguided, " calls for it to be withdrawn"

2004-12-15 Thread Steven Jamar
Sandy, I agree that there is value in multiplicity in the three examples you mention, including critiques of evolution. But there is a difference between evolution (an established fact) and disagreements about the mechanism by which it works. Requiring teaching that evolution is false is not an a

Re: Wait, there's more: "Leading ID think tank calls Dover evolution policy "misguided, " calls for it to be withdrawn"

2004-12-14 Thread Francis Beckwith
On 12/14/04 7:03 PM, "Ed Brayton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Alan Leigh Armstrong wrote: > >> There are many holes in the "theory of evolution." Evolution appears >> to violate the laws of thermodynamics. There are also many things that >> have been presented as evidence of evolution that have

Re: Wait, there's more: "Leading ID think tank calls Dover evolution policy "misguided, " calls for it to be withdrawn"

2004-12-14 Thread Michael MASINTER
How does evolution appear to violate the laws of thermodynamics? And if it does, why haven't physicists figured it out? Michael R. Masinter Visiting Professor of Law On Leave From University of Miami Law School Nova Southeastern University

Re: Wait, there's more: "Leading ID think tank calls Dover evolution policy "misguided, " calls for it to be withdrawn"

2004-12-14 Thread Alan Leigh Armstrong
My training in physics was that a theory is an explanation that fits the facts. For example, the theoretical physicist comes up with a theory. The experimentalist runs the experiment and gives the results to the theoretical physicist who then modifies the theory. There are many holes in the "th

Re: Wait, there's more: "Leading ID think tank calls Dover evolution policy "misguided, " calls for it to be withdrawn"

2004-12-14 Thread Ed Brayton
Title: Message Francis J. Beckwith wrote: I think Sandy's right in this regard: the positions that get labeled "science" are "knowledge" and religion merely "opinion." In one of the ironies of political liberalism (of the Rawlsian sort), these distinctions turn out to be argument-st

RE: Wait, there's more: "Leading ID think tank calls Dover evolution policy "misguided, " calls for it to be withdrawn"

2004-12-14 Thread Francis J. Beckwith
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sanford LevinsonSent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 4:16 PMTo: Law & Religion issues for Law AcademicsSubject: RE: Wait, there's more: "Leading ID think tank calls Dover evolution po

RE: Wait, there's more: "Leading ID think tank calls Dover evolution policy "misguided, " calls for it to be withdrawn"

2004-12-14 Thread Sanford Levinson
I just listened to an NPR segment quoting one of the supporters of ID saying that it is important that students be presented with alternatives to Darwinism.  That is, this is an appeal to the importance of a multiplicity of points of view.  Is there a principled way of deciding when that is